http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/25/vince-mcmahon-aims-to-re-imagine-football/

McMahon says they will KNOW what a catch is..

Goal is to start in January 2020 with 8 Teams playing a 10 game season (yet to be selected Cities)

First game would be the week of the probowl

There is some good here.

Waiting till 2020 is a good idea. Let's them get their ducks in a row and live up to the "what fans want". I heard that they're shooting for 2 hours as a run time for the games. I'd go with a running clock outside of the last 2 minutes of each half in fact.

That said, it's still probably destined for failure. 8 teams of 40 people are just too many. He can harp all he wants about improving the quality of play, but there simply aren't going to really be 320 quality players to be had during an NFL offseason. There will be a lot of college football never-will-bes and NFL veteran barely-weres. Few fringe NFL players in their right minds would pass up a shot at a future in the NFL to participate in the XFL. No college athlete with even the faintest prospect of being drafted is going to risk it either. I would have started with a 4 team 8 week season, and if possible built from there.

And while simplifying the catch rule would be cool, there's not really many other ways to "re-imagine" football. It's clear that the days of flying clotheslines and spearing is over. If the XFL wants any credibility, the player safety issues currently in the NFL will have to stay in place. You can't do away with those and still say you're worried about quality of play.

So everyone can get real excited to watch Johnny Manziel hand it off to Trent Richardson, but this sounds like it's going to be a repeat of XFL 1.0. If the streaming comes to fruition I'm sure that it is something that the NFL will be looking at closely, if they haven't already fully implemented it by 2020.

(01-25-2018, 06:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There is some good here.

Waiting till 2020 is a good idea. Let's them get their ducks in a row and live up to the "what fans want". I heard that they're shooting for 2 hours as a run time for the games. I'd go with a running clock outside of the last 2 minutes of each half in fact.

That said, it's still probably destined for failure. 8 teams of 40 people are just too many. He can harp all he wants about improving the quality of play, but there simply aren't going to really be 320 quality players to be had during an NFL offseason. There will be a lot of college football never-will-bes and NFL veteran barely-weres. Few fringe NFL players in their right minds would pass up a shot at a future in the NFL to participate in the XFL. No college athlete with even the faintest prospect of being drafted is going to risk it either. I would have started with a 4 team 8 week season, and if possible built from there.

And while simplifying the catch rule would be cool, there's not really many other ways to "re-imagine" football. It's clear that the days of flying clotheslines and spearing is over. If the XFL wants any credibility, the player safety issues currently in the NFL will have to stay in place. You can't do away with those and still say you're worried about quality of play.

So everyone can get real excited to watch Johnny Manziel hand it off to Trent Richardson, but this sounds like it's going to be a repeat of XFL 1.0. If the streaming comes to fruition I'm sure that it is something that the NFL will be looking at closely, if they haven't already fully implemented it by 2020.

At first I'm sure they wont have any top talent.. But some players might take a shot at playing starter over being a backup.   It will all kinda depend on the wages I guess... A Backup QB in the NFL on base salary can still be making close to 500k to a mil a year...   (which is ridiculous)    So if players what an opportunity to  showcase themselves over getting paid they might jump.

They could also by pass some of what the NFL does and not need 3 years out of highschool.     I'm not sure how he will run the league. He said he wants it to be family friendly.  and the WWE itself has gone that way after the Dengeration X era... (attitude era)  which probly ended shortly after XFL..  (in the WWE that have zero tolerance for some of the things the NFL players do... NFL is still inconsistent on that)  SO that might also limit the pool of players.

But there are a ton of players that just never get a shot in the NFL... and with the Arena league folding youll have those players also looking for homes in the football world.

It probly will fail.. If he builds it well enough it could find some loyal viewers or be like a minor league for them.. (probly ends with NFL buying them out)

It doesn't look like its gonna try and compete with the NFL for ratings starting when the NFL ends.

While the talent might not be up to par it doesn't stop college games from getting a ton of viewers the NFL games If the game was clean fast and called consistently they already have a better product that nfl

(01-25-2018, 06:36 PM)CKwi88 Wrote: There is some good here.

