(01-07-2018, 08:00 AM)Utts Wrote: Andy is nowhere near elite. He is an order of magnitude away from elite. Elite QBs take over games, they can put their team on their back (e.g., Rodgers, Wilson). Andy will never do that. Not ever.

The truth is very hard for some to accept.

Closer to elite is not elite...and this is the best argument for Dalton backers...we should be satisfied because on the scale of average some believe Dalton shades slightly to the positive side. Laughable!

We can now add Marcus Mariota and Blake Bortles to the list of playoff-winning quarterbacks.

Ugh.

(01-07-2018, 08:00 AM)Utts Wrote: Elite QBs take over games, they can put their team on their back (e.g., Rodgers, Wilson). Andy will never do that. Not ever.

Funny that you should mention Wilson and Rodgers.

In 2013 Dalton and the Bengals trailed Rodgers Division Champion Packers 30-14 with 5 minutes left in the third quarter.  Dalton then goes 9-10 for 132 yards and 2 tds leading the Bengals to a 34-30 win.

In 2015 Dalton trailed Wilson's Seahawks (who had the #1 defense in the league that year) 24-7 in the 4th quarter.  Dalton goes 13-16 for 135 yds with a passing td and a rushing td.  Bengals score on their last three possessions in regulation and win 27-24 in overtime.

(01-07-2018, 06:18 PM)Big Boss Wrote: We can now add Marcus Mariota and Blake Bortles to the list of playoff-winning quarterbacks.

Ugh.

Yeah, Blake's statline of 12 comp 23 att 52% completion 82 yards 1 TD is something ALL QBs should aspire too.

With that said, yes, I'm aware his QB rating in that game is higher than any of Dalton's, but it just goes to show how a TEAM can win in the playoffs. As bad as Dalton has played in the postseason, it should be more concerning that our defense - that for many of those playoff appearances were argued as being elite - never showed up. 

I have never understood how people can be critical of Dalton's poor play yet defend the defense's.

(01-09-2018, 11:28 AM)BengIll Communication Wrote: Funny that you should mention Wilson and Rodgers.

In 2013 Dalton and the Bengals trailed Rodgers Division Champion Packers 30-14 with 5 minutes left in the third quarter.  Dalton then goes 9-10 for 132 yards and 2 tds leading the Bengals to a 34-30 win.

In 2015 Dalton trailed Wilson's Seahawks (who had the #1 defense in the league that year) 24-7 in the 4th quarter.  Dalton goes 13-16 for 135 yds with a passing td and a rushing td.  Bengals score on their last three possessions in regulation and win 27-24 in overtime.

Gotta love those people who are sooooooooooooo certain about a guy's future. They remind me of those that said Kurt Warner could never play in the NFL, let alone win a Super Bowl.

(01-07-2018, 08:00 AM)Utts Wrote: Andy is nowhere near elite. He is an order of magnitude away from elite. Elite QBs take over games, they can put their team on their back (e.g., Rodgers, Wilson). Andy will never do that. Not ever.

Funny he did that in 2015 oh wait that doesn't matter because it goes against your point.

(10-31-2018, 05:31 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Raiders RB's have 64 catches, which is 34% of Carr's completions.
Panthers RB's have 45 catches, which is 28.4% of Cam's completions.
Bengals RB's have 38 catches, which is 20.5% of Dalton's completions.

Easy completions = higher completion %. 

The Raiders are targeting RB's way more due to Gruden's system.
The Panthers are targeting RB's more thanks to McCaffrey.

Hence their completion percentages going up. It isn't about stats increasing every year, at least not in this instance. 

My point is about where he is (and where he seems to stay) and where he (maybe more, we) want him to be.

Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Wilson, Cousins, Rodgers, Brady and Roethlisberger are guys who are always in the top ten. Guys with 94+ career ratings. 

Stafford, Newton, Luck, Carr, Tannehill and Smith are all guys that Dalton is actually lumped in with and they have career ratings in the mid to high 80s. Dalton is the best of the bunch with an 89.0. 

The new guns, Mahomes, Goff, Wentz and Watson are all coming on the scene and putting up numbers better than him, so when the older guys finally retire, there's already other guys to take their place. 

It's year 8 and there are still "reasons" why he hasn't climbed the ladder to those top 8-10 guys and his inconsistencies have always kept him right in the middle of the pack. Is he getting better? Sure, but he's only getting better at a pace that will keep him in the middle of the pack, not necessarily get him consistently in the top 10.

(10-31-2018, 06:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: My point is about where he is (and where he seems to stay) and where he (maybe more, we) want him to be.

Brees, Rivers, Ryan, Wilson, Cousins, Rodgers, Brady and Roethlisberger are guys who are always in the top ten. Guys with 94+ career ratings. 

Stafford, Newton, Luck, Carr, Tannehill and Smith are all guys that Dalton is actually lumped in with and they have career ratings in the mid to high 80s. Dalton is the best of the bunch with an 89.0. 

The new guns, Mahomes, Goff, Wentz and Watson are all coming on the scene and putting up numbers better than him, so when the older guys finally retire, there's already other guys to take their place. 

It's year 8 and there are still "reasons" why he hasn't climbed the ladder to those top 8-10 guys and his inconsistencies have always kept him right in the middle of the pack. Is he getting better? Sure, but he's only getting better at a pace that will keep him in the middle of the pack, not necessarily get him consistently in the top 10.

