(01-10-2018, 03:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Fej is a Bengals defensive player to a T.
He's a good tackler, really good STer.
And the feeling I've at least always gotten from the ML era is tackle the ball carrier to limit the yardage gained and not give up the big play, but not really any emphasis on plays that result in zero or negative yards or turnovers.

Exactly and to your point this goes for our LBs. Their is such a difference between when Burfict hits people and the rest of the LBs hit people. Usually when Burfict hits people they stop dead in their tracks. Watch Vinney or Minter and it is drag down tackle. Not 100% of the time but usually.

(01-10-2018, 02:52 PM)N_B Wrote: George Iloka is the 44th rated safety according to PFF, which is very very average.  Sean Williams is slightly higher at #41.

Point is, don't overrate our own players.  Safety has at times been a source of weakness; they don't tackle well (as a result of going for the big hit), don't turn the call over, and haven't covered tight ends well.  Hopefully, a lot of that can be adjusted with scheme; Paul viewed the safeties as the "last line of defense" in a bend don't break system, so I bet that took away some aggressiveness.

They are in the low 40's in safety rankings, but their PFF scores are 77 for Iloka and 79 for Williams. Both still quality starters.
To me, the scores are more important than the ranking compared to other safeties.
I look at it like this...a really smart kid in high school has a GPA of 4.2, which is really good. However, this kid is ranked 28th in his/her class because 27 other students have even higher than 4.2 GPA. Now is that kid considered bad because he/she is not a top 10? Or is the kid still incredibly smart even though he/she is not in the top 10?
Ultimately, I care more that the kid had a really good GPA, not where he/she ranked in his/her class.

They were talking about internal hires on Sirius this AM. They basically said if you do not promote from within without changing HC you are telling your staff that no one in house is capable of doing the job.

In the new passing "era" a safety who can cover and hit is vital, i.e see Landon Collins......we def dont have anyone close to him on this team

(01-10-2018, 12:45 PM)Takedown Wrote: Good? Bad? Someone give me the nitty-gritty.

Never heard of him but sounds like a car salesman.

(01-10-2018, 12:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm convinced Guenther would still be here if it wasn't for Oakland. They really didn't do much but replace him with a less acclaimed DC. Everything else on D will remain the same.

Iloka took a step back under his tutelage, and Williams never developed under him. Hopefully he doesn't ruin WJIII and Dennards progress.

Our safeties are pretty good. That’s one of the most solid positions on the team. Heck even Fedj looks good when he is in there.

(01-10-2018, 04:02 PM)bfine32 Wrote: They were talking about internal hires on Sirius this AM. They basically said if you do not promote from within without changing HC you are telling your staff that no one in house is capable of doing the job.

Marvin has also been grooming this guy from scout to coach. Worked around Zimmer, Joseph, and Coyle. Those aren’t bad DB coaches at all. Plus add in Austin who has DB roots. Not to mention working under Guenther. Livingston shouldn’t be overlooked. Dude has a serious resume going.

(01-10-2018, 03:53 PM)ochocincos Wrote: They are in the low 40's in safety rankings, but their PFF scores are 77 for Iloka and 79 for Williams. Both still quality starters.
To me, the scores are more important than the ranking compared to other safeties.
I look at it like this...a really smart kid in high school has a GPA of 4.2, which is really good. However, this kid is ranked 28th in his/her class because 27 other students have even higher than 4.2 GPA. Now is that kid considered bad because he/she is not a top 10? Or is the kid still incredibly smart even though he/she is not in the top 10?
Ultimately, I care more that the kid had a really good GPA, not where he/she ranked in his/her class.

They are rated, quite literally, as average.

Plus, your comparison doesn't hold water. Presumably, there are hundreds of kids in a class whereas there's only 2.5 safeties per team rated, or around 80. They are 50-60th percentile, aka very average

(01-10-2018, 12:58 PM)jj22 Wrote: I'm convinced Guenther would still be here if it wasn't for Oakland. They really didn't do much but replace him with a less acclaimed DC. Everything else on D will remain the same.

Iloka took a step back under his tutelage, and Williams never developed under him. Hopefully he doesn't ruin WJIII and Dennards progress.