Waiting till 2020 is a good idea. Let's them get their ducks in a row and live up to the "what fans want". I heard that they're shooting for 2 hours as a run time for the games. I'd go with a running clock outside of the last 2 minutes of each half in fact.

That said, it's still probably destined for failure. 8 teams of 40 people are just too many. He can harp all he wants about improving the quality of play, but there simply aren't going to really be 320 quality players to be had during an NFL offseason. There will be a lot of college football never-will-bes and NFL veteran barely-weres. Few fringe NFL players in their right minds would pass up a shot at a future in the NFL to participate in the XFL. No college athlete with even the faintest prospect of being drafted is going to risk it either. I would have started with a 4 team 8 week season, and if possible built from there.

And while simplifying the catch rule would be cool, there's not really many other ways to "re-imagine" football. It's clear that the days of flying clotheslines and spearing is over. If the XFL wants any credibility, the player safety issues currently in the NFL will have to stay in place. You can't do away with those and still say you're worried about quality of play.

So everyone can get real excited to watch Johnny Manziel hand it off to Trent Richardson, but this sounds like it's going to be a repeat of XFL 1.0. If the streaming comes to fruition I'm sure that it is something that the NFL will be looking at closely, if they haven't already fully implemented it by 2020.

I think the there isn't enough talent is just a bullshit reason why it won't work. For 1 if that were the case Why is college football so successful? 2.) There are good players outside the NFL like the  CFL and Indoor leagues that would love to play in the XFL. 

I think the XFL will work if it tries to be its own thing and they accept that it can't beat the NFL.  The one problem I see is that playing it January through April
 If it we're me start it in April end it in late July early August.

(01-25-2018, 07:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: At first I'm sure they wont have any top talent.. But some players might take a shot at playing starter over being a backup.   It will all kinda depend on the wages I guess... A Backup QB in the NFL on base salary can still be making close to 500k to a mil a year...   (which is ridiculous)    So if players what an opportunity to  showcase themselves over getting paid they might jump.

They could also by pass some of what the NFL does and not need 3 years out of highschool.     I'm not sure how he will run the league. He said he wants it to be family friendly.  and the WWE itself has gone that way after the Dengeration X era... (attitude era)  which probly ended shortly after XFL..  (in the WWE that have zero tolerance for some of the things the NFL players do... NFL is still inconsistent on that)  SO that might also limit the pool of players.

But there are a ton of players that just never get a shot in the NFL... and with the Arena league folding youll have those players also looking for homes in the football world.

It probly will fail.. If he builds it well enough it could find some loyal viewers or be like a minor league for them.. (probly ends with NFL buying them out)

It doesn't look like its gonna try and compete with the NFL for ratings     starting when the NFL ends.

While the talent might not be up to par it doesn't stop college games from getting a ton of viewers the NFL games   If the game was clean fast and called consistently they already have a better product that nfl

You realize that in XFL v 1.0 the top salary was 5k a game for quarterbacks right? It will be impossible for any other league to compete with the salaries that 

It comes down to there not being enough talent to field talented teams. Maybe with 4 teams you could find enough between NFL has beens and undrafted college players that never caught on. With 8 teams you're talking high-school football quality ball. 

I sincerely think that there is space for another football league. I thought that McMahon would pull from the reality TV appeal (let's be honest, the WWE is Keeping up with the Kardashians for dudes) and try to incorporate that with a new league. If you keep the league small, you could attract enough practice squad/fringe practice squad players. Mix that in with aging veterans that still want to play, and you could set up (real, not manufactured) storylines, kind of copying from the TV Shows like "undrafted" where the XFL could follow the few players that have NFL potential. 

Like Poo mentions, run the league from sometime after the draft (let the dust settle on undrafted to fill up rosters) and then run it to the end of July, right in time for NFL preseason where some of the players might have put something on film that NFL coaches would like to see. That's why the XFL should use things like a running clock to speed up the game so that there is less wear and tear on the players as well. 

As to the bold. That is complete and unadulterated bullshit. The players are the product, not the commercials or refereeing. Just ask the Packers without Rodgers and how good that product was. 

