Robert Livingston who was Kevin Coyle's assistant working with the safeties has been promoted to Secondary Coach.  The team is seeking another person to take over Livingston's role.



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Marvin Lewis’ 2018 #Bengals coaching staff is moving toward completion: Rob Livingston is the team’s secondary coach. He was due.

Good? Bad? Someone give me the nitty-gritty.

he's a young guy (around 30) started with the team as a scout. Promoted to the coaching staff in 2015. Seems to be highly thought of. The safeties aren't a group we do a lot of yelling about.

I'm convinced Guenther would still be here if it wasn't for Oakland. They really didn't do much but replace him with a less acclaimed DC. Everything else on D will remain the same.

Iloka took a step back under his tutelage, and Williams never developed under him. Hopefully he doesn't ruin WJIII and Dennards progress.

Nothing screams "championship mindset" more than this move.

(01-10-2018, 12:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm convinced Guenther would still be here if it wasn't for Oakland. They really didn't do much but replace him with a less acclaimed DC. Everything else on D will remain the same.

Iloka took a step back under his tutelage, and Williams never developed under him. Hopefully he doesn't ruin WJIII and Dennards progress.

False and SO false. Both have been up to their standard of great play and Williams gets ton too much flak on here for being a good S.

Stop this neagtive BS.

(01-10-2018, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: False and SO false. Both have been up to their standard of great play and Williams gets ton too much flak on here for being a good S.

Stop this neagtive BS.

Agree. Iloka and Williams have both been solid. Pro Bowl level? No.
I think many people look at Reggie Nelson as where the safeties need to be, but when looking back at Reggie's years in Cincy, he really only had one dominant year (2015), 2-3 good years, and the rest solid. He wasn't a perennial elite All-Pro like some make him out to be on these boards.
With that said, I don't think it would hurt for the Bengals to consider looking for another safety that might be able to cause more turnovers.

(01-10-2018, 01:48 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Agree. Iloka and Williams have both been solid. Pro Bowl level? No.
I think many people look at Reggie Nelson as where the safeties need to be, but when looking back at Reggie's years in Cincy, he really only had one dominant year (2015), 2-3 good years, and the rest solid. He wasn't a perennial elite All-Pro like some make him out to be on these boards.
With that said, I don't think it would hurt for the Bengals to consider looking for another safety that might be able to cause more turnovers.

I think Iloka is that man.

Williams is great at stopping the run, on the occasional blitz and has shown he can cover TEs decently. WRs though, Iloka (and Nelson, as you pointed out) is on another level.

I agree they need a ballhawing safety to play deep on 3rd downs and the like, but maybe they feel Shaw is that guy?

Its why I wish they had Derron Smith still.

Fedejelem is just like Shawn, but worse in coverage, so he's ina good spot as the 4th guy/teams ace.

(01-10-2018, 02:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think Iloka is that man.

Williams is great at stopping the run, on the occasional blitz and has shown he can cover TEs decently. WRs though, Iloka (and Nelson, as you pointed out) is on another level.

I agree they need a ballhawing safety to play deep on 3rd downs and the like, but maybe they feel Shaw is that guy?

Its why I wish they had Derron Smith still.

Fedejelem is just like Shawn, but worse in coverage, so he's ina  good spot as the 4th guy/teams ace.

I was so stoked when the Bengals got both Shaw and Smith in the draft. I thought maybe they'd need a year of seasoning or two, but I figured we'd see them contributing much more at this point. Cutting Smith was even more shocking to me since I never thought he got a good chance to show what he could do.

I would like to see Shaw focusing more on safety and/or the Bengals get another safety in the offseason.

(01-10-2018, 02:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think Iloka is that man.

Williams is great at stopping the run, on the occasional blitz and has shown he can cover TEs decently. WRs though, Iloka (and Nelson, as you pointed out) is on another level.

I agree they need a ballhawing safety to play deep on 3rd downs and the like, but maybe they feel Shaw is that guy?

Its why I wish they had Derron Smith still.

Fedejelem is just like Shawn, but worse in coverage, so he's ina  good spot as the 4th guy/teams ace.

Great at covering TE's (really?), great at stopping the run (must have missed us stopping the run the past couple seasons)? I'm not sure about any of that but you are entitled to your opinion as am I. What does PFF say. You didn't bring them up which tells me all I need to know.

(01-10-2018, 01:08 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: False and SO false. Both have been up to their standard of great play and Williams gets ton too much flak on here for being a good S.

Stop this neagtive BS.

I agree that Shawn gets too much flack.

(01-10-2018, 02:35 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I think Iloka is that man.

Williams is great at stopping the run, on the occasional blitz and has shown he can cover TEs decently. WRs though, Iloka (and Nelson, as you pointed out) is on another level.

I agree they need a ballhawing safety to play deep on 3rd downs and the like, but maybe they feel Shaw is that guy?

Its why I wish they had Derron Smith still.

Fedejelem is just like Shawn, but worse in coverage, so he's ina  good spot as the 4th guy/teams ace.

Man, that sucked losing Derron, like you said he is that player we need at Safety, a ballhawk.