Agreed on all counts. Some will just approve of any move we make. Seriously. Some haven't disapproved of a single move we've made through this whole shake up...at least not on here. I've been pretty much 50/50 on our moves. Don't care for this one. Feels lazy like the Zampese hire. 

I can't be a fan of anyone who has spent his entire career under Marvin coming in basically as an intern. Also, does Austin have no say on his staff? We retained Burney and Haslett before Austin was even hired, then promoted a career Marvin guy to secondary coach. So now Austin has to work with all Marvin guys? Gonna be hard to judge Austin too harshly when this is clearly Marv's show on defense...even though he's not calling plays.

(01-10-2018, 02:56 PM)ochocincos Wrote: But he was cut in order to be put on the PS. That was my intent with my comment, and therefore we agree.

he was cut because we had to add a kicker.. he also seemed injury prone.. not a good thing to rely on a backup that is injury prone

(01-10-2018, 04:07 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Never heard of him but sounds like a car salesman.

One of my first bosses way back when was actually named Bob Livingston. Guy was a total prick and couldn't get anyone to stick around very long. Let's hope this Mr. Livingston has much better people skills. 

(01-10-2018, 06:43 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Marvin has also been grooming this guy from scout to coach. Worked around Zimmer, Joseph, and Coyle. Those aren’t bad DB coaches at all. Plus add in Austin who has DB roots. Not to mention working under Guenther. Livingston shouldn’t be overlooked. Dude has a serious resume going.

Funny I just read there Guenther article on bengals.com and this was in the article. Livingston is working from the same map that brought up Guenther. Shows there has been a proven plan for this guy. He is certainly one to watch.

Quote:Guenther, 46, did it all at Paul Brown Stadium since he arrived in 2005. Advance scouting. Quality control. Assisting DBs. Assisting linebackers. Coaching linebackers. When Thomas Howard tore his ACL the Thursday before the third game in 2012 he made sure undrafted rookie Vontaze Burfict was ready to start on Sunday at WILL backer and at the end of the next season Burfict led the league in tackles and went to the Pro Bowl. And for the last four years as coordinator that included two post-season berths and a club scoring record in 2015.

I feel like we're getting worse

(01-10-2018, 04:02 PM)corpjet Wrote: In the new passing "era" a safety who can cover and hit is vital, i.e see Landon Collins......we def dont have anyone close to him on this team

Iloka can do both.

And well.

(01-10-2018, 11:55 PM)bonesaw Wrote: I feel like we're getting worse

Oh shut up with this nonsense; what proof do you have that ANY team would be worse with this hire?

Miserable nonsense.

Thought Derron Smith was going to be really good.

I disagree that we're set at safety. I'd even go as far as to say it is a need behind LB.

(01-10-2018, 08:18 PM)N_B Wrote: They are rated, quite literally, as average.

Plus, your comparison doesn't hold water.  Presumably, there are hundreds of kids in a class whereas there's only 2.5 safeties per team rated, or around 80.  They are 50-60th percentile, aka very average

Fair enough. I guess my point was they are performing "average" still whereas the OL, LBs, and NT all performed poor. Therefore, those other positions are more of a need in my mind than safety.

(01-10-2018, 10:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: he was cut because we had to add a kicker.. he also seemed injury prone.. not a good thing to rely on a backup that is injury prone

I thought there were better candidates to cut vs Smith. Specifically Cethan Carter.

(01-11-2018, 03:34 AM)treee Wrote: I disagree that we're set at safety. I'd even go as far as to say it is a need behind LB.

I still think we're good.

We weren't beat constantly in cover 2 or with a safety deep, this year (or the previous years, for that matter) thus I think we're set... but I can definitely see them draft one in the 3rd or 4th, to be our 3rd down/cover guy.

(01-11-2018, 10:26 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought there were better candidates to cut vs Smith. Specifically Cethan Carter.

Oh GOD...

That drop is so infuriating, I think about it from time to time...

(01-11-2018, 10:50 AM)Truck_1_0_1 Wrote: Oh GOD...

That drop is so infuriating, I think about it from time to time...

It wasn't even about the drop for me. It was more the fact the Bengals already had Kroft, Uzomah, and Hewitt healthy by that point IIRC. What's the point of having Carter? Hewitt or Uzomah could have covered Carter's role and then some.