(01-25-2018, 07:54 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I think the there isn't enough talent is just a bullshit reason why it won't work. For 1 if that were the case Why is college football so successful? 2.) There are good players outside the NFL like the  CFL and Indoor leagues that would love to play in the XFL. 

I think the XFL will work if it tries to be its own thing and they accept that it can't beat the NFL.  The one problem I see is that playing it January through April
 If it we're me start it in April end it in late July early August.

College is successful because of team loyalty, and the fact that there are talented players on college rosters. Mike Vrabel said it best that the NCAA is the NFL's farm league. The most talented players go on to NFL teams. the XFL will just get people that were good enough for college, but not NFL quality. 

I agree on the time for the season. At the same time, I hope McMahon has a person smarter than me (or you) calling those shots.

(01-25-2018, 07:01 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: ... A Backup QB in the NFL on base salary can still be making close to 500k to a mil a year...   (which is ridiculous)      

Funny, I could have sworn I saw 2 backup QBs playing in the nfc championship game. Maybe Foles and Keenum would rather be on the Memphis Maniax.

I'm looking forward to this. I'm glad Vince is actually giving this time to develop. Last time teams first met up 3 weeks before the first game. That's why the game was so sloppy. I think proper development with the backing of his new company will be beneficial. I could see this reducing the number of college players heading to the CFL. 

(12-31-2017, 05:36 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I'd rather glance more at the Lingerie League...

Understand that

But really would not watch xfl at all.

Hard enough keeping up with Louisville basketball (women's and mens), football, baseball, Reds and Bengals already.

The XFL needs to go after top High School and College talent. Offer them a place to get paid while waiting to be eligible for NFL draft. They can then get away with paying less because they are the only option for those players not eligible for the NFL yet. I am sure a lot of players would forgo college to go play ball somewhere they can get paid. The reality is a lot of the players playing football in college should not be in college and eventually end up failing out or worse getting pushed through because of their academic prowess.

(01-25-2018, 08:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Funny, I could have sworn I saw 2 backup QBs playing in the nfc championship game. Maybe Foles and Keenum would rather be on the Memphis Maniax.

Yeah it can happen sometimes... But rarely is a team good enough to go all the way with backups...   Hence Bradys 6th superbowl ring in just 9 days.

(01-26-2018, 11:00 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah it can happen sometimes... But rarely is a team good enough to go all the way with backups...   Hence Bradys 6th superbowl ring in just 9 days.

I guess I'm just wondering what you think a backup QB in the NFL should make, is all.

(01-26-2018, 01:49 AM)Bengal Dude Wrote: I'm looking forward to this. I'm glad Vince is actually giving this time to develop. Last time teams first met up 3 weeks before the first game. That's why the game was so sloppy. I think proper development with the backing of his new company will be beneficial. I could see this reducing the number of college players heading to the CFL. 

It's going to come down to money and influence.  The reason the USFL lasted more than one season is because it appeared at a time when NFL players were dissatisfied with their salaries and they were able to lure actual NFL talent there by paying out more than they honestly should have.  As for the CFL, it does seem like a punchline for those fixated on it being NFL-or-nothing, but it's been around since 1958 so if a player has a chance to play in the CFL or a reboot of a league that lasted a single year in the new XFL, I'm not sure the CFL is going to be the wrong choice there.

We shall see, but this looks like an expensive business plan for 2020 that is based around a PR move relevant in 2017.  Maybe in 2020 people will still be so mad at the NFL that they'll watch this stuff, but time will tell.

I also expect it not to be called the XFL, but rather something with America or USA or some other patriotic word (that isn't patriot) in the title.  Vince McMahon knows his audience, so I imagine this will be like a return to the Gulf War days of the WWF where Hulk Hogan and the Ultimate Warrior were draped head to toe in stars and stripes, and so on.

Here are some pics for a trip down memory lane!

(01-26-2018, 11:26 AM)Nately120 Wrote: I guess I'm just wondering what you think a backup QB in the NFL should make, is all.

For me all the NFL players receive to much money....    And still complain. and sue for damages to their bodies when they got paid well for it.   

(01-26-2018, 12:54 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: For me all the NFL players receive to much money....    And still complain. and sue for damages to their bodies when they got paid well for it.   

