Below are write ups on some of my absolute favorite players in draft.

Orlando Brown Jr., OT, Oklahoma
– This behemoth of a human being at 6’8, 345 plays like a ton of bricks as a run blocker, but has surprising mobility and foot fluidity in pass protection. Obviously at Orlando Brown’s size, he is not going to move like Lane Johnson, but he has shown that he has all the tools necessary to be a franchise offensive tackle in the NFL with his blend of overwhelming power, hand strength and length, controlled aggression around the arc, and overall athleticism

Taven Bryan, DT, Florida
– When I turned on the tape, I did not expect to see the monster that is Taven Bryan. Most draft forecasters rank him in the second or third round, but he simply dominated every offensive lineman he went up against in 2017, especially with his patented and absolutely filthy push-pull move. He creates disruption on almost every snap with his unreal quickness, as he became a pass rushing phenom this season. In fact, he bends better than most defensive ends in this draft. Bryan does need refinement in lane discipline and his overaggressive style of play, but he has all the tools to be a double-digit sack guy at the defensive tackle position, a feat that is reached by only a handful of players.

Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
– He may be 5’10 on a good day, but Denzel Ward is as sticky and feisty as they come in both off and press man coverage. Ward can get up in a receiver’s grill, or he can just sit on top of routes because of how gifted he is athletically. I don’t think it matters where Ward plays at the next level because whether it is inside or out, he is going to shut down wide receivers in man coverage. His reactionary quickness in Zone is not as developed as a player like Jaire Alexander, but he can close ground in a hurry with his elite speed. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he runs sub-4.3 in the 40-yard dash.

Vita Vea, DT, Washington
– What else is there to say about Vita Vea other than the fact that he just mauls dudes at the LOS? I mean, he will take on double teams and throw them to side to make the tackle in the backfield. He is that strong and powerful as a run defender in the middle. As a pass rusher, he moves better than anybody at his size that I can recall. The problems I have with Vea stem from his underdeveloped technique and backfield awareness, but he has all the tools to be one of the league’s most dominant nose tackles

Vander Esch, LB, Boise State
– Boise State’s version of Sean Lee is the best way to describe the uber-talented linebacker prospect Leighton Vander Esch. His uncanny combination of instincts, stopping power, and reliability in space makes him one of favorite prospects in this class. His best fit is at WLB because of his production in space, but he has the stack and shed ability to play the Mike spot as well. The way he chases down plays from the backside, as well as his reactionary quickness to turn and run with slot receivers mid-route, is something that will get scouts jumping on the table for him in board-setting meetings.

James Daniels, C, Iowa
– I was intrigued in my casual viewings of Daniels during the regular season, but when he decided to declare as a true junior, I started a deep dive into his tape. What I found was the best run blocker and interior offensive lineman in this class not named Quenton Nelson. His mobility to get to the second level on sweeps and combo blocks is outstanding. He also puts on a clinic with his reach blocks and overall power in the run game. In fact, I think he could also have big-time value at guard in a zone blocking scheme. He needs better pad level in pass protection, but considering his reliability, traits, and production at only 20 years of age, I think Daniels has multiple Pro Bowls in his future as a step-in starter.

Marcus Davenport, EDGE, UTSA
– The best looking edge defender on the hoof in this class is without a doubt UTSA’s Marcus Davenport. At 6’7, 265, he is able to convert speed to power unlike anyone else in this class. His explosiveness and bend around the arc at that size is something you just don’t find often. The problem is that he is as raw with his technique as you can get. He terrorized opponents with his length and heavy hands as a rusher, but his pad level is atrocious. The same goes for the run game as an edge setter. There is the risk-reward label here, but I’d be more than willing take a chance on a guy with his traits in the first round.

Joshua Jackson, CB, Iowa
– He may not be able to tackle or get off blocks all that well, but Joshua Jackson is one of the most gifted cover corners in this draft class. He is consistently attached to the hip pocket, closing any chance of separation in man coverage, and if you throw the ball in his vicinity, expect that ball to be coming the other way. The physical part of the game is really lacking for Jackson, especially at the LOS and in run support, but whether it is Zone or Man, he will be an instant playmaker in coverage.

