(02-08-2018, 05:30 PM)Wyche Wrote: I wish they'd hurry up and prove it, or get off the pot.

I agree.

Mike owns the pot and he & Marvin are staying on it.

This thread may appear to be a Homer thread that props up Mike & Marvin.

I see it more as a middle ground thread that offers a bit of Hope in the darkness.

They lie somewhere between 0 and 7 Playoff game hopeless incompetence and the 8 and 0 - 2015 team they did build. (5 straight playoffs)

We should know after Free Agency and the Draft if 2018 may be promising.

They are not total inept Clowns as some imply, yet the positive things they have done always reach a let down ceiling.

(02-08-2018, 01:36 PM)depthchart Wrote: I remember watching it scroll across the bottom of the screen on NFL network in 2015.

Power Rankings #1 - Bengals

Ahead of the Patriots, Seahawks, Denver and others.  Bengals #1 Power Ranked team.

I'd wait for 5 minutes just to watch it scroll by again.  Totally stoked.  Totally amazed.

This was Mike & Marvin's Peak Time.

They actually had their Plans align into a formidable team.

Proves to me it is "possible" for them to show an aptitude for NFL Football.

It was the 5th straight Playoff year and the Peak team. Mike & Marvin were far from being "clowns" at that time.

8 and 0, number 1 in the Power Rankings. Remember that comeback win against the Seahawks.

We all know how things unraveled from there. Dalton's injury takes the wind out of every Bengal fan. Loss to Denver without MVP caliber at the time Dalton takes home field advantage in the Playoffs away. AJ fills in well but not at MVP level. Ahead of the Steelers in the playoff game with 1:27 remaining on the clock after the Jeremy Hill fumble & in field goal range, then the Burfict hit and Pac Man meltdown.

Then the 0 and 7 in the Playoffs chant begins and the Marvin can't win a Playoff game proclamations.

In fairness to Marvin, he did have them right there. Ball in Hill's hands, field goal range, 1:27 left on the clock. Fumble lost.

To me, Mike & Marvin are more than capable of winning a Playoff game and have proven that they can make consistent Playoff appearances.

I know, 0 and 7 means they never have and therefore never proven they can and therefore blah, blah, blah.

I get all that, however, they did start 8 and 0 (which is a rather rare thing for a team to do) lost an MVP caliber QB at the time and Mike & Marvin were not the ones who fumbled the ball.

Well maybe they didn't coach Hill enough on how to hang onto it or should have kneeled or blah. Or maybe Hill doesn't fumble & we still lose.

I get all of that. Heard it all a thousand times and inside and out.

Would we really be in any better place now had Jeremy Hill not fumbled leading to a Marvin Playoff game win in 2015 ?

Marvin would be 1 and 6 in the Playoffs and "actually proven" that he can win a playoff game.

To me, the 8 and 0 start and number 1 in the Power rankings already proved that they are capable of winning a Playoff game someday & could have easily done so in 2015 with say a healthy Dalton or Hill don't fumble or Burfict clean hits Brown or Pac Man keeps his cool.

But those things didn't happen, blah.  We lost, double blah.

Other coaches win when bad things happen, blah.

I get all that.

The REAL ISSUE to me is not whether they can put an 8 and 0, number 1 Power ranked team together or make 5 straight Playoff appearances or whether they are capable of maybe actually winning a Playoff game someday. I think they can.

The REAL ISSUE is that they have some sort of self imposed FUNDAMENTAL LIMITATIONS in how they put their rosters together. They make very decisive decisions to turn over the reigns of important positions like Left Tackle to unproven players or dumpster dive for linebackers or settle for marginal starters at say the Center position.

They get 90% of the way there in roster quality and don't turn on the jets to Lock Down that extra 10% of roster quality (let Whitworth go) or pass on say a better Center in a Draft because ours is "serviceable" etc.

2015 roster Peak years are few and far between is the issue to me.  (Not can Marvin win a Playoff game - he was 8 and 0)

Draft a guy that can beat out a "Penciled in starter". If he beats him out then you UPGRADED that position. If not, you have depth, if so you have depth.

Don't just settle for the "Penciled in starter".

Upgrade and PURSUE that extra 10%.  Reach for Greatness as a Front Office. It is not impossible with new thinking.

To my own rant I say "blah" and others are welcome to say "blah" to it.