There's some truth to what you're saying, but you also have to account for all the Josh McCown's, RG3's, Kaepernick's and Ryan Fitzpatrick's that ranked ahead of him for 1-2 years then disappeared. All in all, there's only been 18 QB's to post multiple top 10 finishes since 2011, and 4 of them are retired. You could also exclude Fitzpatrick, because no one thinks he's better than Dalton. Then you have Luck, who is currently 10th, which would give him 2 seasons in the top 10.

So basically 12-13 guys have been better than Andy, if that's the criteria you're using. Still "above average". Tbh though, I'd say it's better than "above average" for 2 reasons. 1) There's more than 32 QB's that qualify each year and 2) Dalton has remained consistent. His down seasons haven't been as drastic as those of say...Luck and Cam.

It's been brought up many times on here, but it also hurts Dalton's stats when Marv takes the foot off the gas when we're steamrolling a team. I've seen a lot of games where guys like Drew Brees get to keep compiling stats because they never let up. 

I also agree with Wyche that Dalton's play has been better than his numbers suggest. That 4 INT game hurt. His rating has been trending up, and I expect that to continue. We'll see. 

One last point is this: I don't remember all this "average" talk with Palmer, and his average rank in passer rating was 13.3...not much better than Andy. 

(01-09-2018, 11:28 AM)BengIll Communication Wrote: Funny that you should mention Wilson and Rodgers.

In 2013 Dalton and the Bengals trailed Rodgers Division Champion Packers 30-14 with 5 minutes left in the third quarter.  Dalton then goes 9-10 for 132 yards and 2 tds leading the Bengals to a 34-30 win.

In 2015 Dalton trailed Wilson's Seahawks (who had the #1 defense in the league that year) 24-7 in the 4th quarter.  Dalton goes 13-16 for 135 yds with a passing td and a rushing td.  Bengals score on their last three possessions in regulation and win 27-24 in overtime.

Does the style of this "one post wonder" sound familiar to anyone?

I got to be honest I am Glad to see Andy Dalton to get hurt in the manner he did. It is nothing too serious, but it lets us know that we have a good solid Back UP and it might be the motivation Andy needs to get in the saddle and play a little bit harder.

Before All the Andy Dalton defenders come running, the guy did not get hurt like he will never be able to walk again or never be able to speak again or be able to see again, but I think it is a good thing for him to see the ball being moved down field and him not in the Game. If Driskel was in the entire Game good chance we would have been at least competitive.

So yeah I am Glad to see Andy Dalton get Hur...

I think Andy Dalton is one of the top tier people in the world but maybe this will change his game a bit.

It's hard to say what happens if Driskell would have starter. I think the Browns had taken their foot off the pedal at that point. Plus, coming in off the bench, you don't have time to overthink things.

I do agree though that Driskell did look good and he had some really nice throws. I was encouraged by what I saw.

(11-26-2018, 10:53 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's hard to say what happens if Driskell would have starter. I think the Browns had taken their foot off the pedal at that point. Plus, coming in off the bench, you don't have time to overthink things.

I do agree though that Driskell did look good and he had some really nice throws. I was encouraged by what I saw.

I really like his size 6'4" 235 seems and the way he can run.  If he does have to take contact he might just get that extra yard or two we need on a scramble for a first down.  I think it is time to really consider Driskel for the Remainder of the season.  Even if Cleveland took the gas off the peddle Driskel did not even have AJ Green and he was still moving the ball and at least making it competitive.  I like what I saw for sure. 

Jeff Driskell is a solid back up who can win a game or two. His play yesterday was not nearly as good as the stats would have you believe though. Tempo, circus catches and some dropped interceptions made it look a lot better than it was when you throw the tape on again.

I liked what I saw from him, more exciting than McCarron for sure.  He should have had two pick sixes that were dropped, and Tate bailed him out on a couple of throws with acrobatic catches on errant throws (almost an insane one that the ground knocked loose), and Boyd on another one.  However, he settled in and played admirably.  With some time with the first team, he may settle in and play even better.

That said, Dalton DID set up our only score with a nice run of his own, and then Mixon followed suit.  It was nice to see Ross make some plays too.  I knew we were toast when they said Glenn was out.

(11-26-2018, 11:42 AM)Au165 Wrote: Jeff Driskell is a solid back up who can win a game or two. His play yesterday was not nearly as good as the stats would have you believe though. Tempo, circus catches and some dropped interceptions made it look a lot better than it was when you throw the tape on again.

Beat me to it.  This is how I saw it.  I did a lot of rewinding on some of those catches....lol.  He did throw a nice laser to John Ross inside the 5 though.....and the TD to Boyd was a nice damn throw too.  

Driskel is a scrub. Only our fans could find hope in him playing

I would say just lose out and take the best QB in the draft, but man...the 2019 QB group apparently sucks ass. Justin Herbert and Dwayne Haskins are currently the only ones who look like they could be first round picks at QB.

Of course, the same was said of Blaine Gabbert and Cam Newton in the 2011 NFL draft...and then Ponder and Locker were taken in the first as well (not that either of those picks went well...).

(11-26-2018, 11:49 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I would say just lose out and take the best QB in the draft, but man...the 2019 QB group apparently sucks ass. Justin Herbert and Dwayne Haskins are currently the only ones who look like they could be first round picks at QB.

Of course, the same was said of Blaine Gabbert and Cam Newton in the 2011 NFL draft...and then Ponder and Locker were taken in the first as well (not that either of those picks went well...).

Being a die hard FSU homer......I never understood that one....or EJ Manuel for that matter.

(11-26-2018, 11:46 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Driskel is a scrub. Only our fans could find hope in him playing

He's playing better than Dalton right now. So what does that make Dalton?

Driskel is playing garbage time. Lets see what he does starting a game.