DESHON ELLUOT S TEXAS
I am going to be higher on DeShon Elliott than most draft evaluators, but I strongly believe he can be a big time playmaker at the next level. He is an interchangeable safety prospect who can play in the box with his reliable run support skill set and man coverage production, in the deep middle as a centerfielder with his sideline to sideline range, or as a split safety with his excellent instincts and zone awareness in Cover 2/two-man. From a mental processing perspective, Elliott is one of the most NFL-ready prospects in this class. I have questions about his long speed, but he plays faster than he will test because he puts himself in position to make plays on a snap to snap basis.

Jamarco Jones, OT, Ohio State
– There have been late risers in every draft cycle, and I think Ohio State’s senior left tackle Jamarco Jones will be one of those prospects in this class. So far, there has been no early-round buzz for Jones as a prospect, but if you look at the tape against the best competition in his games against Michigan and Oklahoma, he was outstanding. He showed fluidity in his kickstep, power at the point of attack, and a blend of aggression and control around the arc to handle inside counters. Jones is a ready-made NFL pass protector, and I have a feeling he will be one of those players we look back on thinking why he did not go earlier.

Will Hernandez, OG, UTEP
– I’m going to put this as plainly as I can: Will Hernandez is the 2018 NFL Draft’s offensive lineman version of King Kong. He ragdolls opponents at the LOS at will with his brute strength and powerful mitts, proving to be a wrecking ball in the run game. Once he gets his hands on you, it is flat out over. He is a phone-booth guy who will struggle in space, but he has the potential to be one of the best run blockers the NFL has to offer.

Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech
– Tremaine Edmunds does not turn 20 years old until May, making him the youngest player in this draft class, as well as the youngest player to enter the draft since Amobi Okoye. Edmunds has a long way to go with his gap intelligence and instincts as an off-ball linebacker, but when he is in space, he can fly. Regardless if he plays off-ball or as a situational pass rusher, Edmunds is a chess piece with as much athletic ability and potential as any defensive player in this class.

Billy Price, C, Ohio State
– Studying Ohio State senior Billy Price was one of the easiest evaluations I have done in this class so far. He is a cut and dry good football player, plain and simple. Whether it is at guard or center, Price moves people off of their base in the run game and is as reliable as they come in pass protection. His mean streak is always on, looking for another defensive lineman to put on blast. This aggressiveness can also get him into trouble with holding penalties flying his way however. He will turn 24 during his rookie season and is not as twitched up or mobile like James Daniels, but I have no reason to believe that he cannot be a consistent, long-time starter in this league.

ISAIAH WYNN OL GEORGIA
Isaiah Wynn was Georgia’s left tackle this season, but as steady as he was this season, he has guard written all over him at the next level. His big, squatty frame and power as a run blocker will translate inside at the next level. He won’t be able to handle the speed of NFL rushers on the outside, but at guard, he will only be asked to handle these rushers in tight spaces. Put Wynn in a phone booth and he will be a reliable option for years to come.

Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis
– Anthony Miller is another player who will turn 24 during his rookie season, but his play speaks for itself and should not scare off teams. He is fluid before and after the catch, makes plays that 6’4 guys make at the catch point, and has an energy to his game that is contagious. His competitive toughness and confidence to go over the middle and make tough grabs will earn the respect of his teammates. Don’t sleep on his deep speed either to beat cornerbacks over the top. Just a solid, well-rounded player who can make an instant impact at the next level.

JEROME BAKER LB OHIO STATE
Ohio State’s Jerome Baker is another polarizing prospect in this class, but with his athleticism and coverage traits, I think he can be a slam-dunk Day 2 pick for a team in need of speed at the linebacker position. Ideally, he’s playing WLB in a 4-3, and even though he was more of an athlete than an instinctual player flowing to the ball, his cover skills are really going to help a team. Whether it is zone or man, Baker can turn and run with receivers, stay on the hip pocket, and attack the ball in the air. This is an upside pick for sure with plenty of risk, but I would take the chance if he fell to the middle of the second round.

Brian O’Neill, OT, Pittsburgh
– O’Neill is another late riser at the offensive tackle position, but I’m not sure why he wasn’t highly rated in the first place. He moves really well for his size, showcasing excellent fluidity and mobility in pass protection. Getting to the second level and walling off linebackers is one of O’Neill’s strengths, but he can struggle against straight power in one on one situations. Core strength in his base is not his strong suit, but when you can move that well and be as reliable around the arc as O’Neill is and, you will have a place in the NFL as a pass protector.