Yet in my mind, Mike & Marvin have shown some capability while at the same time find ways to shoot themselves in the foot. (see Whitworth)

In the end, it is their Reputation and not mine. They have to want to PUSH to be better and not rest on 8 and 0 or 5 straight.

To end this, I say "blah" to my own rant.

Ahh, yes. The seahawks win that we barely squeaked by on.

The seahawks team that was 2-4, one win being against the lions on an illegal batting that was never called.
And one against the legendary BEARS.

most overrated win in team history.

a guy once told me, that good teams don't need to be clutch. they don't need to put their selves in position to need to be clutch

(02-08-2018, 06:35 PM)Gohards Wrote: Ahh, yes. The seahawks win that we barely squeaked by on.

The seahawks team that was 2-4, one win being against the lions on an illegal batting that was never called.
And one against the legendary BEARS.

most overrated win in team history.

a guy once told me, that good teams don't need to be clutch. they don't need to put their selves in position to need to be clutch

It is probably over-rated but that Seahawk team did finish 10 and 6. (Won a Playoff game that year)

It was a cool come from behind win against a highly touted defense. Russell Wilson.

Mike & Marvin got to bask in it and that 2015 season for a while. Maybe their Peak together.

We need higher and better Peaks as you imply.

Mike Brown is 0 - 26 now, Marvin Lewis is 0 - 15, forget the 0 - 7 !

I could care less about power rankings, how well they've done in regular season and all the other BS.

The post season is what matters.

with all due respect to the OP, it is sad when us Bengal fans biggest point of pride is being number 1 in the power rankings for a week in the middle of a season where we did not win a playoff game more than 2 years ago.

(02-08-2018, 01:36 PM)depthchart Wrote: I remember watching it scroll across the bottom of the screen on NFL network in 2015.

Power Rankings #1 - Bengals

Ahead of the Patriots, Seahawks, Denver and others.  Bengals #1 Power Ranked team.

I'd wait for 5 minutes just to watch it scroll by again.  Totally stoked.  Totally amazed.

This was Mike & Marvin's Peak Time.

They actually had their Plans align into a formidable team.

Proves to me it is "possible" for them to show an aptitude for NFL Football.

It was the 5th straight Playoff year and the Peak team. Mike & Marvin were far from being "clowns" at that time.

8 and 0, number 1 in the Power Rankings. Remember that comeback win against the Seahawks.

We all know how things unraveled from there. Dalton's injury takes the wind out of every Bengal fan. Loss to Denver without MVP caliber at the time Dalton takes home field advantage in the Playoffs away. AJ fills in well but not at MVP level. Ahead of the Steelers in the playoff game with 1:27 remaining on the clock after the Jeremy Hill fumble & in field goal range, then the Burfict hit and Pac Man meltdown.

Then the 0 and 7 in the Playoffs chant begins and the Marvin can't win a Playoff game proclamations.

In fairness to Marvin, he did have them right there. Ball in Hill's hands, field goal range, 1:27 left on the clock. Fumble lost.

To me, Mike & Marvin are more than capable of winning a Playoff game and have proven that they can make consistent Playoff appearances.

I know, 0 and 7 means they never have and therefore never proven they can and therefore blah, blah, blah.

I get all that, however, they did start 8 and 0 (which is a rather rare thing for a team to do) lost an MVP caliber QB at the time and Mike & Marvin were not the ones who fumbled the ball.

Well maybe they didn't coach Hill enough on how to hang onto it or should have kneeled or blah. Or maybe Hill doesn't fumble & we still lose.

I get all of that. Heard it all a thousand times and inside and out.

Would we really be in any better place now had Jeremy Hill not fumbled leading to a Marvin Playoff game win in 2015 ?

Marvin would be 1 and 6 in the Playoffs and "actually proven" that he can win a playoff game.

To me, the 8 and 0 start and number 1 in the Power rankings already proved that they are capable of winning a Playoff game someday & could have easily done so in 2015 with say a healthy Dalton or Hill don't fumble or Burfict clean hits Brown or Pac Man keeps his cool.

But those things didn't happen, blah.  We lost, double blah.

Other coaches win when bad things happen, blah.

I get all that.

The REAL ISSUE to me is not whether they can put an 8 and 0, number 1 Power ranked team together or make 5 straight Playoff appearances or whether they are capable of maybe actually winning a Playoff game someday. I think they can.