Shaw might be the dude to fill this role like you said though Truck.

I like moving on from Coyle and Livingston knows how to teach his guys to create turnovers just like Austin.

I am liking both of these moves and i guess if Marv and Austin like Haslett i cannot complain.

Haslett is the one guy i thought hasn't done much with his guys, maybe adding another fast LB will change this.

(01-10-2018, 02:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I was so stoked when the Bengals got both Shaw and Smith in the draft. I thought maybe they'd need a year of seasoning or two, but I figured we'd see them contributing much more at this point. Cutting Smith was even more shocking to me since I never thought he got a good chance to show what he could do.

I would like to see Shaw focusing more on safety and/or the Bengals get another safety in the offseason.

We didn't cut Derron, we put him on the PS and lost him.

Still would of never put him on the PS in the first place.

(01-10-2018, 02:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I was so stoked when the Bengals got both Shaw and Smith in the draft. I thought maybe they'd need a year of seasoning or two, but I figured we'd see them contributing much more at this point. Cutting Smith was even more shocking to me since I never thought he got a good chance to show what he could do.

I would like to see Shaw focusing more on safety and/or the Bengals get another safety in the offseason.

Yeah, the really need to make their minds up at where they are going to play Shaw and let him practice soley in that position. Smith, the Bengals screwed the pooch there. Williams, who I am not at all impressed with, was injured a lot. Waiving Smith was such a stupid idea and the thinking nobody would scoop him backefired. Fej is a tackling machine but suspect in coverage. 

(01-10-2018, 02:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We didn't cut Derron, we put him on the PS and lost him.

Still would of never put him on the PS in the first place.

I thought we waived him and then put him on the PS only to have Cleveland nab him? 

George Iloka is the 44th rated safety according to PFF, which is very very average. Sean Williams is slightly higher at #41.

Point is, don't overrate our own players. Safety has at times been a source of weakness; they don't tackle well (as a result of going for the big hit), don't turn the call over, and haven't covered tight ends well. Hopefully, a lot of that can be adjusted with scheme; Paul viewed the safeties as the "last line of defense" in a bend don't break system, so I bet that took away some aggressiveness.

(01-10-2018, 02:41 PM)jj22 Wrote: Great at covering TE's (really?), great at stopping the run (must have missed us stopping the run the past couple seasons)? I'm not sure about any of that but you are entitled to your opinion as am I. What does PFF say. You didn't bring them up which tells me all I need to know.

I haven't visited that (now) hack site in the past 2+ years.

They abandoned their easy and disclosed grading scheme, to a POS number system that they have now, that is undefined, gimmicky and they have also gotten rid of their signature stats and the like.

I'm not paying over $100.00 a year for that crap.

Oh yeah and our LBs can't cover worth anything; our Ss can.

(01-10-2018, 02:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: We didn't cut Derron, we put him on the PS and lost him.

Still would of never put him on the PS in the first place.

But he was cut in order to be put on the PS. That was my intent with my comment, and therefore we agree.

(01-10-2018, 02:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Yeah, the really need to make their minds up at where they are going to play Shaw and let him practice soley in that position. Smith, the Bengals screwed the pooch there. Williams, who I am not at all impressed with, was injured a lot. Waiving Smith was such a stupid idea and the thinking nobody would scoop him backefired. Fej is a tackling machine but suspect in coverage. 

Agree with all of this.

(01-10-2018, 02:50 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I thought we waived him and then put him on the PS only to have Cleveland nab him? 

Yeah, a bit different than cutting the guy but still, big mistake.

(01-10-2018, 02:52 PM)N_B Wrote: George Iloka is the 44th rated safety according to PFF, which is very very average.  Sean Williams is slightly higher at #41.

Point is, don't overrate our own players.  Safety has at times been a source of weakness; they don't tackle well (as a result of going for the big hit), don't turn the call over, and haven't covered tight ends well.  Hopefully, a lot of that can be adjusted with scheme; Paul viewed the safeties as the "last line of defense" in a bend don't break system, so I bet that took away some aggressiveness.

I don't put much stock in PFF, if these guys got more picks they would be rated way higher by just being in the right
place at the right time. George and Shawn are not ballhawks, but they don't get beat for TD's very often either.

The problem lately is they go for the big hit instead of just tackling the player with proper technique.

Hopefully Austin can coach them up in this aspect.

(01-10-2018, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But he was cut in order to be put on the PS. That was my intent with my comment, and therefore we agree.

Yes we do.

(01-10-2018, 02:48 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Yeah, the really need to make their minds up at where they are going to play Shaw and let him practice soley in that position. Smith, the Bengals screwed the pooch there. Williams, who I am not at all impressed with, was injured a lot. Waiving Smith was such a stupid idea and the thinking nobody would scoop him backefired. Fej is a tackling machine but suspect in coverage. 

Fej is a Bengals defensive player to a T.
He's a good tackler, really good STer.
And the feeling I've at least always gotten from the ML era is tackle the ball carrier to limit the yardage gained and not give up the big play, but not really any emphasis on plays that result in zero or negative yards or turnovers.