LORENZO CARTER LB GEORGIA
Lorenzo Carter is an intriguing prospect in several ways. The first thing that jumps out is his freakish athleticism. His speed to run sideline to sideline and/or close around the corner for a sack is his calling card. This unique skill set of production as a pass rusher, but also reliability in space makes me think he can be a hybrid player at the next level. Whether he serves as a situational pass rusher, off-ball linebacker, or as a potential LEO, ala Bruce Irvin, Carter is going to appeal to plenty of teams, especially the ones that miss out on Tremaine Edmunds early.

(01-15-2018, 05:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Below are write ups on some of my absolute favorite players in draft.

Orlando Brown Jr., OT, Oklahoma
– This behemoth of a human being at 6’8, 345 plays like a ton of bricks as a run blocker, but has surprising mobility and foot fluidity in pass protection. Obviously at Orlando Brown’s size, he is not going to move like Lane Johnson, but he has shown that he has all the tools necessary to be a franchise offensive tackle in the NFL with his blend of overwhelming power, hand strength and length, controlled aggression around the arc, and overall athleticism

Taven Bryan, DT, Florida
– When I turned on the tape, I did not expect to see the monster that is Taven Bryan. Most draft forecasters rank him in the second or third round, but he simply dominated every offensive lineman he went up against in 2017, especially with his patented and absolutely filthy push-pull move. He creates disruption on almost every snap with his unreal quickness, as he became a pass rushing phenom this season. In fact, he bends better than most defensive ends in this draft. Bryan does need refinement in lane discipline and his overaggressive style of play, but he has all the tools to be a double-digit sack guy at the defensive tackle position, a feat that is reached by only a handful of players.

Denzel Ward, CB, Ohio State
– He may be 5’10 on a good day, but Denzel Ward is as sticky and feisty as they come in both off and press man coverage. Ward can get up in a receiver’s grill, or he can just sit on top of routes because of how gifted he is athletically. I don’t think it matters where Ward plays at the next level because whether it is inside or out, he is going to shut down wide receivers in man coverage. His reactionary quickness in Zone is not as developed as a player like Jaire Alexander, but he can close ground in a hurry with his elite speed. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if he runs sub-4.3 in the 40-yard dash.

Vita Vea, DT, Washington
– What else is there to say about Vita Vea other than the fact that he just mauls dudes at the LOS? I mean, he will take on double teams and throw them to side to make the tackle in the backfield. He is that strong and powerful as a run defender in the middle. As a pass rusher, he moves better than anybody at his size that I can recall. The problems I have with Vea stem from his underdeveloped technique and backfield awareness, but he has all the tools to be one of the league’s most dominant nose tackles

Vander Esch, LB, Boise State
– Boise State’s version of Sean Lee is the best way to describe the uber-talented linebacker prospect Leighton Vander Esch. His uncanny combination of instincts, stopping power, and reliability in space makes him one of favorite prospects in this class. His best fit is at WLB because of his production in space, but he has the stack and shed ability to play the Mike spot as well. The way he chases down plays from the backside, as well as his reactionary quickness to turn and run with slot receivers mid-route, is something that will get scouts jumping on the table for him in board-setting meetings.

James Daniels, C, Iowa
– I was intrigued in my casual viewings of Daniels during the regular season, but when he decided to declare as a true junior, I started a deep dive into his tape. What I found was the best run blocker and interior offensive lineman in this class not named Quenton Nelson. His mobility to get to the second level on sweeps and combo blocks is outstanding. He also puts on a clinic with his reach blocks and overall power in the run game. In fact, I think he could also have big-time value at guard in a zone blocking scheme. He needs better pad level in pass protection, but considering his reliability, traits, and production at only 20 years of age, I think Daniels has multiple Pro Bowls in his future as a step-in starter.

Marcus Davenport, EDGE, UTSA
– The best looking edge defender on the hoof in this class is without a doubt UTSA’s Marcus Davenport. At 6’7, 265, he is able to convert speed to power unlike anyone else in this class. His explosiveness and bend around the arc at that size is something you just don’t find often. The problem is that he is as raw with his technique as you can get. He terrorized opponents with his length and heavy hands as a rusher, but his pad level is atrocious. The same goes for the run game as an edge setter. There is the risk-reward label here, but I’d be more than willing take a chance on a guy with his traits in the first round.