Ah you're one of those types.  Well to each his own. 

Forcing people to stand and not giving people second chances seems un American. Its his choice but to say there will be no politics and then make those points seems to go against the no politics zone. I Still think it can work but man I am not sure Vince is capable of understanding that he will never beat the NFL.

(01-26-2018, 06:51 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Forcing people to stand and not giving people second chances seems un American. Its his choice but to say there will be no politics and then make those points seems to go against the no politics zone. I Still think it can work but man I am not sure Vince is capable of understanding that he will never beat the NFL.

He doesn't have to BEAT the NFL just find a niche and sub stain it and grow if its fun to watch people will watch.


Forcing people to behave as  obligated by contract is perfectly reasonable. when they are on the job... And Pro Football (or Semi Pro) is still a job.

You couldn't do whatever protest you wanted at your work I'm sure and neither could I...  Without the employers blessing.

Many companies wont touch someone with a criminal record (hell some can refuse to hire you just because your a smoker I don't agree with all these things but its a companies decision to make)... Is that un-American too? or just wrong when Vince does it?

but this rolls down a political discussion so we should avoid it outside of P&R

(01-26-2018, 06:51 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I am not sure Vince is capable of understanding that he will never beat the NFL.

Never say never. Fans have all the power here. If he puts a good product on the field, it will grow while the NFL is starting to die among some people. Face it. If you love watching professional football, your probably going to watch a game or two of XFL. The more the NFL ticks you off, your likely to watch even more, right?

(01-27-2018, 09:16 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Never say never. Fans have all the power here. If he puts a good product on the field, it will grow while the NFL is starting to die among some people. Face it. If you love watching professional football, your probably going to watch a game or two of XFL. The more the NFL ticks you off, your likely to watch even more, right?

They are going to have to change their original plan if they want long term success. People did tune in for a game or two the first time, and that was about it, so the ratings for the XFL petered out in a hurry.

If it looks like preseason NFL it'll get old quick...again.  Also, the Arena League exists, so are mad NFL fans flocking to that yet? I can see why they can't//won't watch the CFL because it's too different and/or it isn't American, but if people really are dying for an alternative to the NFL then the Arena League should experience an uptick in fan interest, right? Or maybe people are just going to watch college football rather than any professional football...I don't know.

I only know my own experience, but people who are mad at the NFL have a tendency to cite that the players make too much money, so the new XFL may be in a no-win situation if they are trying to please consumers who want players to make much lower wages, but also don't want to tune it to watch the types of players who have to take a fraction of the paycheck they'd get if they were in the NFL.

At any rate, it doesn't look like the new XFL is going to run the season at the same time as the NFL, so it's not really direct competition in that sense. One of the main reasons cited that the USFL failed is because it moved its season to coincide with the NFL. So people aren't going to have to choose between the NFL or XFL and can watch one, the other, or both if they so choose. But like I said, it's going to come down to their ability to attract actual NFL talent. If it looks like a whole league of pre-season following 6 months of NFL football, I wouldn't expect people to be too hyped to sit through it all.

Also, if a knock against the NFL is that refs are biased and/or it's rigged I'm not sure the fact that every team in the XFL is owned by one guy who made his billions selling scripted stuff is going to sit well.

(01-09-2018, 02:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If the XFL can secure actual NFL talent then it might have a chance. Right now I'm just picturing Dontay Moch chasing down Zach Mettenberger as he looks to complete a pass to Victor Cruz.

Other professional football leagues have existed, but they came to be when NFL salaries were stagnant and players could be lured to other organizations with higher paychecks. If the NFL is going to give Kirk Cousins $30+ million every year I can't see the XFL actually getting top-level talent. Add in the fact that fans are probably going to want to see players get injured and concussed on every play and only former players on the dole are going to show up to play. I mean, honestly...who is the best NFL player you can picture leaving the NFL in order to play in the XFL?

I will say that Vince McMahon will do this in order to dupe a bunch of investors into covering the costs and it won't even matter if the league sinks because other people will be holding the bag.

I can honestly see Burfict switching to the XFL once he gets banned for the year for the year or even life after he decapitates JuJu.