Joshua Jackson, CB, Iowa
– He may not be able to tackle or get off blocks all that well, but Joshua Jackson is one of the most gifted cover corners in this draft class. He is consistently attached to the hip pocket, closing any chance of separation in man coverage, and if you throw the ball in his vicinity, expect that ball to be coming the other way. The physical part of the game is really lacking for Jackson, especially at the LOS and in run support, but whether it is Zone or Man, he will be an instant playmaker in coverage.

DESHON ELLUOT S TEXAS
I am going to be higher on DeShon Elliott than most draft evaluators, but I strongly believe he can be a big time playmaker at the next level. He is an interchangeable safety prospect who can play in the box with his reliable run support skill set and man coverage production, in the deep middle as a centerfielder with his sideline to sideline range, or as a split safety with his excellent instincts and zone awareness in Cover 2/two-man. From a mental processing perspective, Elliott is one of the most NFL-ready prospects in this class. I have questions about his long speed, but he plays faster than he will test because he puts himself in position to make plays on a snap to snap basis.

Jamarco Jones, OT, Ohio State
– There have been late risers in every draft cycle, and I think Ohio State’s senior left tackle Jamarco Jones will be one of those prospects in this class. So far, there has been no early-round buzz for Jones as a prospect, but if you look at the tape against the best competition in his games against Michigan and Oklahoma, he was outstanding. He showed fluidity in his kickstep, power at the point of attack, and a blend of aggression and control around the arc to handle inside counters. Jones is a ready-made NFL pass protector, and I have a feeling he will be one of those players we look back on thinking why he did not go earlier.

Will Hernandez, OG, UTEP
– I’m going to put this as plainly as I can: Will Hernandez is the 2018 NFL Draft’s offensive lineman version of King Kong. He ragdolls opponents at the LOS at will with his brute strength and powerful mitts, proving to be a wrecking ball in the run game. Once he gets his hands on you, it is flat out over. He is a phone-booth guy who will struggle in space, but he has the potential to be one of the best run blockers the NFL has to offer.

Tremaine Edmunds, LB, Virginia Tech
– Tremaine Edmunds does not turn 20 years old until May, making him the youngest player in this draft class, as well as the youngest player to enter the draft since Amobi Okoye. Edmunds has a long way to go with his gap intelligence and instincts as an off-ball linebacker, but when he is in space, he can fly. Regardless if he plays off-ball or as a situational pass rusher, Edmunds is a chess piece with as much athletic ability and potential as any defensive player in this class.

Billy Price, C, Ohio State
– Studying Ohio State senior Billy Price was one of the easiest evaluations I have done in this class so far. He is a cut and dry good football player, plain and simple. Whether it is at guard or center, Price moves people off of their base in the run game and is as reliable as they come in pass protection. His mean streak is always on, looking for another defensive lineman to put on blast. This aggressiveness can also get him into trouble with holding penalties flying his way however. He will turn 24 during his rookie season and is not as twitched up or mobile like James Daniels, but I have no reason to believe that he cannot be a consistent, long-time starter in this league.

ISAIAH WYNN OL GEORGIA
Isaiah Wynn was Georgia’s left tackle this season, but as steady as he was this season, he has guard written all over him at the next level. His big, squatty frame and power as a run blocker will translate inside at the next level. He won’t be able to handle the speed of NFL rushers on the outside, but at guard, he will only be asked to handle these rushers in tight spaces. Put Wynn in a phone booth and he will be a reliable option for years to come.

Anthony Miller, WR, Memphis
– Anthony Miller is another player who will turn 24 during his rookie season, but his play speaks for itself and should not scare off teams. He is fluid before and after the catch, makes plays that 6’4 guys make at the catch point, and has an energy to his game that is contagious. His competitive toughness and confidence to go over the middle and make tough grabs will earn the respect of his teammates. Don’t sleep on his deep speed either to beat cornerbacks over the top. Just a solid, well-rounded player who can make an instant impact at the next level.

JEROME BAKER LB OHIO STATE
Ohio State’s Jerome Baker is another polarizing prospect in this class, but with his athleticism and coverage traits, I think he can be a slam-dunk Day 2 pick for a team in need of speed at the linebacker position. Ideally, he’s playing WLB in a 4-3, and even though he was more of an athlete than an instinctual player flowing to the ball, his cover skills are really going to help a team. Whether it is zone or man, Baker can turn and run with receivers, stay on the hip pocket, and attack the ball in the air. This is an upside pick for sure with plenty of risk, but I would take the chance if he fell to the middle of the second round.

Brian O’Neill, OT, Pittsburgh
– O’Neill is another late riser at the offensive tackle position, but I’m not sure why he wasn’t highly rated in the first place. He moves really well for his size, showcasing excellent fluidity and mobility in pass protection. Getting to the second level and walling off linebackers is one of O’Neill’s strengths, but he can struggle against straight power in one on one situations. Core strength in his base is not his strong suit, but when you can move that well and be as reliable around the arc as O’Neill is and, you will have a place in the NFL as a pass protector.

LORENZO CARTER LB GEORGIA
Lorenzo Carter is an intriguing prospect in several ways. The first thing that jumps out is his freakish athleticism. His speed to run sideline to sideline and/or close around the corner for a sack is his calling card. This unique skill set of production as a pass rusher, but also reliability in space makes me think he can be a hybrid player at the next level. Whether he serves as a situational pass rusher, off-ball linebacker, or as a potential LEO, ala Bruce Irvin, Carter is going to appeal to plenty of teams, especially the ones that miss out on Tremaine Edmunds early.

I would be wary of Washington NTs, after Danny Shelton has proven to be complete excrement...

(01-15-2018, 10:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I would be wary of Washington NTs, after Danny Shelton has proven to be complete excrement...

Interestingly, everyone thought Shelton would be a beast both against the run and in the pass rush from the NT position. He had 9.0 sacks his final year at Washington. But in the three years in Cleveland, he's had 1.5 sacks total.

Vita Vea doesn't seem like as much of a pass rusher compared to Shelton either. And while Vea is a "monster" when it comes to strength, Shelton and Billings both were considered the same.
Would Vea, Shelton, and Billings have been such "monsters" if they played in the SEC or Big 10, which typically has bigger, stronger OL?

What I'm surprised is how quickly people are prepared to replace Billings after just one season. Yes, he wasn't the monster this past year we thought he was going to be, but he's only 22 years old (will be 23 in March) and switched from OL to DL in college, so he's still developing. If people have faith that Vea will be a dominant DT in the NFL, I don't see why the same still shouldn't be expected of Billings.

Pick 12 overall seems too early to go after a NT.

(01-15-2018, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: What I'm surprised is how quickly people are prepared to replace Billings after just one season. Yes, he wasn't the monster this past year we thought he was going to be, but he's only 22 years old (will be 23 in March) and switched from OL to DL in college, so he's still developing. If people have faith that Vea will be a dominant DT in the NFL, I don't see why the same still shouldn't be expected of Billings.

I go back and forth on this one.  Billings was easily our worst d lineman per PFF, but like you said, he is young. 
I could see Sims spot in jeopardy though. I also wonder if Da'Ron Payne isn't the best DT in the draft

Geno 91.5
Dunlap 84.3
Lawson 80.6
Johnson 75.9
Willis 75.6
Glasgow 71.2
Tupou 67.8
Smith 67.1
Sims 61.0
Billings 43.6

I am on the Taven Bryan hype ttrain. I love monster athletes on the DL.

(01-15-2018, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Interestingly, everyone thought Shelton would be a beast both against the run and in the pass rush from the NT position. He had 9.0 sacks his final year at Washington. But in the three years in Cleveland, he's had 1.5 sacks total.

Vita Vea doesn't seem like as much of a pass rusher compared to Shelton either. And while Vea is a "monster" when it comes to strength, Shelton and Billings both were considered the same.
Would Vea, Shelton, and Billings have been such "monsters" if they played in the SEC or Big 10, which typically has bigger, stronger OL?

What I'm surprised is how quickly people are prepared to replace Billings after just one season. Yes, he wasn't the monster this past year we thought he was going to be, but he's only 22 years old (will be 23 in March) and switched from OL to DL in college, so he's still developing. If people have faith that Vea will be a dominant DT in the NFL, I don't see why the same still shouldn't be expected of Billings.

Pick 12 overall seems too early to go after a NT.

Mhm; I saw maybe 3 tapes of Shelton's, "good," games when he came out and I saw right away that Kika'ha (however you spell his name) constantly pass rushing allowed Shelton to be single teamed against, as you said, "weaker," olineman, which he ate up.

One play, where people were RAVING over his lateral speed, it was because 3 LBs blocked off the running lanes and the RB went back to the inside, right into Shelton; that screams of scheme, more than a player being dominant.

Cleveland's line has had decent guys on it too, but Shelton does nothing.

As for Billings, he progressed significantly after midseason or so, hence why he was the starter.

PFF means jack ****.

(01-15-2018, 11:35 AM)Goalpost Wrote: I go back and forth on this one.  Billings was easily our worst d lineman per PFF, but like you said, he is young. 
I could see Sims spot in jeopardy though. I also wonder if Da'Ron Payne isn't the best DT in the draft

Geno 91.5
Dunlap 84.3
Lawson 80.6
Johnson 75.9
Willis 75.6
Glasgow 71.2
Tupou 67.8
Smith 67.1
Sims 61.0
Billings 43.6

Totally get replacing Sims, but does it need to be done in the first round? I can't recall the Bengals ever considering NT in the first round plus I still think the combo of Billings and Tupou could become something if given more time.

I just think too many people have this knee-jerk reaction on players after seeing them fail in just their first season on the field. If there's worry about Billings and Tupou, address NT in FA on a 1-2 year contract and consider drafting a replacement in 2019 or 2020. Bengals have gotten solid production from DTs in the 4th round many times in the past and Billings was considered by nearly everyone of having first-round talent, so I still believe he can be a very good NT within a year or two.

(01-15-2018, 12:09 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Mhm; I saw maybe 3 tapes of Shelton's, "good," games when he came out and I saw right away that Kika'ha (however you spell his name) constantly pass rushing allowed Shelton to be single teamed against, as you said, "weaker," olineman, which he ate up.

One play, where people were RAVING over his lateral speed, it was because 3 LBs blocked off the running lanes and the RB went back to the inside, right into Shelton; that screams of scheme, more than a player being dominant.

Cleveland's line has had decent guys on it too, but Shelton does nothing.

As for Billings, he progressed significantly after midseason or so, hence why he was the starter.

PFF means jack ****.

While I don't fully agree with that statement, I do think that it's really difficult to get to a good rating by the end of the year if you started the year terrible because it's a cumulative score.
And unfortunately for most (all?) of us, we don't pay for PFF so we can't see game-by-game ratings, just cumulative and possibly a particular game if that player was in the top 5 performances of that game.

(01-15-2018, 12:18 PM)ochocincos Wrote: While I don't fully agree with that statement, I do think that it's really difficult to get to a good rating by the end of the year if you started the year terrible because it's a cumulative score.
And unfortunately for most (all?) of us, we don't pay for PFF so we can't see game-by-game ratings, just cumulative and possibly a particular game if that player was in the top 5 performances of that game.

Mhm, exactly.

As with most start-ups, once you dumb it down and make it... common and non-unique, it becomes a shell of it's former self.

I'm happy for them that they have turned it into a legit business and have the support, etc., but I see little to no value in their site, at this point.

(01-15-2018, 12:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Mhm, exactly.

As with most start-ups, once you dumb it down and make it... common and non-unique, it becomes a shell of it's former self.

I'm happy for them that they have turned it into a legit business and have the support, etc., but I see little to no value in their site, at this point.

I preferred before when you used to post the individual grades and they were broken down by categories, e.g. OL/DL would be broken down by run and pass.
Also, PFF is WAY too expensive now.
I think PFF Edge would get a ton more subscribers if it was $20-25 and PFF Elite shouldn't be more than $50.

(01-15-2018, 01:14 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I preferred before when you used to post the individual grades and they were broken down by categories, e.g. OL/DL would be broken down by run and pass.
Also, PFF is WAY too expensive now.
I think PFF Edge would get a ton more subscribers if it was $20-25 and PFF Elite shouldn't be more than $50.

Precisely.

And they know now, that people will indeed pay for it, so they have jacked up the price, completely takking a crap on its loyal fanbase and others, who were with them from the beginning.

(01-15-2018, 10:29 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: I would be wary of Washington NTs, after Danny Shelton has proven to be complete excrement...

No. He is insanely better than Danny Shelton
Shelton got a ton of single coverage in college. Vea consistently destroys triple teams. Also vea is perfect in a 4-3, I think he would be less in a 3-4 despite his size. His pass rushing skills are amazing for a man his size. I've seen him go from the middle of the field to the sideline beating the qb, a mobile qb to the sideline. U will be passing on a insanely talented not who will be a perrenial double digits Dt. Him getting single coverage is just to easy in the NFL.

(01-15-2018, 06:37 PM)Jpoore Wrote: No. He is insanely better than Danny Shelton
Shelton got a ton of single coverage in college. Vea consistently destroys triple teams. Also vea is perfect in a 4-3, I think he would be less in a 3-4 despite his size. His pass rushing skills are amazing for a man his size. I've seen him go from the middle of the field to the sideline beating the qb, a mobile qb to the sideline. U will be passing on a insanely talented not who will be a perrenial double digits Dt. Him getting single coverage is just to easy in the NFL.

Yeah. According to the ridiculousness you've posted in the other threads, I'm not touching your opinion with a 10 foot pole. 

Not to be the crushing voice of reason, but you are NOT an expert on the draft and the NFL in general and the amount of times you've inserted your foot into your mouth is hilariously high. 

You can give your opinions and stuff, but stop fighting people who don't agree: you look foolish and as a result, nobody takes you seriously. 

It is why every conversion you start, devolves into a passing match, instead of good discussion. Kudos to Ochocincos for being respectful and trying to help you out. 

(01-16-2018, 12:46 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Yeah. According to the ridiculousness you've posted in the other threads, I'm not touching your opinion with a 10 foot pole. 

Not to be the crushing voice of reason, but you are NOT an expert on the draft and the NFL in general and the amount of times you've inserted your foot into your mouth is hilariously high. 

You can give your opinions and stuff, but stop fighting people who don't agree: you look foolish and as a result, nobody takes you seriously. 

It is why every conversion you start, devolves into a passing match, instead of good discussion. Kudos to Ochocincos for being respectful and trying to help you out. 

I don't really give a **** on how u feel about me. Dont comment then. Doesn't change the fact that Shelton was a 2 down player coming out of college.vea is a 3 down player that will put u on ur ass rushing the passer and stopping the run than u can build ur franchise around. One thing u do know how to do is watch tape. And the tape says he is going to be a franchise changing Dt for the next 10 years.

(01-15-2018, 10:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Interestingly, everyone thought Shelton would be a beast both against the run and in the pass rush from the NT position. He had 9.0 sacks his final year at Washington. But in the three years in Cleveland, he's had 1.5 sacks total.

Vita Vea doesn't seem like as much of a pass rusher compared to Shelton either. And while Vea is a "monster" when it comes to strength, Shelton and Billings both were considered the same.
Would Vea, Shelton, and Billings have been such "monsters" if they played in the SEC or Big 10, which typically has bigger, stronger OL?

Shelton is the first guy that came to mind after zeroing in on Vea. Huge and strong with a good first step but as you said I wonder how he would look in a better conference. Next I had to ask myself if he would have come out last year how would he match up in that extremely deep defensive line class...Second round at best.

(01-16-2018, 10:20 AM)Jpoore Wrote: I don't really give a **** on how u feel about me. Dont comment then. Doesn't change the fact that Shelton was a 2 down player coming out of college.vea is a 3 down player that will put u on ur ass rushing the passer and stopping the run than u can build ur franchise around. One thing u do know how to do is watch tape. And the tape says he is going to be a franchise changing Dt for the next 10 years.

I don't really see Vea stand out at all when comparing his tape to Billings and Shelton. Both of those guys too were considered world-beaters with All-Pro potential.
In fact, the words "All-Pro" were mentioned in both Billings' and Shelton's scouting reports on NFL.com in the Bottom-Line section:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/andrew-billings?id=2555267
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/danny-shelton?id=2552325

You may end up being right on Vea, but that's too risky for me to take a NT at 12 when IMO we have one of near-equivalent talent in Billings.

EDIT - Also, I can't find a site that lists collegiate snap counts, but from looking at the final years of Shelton and Vea, I'd say you're also wrong about Shelton only being a 2-down player in college compared to Vea being a 3-down player.

Shelton 2014 (14 games) - 94 total tackles, 17.0 TFL, 9.0 sacks, 3 FR (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/danny-shelton-1.html)
Vea 2017 (12 games) - 43 total tackles, 5.5 TFL, 3.5 sacks, 4 PD (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vita-vea-1.html)

If Shelton was able to have his 2014 stats as a 2-down player and Vea had his stats as a 3-down player, I'd prefer Shelton over Vea.

(01-15-2018, 05:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: James Daniels, C, Iowa
– I was intrigued in my casual viewings of Daniels during the regular season, but when he decided to declare as a true junior, I started a deep dive into his tape. What I found was the best run blocker and interior offensive lineman in this class not named Quenton Nelson. His mobility to get to the second level on sweeps and combo blocks is outstanding. He also puts on a clinic with his reach blocks and overall power in the run game. In fact, I think he could also have big-time value at guard in a zone blocking scheme. He needs better pad level in pass protection, but considering his reliability, traits, and production at only 20 years of age, I think Daniels has multiple Pro Bowls in his future as a step-in starter.

Daniels has something thr top 2 centers in the class (Ragnow, Price) don't have Short area quickness. He fires out to the second level quickly and as you said he drives combos and reaches well.
But I have 2 areas if concern. Daniels is not asked to pull so he doesn't have to take his eyes off the defense and then find a target in space. Second he doesn't sustain all his blocks very well he gets shed fairly easily.

(01-16-2018, 11:29 AM)Synric Wrote: Daniels has something thr top 2 centers in the class (Ragnow, Price) don't have Short area quickness. He fires out to the second level quickly and as you said he drives combos and reaches well.
But I have 2 areas if concern. Daniels is not asked to pull so he doesn't have to take his eyes off the defense and then find a target in space. Second he doesn't sustain all his blocks very well he gets shed fairly easily.

Daniels medicals will be important to me.  I keep reading about knee concerns.  

(01-16-2018, 11:27 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't really see Vea stand out at all when comparing his tape to Billings and Shelton. Both of those guys too were considered world-beaters with All-Pro potential.
In fact, the words "All-Pro" were mentioned in both Billings' and Shelton's scouting reports on NFL.com in the Bottom-Line section:
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/andrew-billings?id=2555267
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/profiles/danny-shelton?id=2552325

You may end up being right on Vea, but that's too risky for me to take a NT at 12 when IMO we have one of near-equivalent talent in Billings.

EDIT - Also, I can't find a site that lists collegiate snap counts, but from looking at the final years of Shelton and Vea, I'd say you're also wrong about Shelton only being a 2-down player in college compared to Vea being a 3-down player.

Shelton 2014 (14 games) - 94 total tackles, 17.0 TFL, 9.0 sacks, 3 FR (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/danny-shelton-1.html)
Vea 2017 (12 games) - 43 total tackles, 5.5 TFL, 3.5 sacks, 4 PD (https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/vita-vea-1.html)

If Shelton was able to have his 2014 stats as a 2-down player and Vea had his stats as a 3-down player, I'd prefer Shelton over Vea.

U got to remember though Shelton had a lot of good players next to him. Vea was basically alone on that dline. Vea gets triple teamed u should be able to generate pressure. I would be interested to see the qb pressures stats bc I think there's 3 games that anyone watching tape on vea needs to see. Ucla against a balanced offense, Stanford against a power offense, and Oregon against a spread offense. He dominated all 3. He's not Danny Shelton. I promise u that. The problem is u can't compare him to anyone bc we haven't seen anyone like him before. Shelton had a decent first step but vea first step is electric quick. Vea has insane short area quickness. I don't think Billings or Glasgow are anywhere near the players vea is. He's a plug and play player and we're gonna regret passing on him. When I said Shelton is a 2 down player I meant now. I don't think Shelton is a 3 down player in nfl. Vea is. Shelton is nowhere near the Dt or the athlete vea is. Hope we don't make the mistake of passing on him.