The REAL ISSUE is that they have some sort of self imposed FUNDAMENTAL LIMITATIONS in how they put their rosters together. They make very decisive decisions to turn over the reigns of important positions like Left Tackle to unproven players or dumpster dive for linebackers or settle for marginal starters at say the Center position.

They get 90% of the way there in roster quality and don't turn on the jets to Lock Down that extra 10% of roster quality (let Whitworth go) or pass on say a better Center in a Draft because ours is "serviceable" etc.

2015 roster Peak years are few and far between is the issue to me.  (Not can Marvin win a Playoff game - he was 8 and 0)

Draft a guy that can beat out a "Penciled in starter". If he beats him out then you UPGRADED that position. If not, you have depth, if so you have depth.

Don't just settle for the "Penciled in starter".

Upgrade and PURSUE that extra 10%.  Reach for Greatness as a Front Office. It is not impossible with new thinking.

To my own rant I say "blah" and others are welcome to say "blah" to it.

Yet in my mind, Mike & Marvin have shown some capability while at the same time find ways to shoot themselves in the foot. (see Whitworth)

In the end, it is their Reputation and not mine. They have to want to PUSH to be better and not rest on 8 and 0 or 5 straight.

To end this, I say "blah" to my own rant.

Good post. I hated you, then I liked you again. I feel like a battered girlfriend.

Even if you give Marvin that Steelers game, he'd still be 1-6 in the playoffs, and his offense has always sucked on ice.

Then you still have the prime-time record, record vs Steelers and record vs playoff teams.

No reason to force optimism...the guy is not the answer. Our supposed glory days are just woulda, coulda, shoulda. It's sad and we deserve better.

(02-08-2018, 06:35 PM)Gohards Wrote: a guy once told me, that good teams don't need to be clutch. they don't need to put their selves in position to need to be clutch

Based on this logic the last two Super Bowl Champions were not good teams.

The guy who once told you that was a complete moron.  I hope you did not believe something so silly.

(02-08-2018, 06:46 PM)depthchart Wrote: It is probably over-rated but that Seahawk team did finish 10 and 6. (Won a Playoff game that year)

Playoff wins only matter when bashing the Bengals.

They must be completely ignored when talking about teams that the Bengals beat.  

(02-08-2018, 07:49 PM)bengals67 Wrote: with all due respect to the OP, it is sad when us Bengal fans biggest point of pride is being number 1 in the power rankings for a week in the middle of a season where we did not win a playoff game more than 2 years ago.

I agree.

But it is even sadder that some fans value their victim cards so much that they do everything they can to discredit anything positive about this team.

This thread was not trying to claim that the bengals are great.  It was more in response to the claims around here that the bengals are totally and completely inept and are incapable of doing anything right.

The Bengals are obviously not an elite team.  But they are not among the worst either.  It is sad that some fans get beat up for just stating the truth.  None of us are "happy" with just making the playoffs, but some of us can admit that it is not easy to make the playoffs. 

2015 might just as well be 1915. Those five straight playoff failures are ancient history, utterly irrelevant to anyone not named Brown or Hobson. They have no more relevance than losing SB XIV.

In the what have you done lately league, we're acting like three seasons ago means something? Shows you how much the franchise's low standards have infected some fans.

But hey, we ended the season by knocking two bad teams out of the playoffs that had no business being there. No stopping us now.

(02-09-2018, 10:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Playoff wins only matter when bashing the Bengals.

They must be completely ignored when talking about teams that the Bengals beat.  

Get back to me when the Bengals beat a playoff team in the playoffs.

(02-09-2018, 10:22 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I agree.

But it is even sadder that some fans value their victim cards so much that they do everything they can to discredit anything positive about this team.

This thread was not trying to claim that the bengals are great.  It was more in response to the claims around here that the bengals are totally and completely inept and are incapable of doing anything right.

The Bengals are obviously not an elite team.  But they are not among the worst either.  It is sad that some fans get beat up for just stating the truth.  None of us are "happy" with just making the playoffs, but some of us can admit that it is not easy to make the playoffs. 

They certainly are among the worst.  Not making the playoffs is the very definition of being among the worst, Geoff.

(02-09-2018, 10:42 AM)McC Wrote: Those five straight playoff failures are ancient history, utterly irrelevant to anyone not named Brown or Hobson.

A lot of people here disagree with you.

From now on whenever anyone here brings up Marvin or Mikes playoff history I am going to post this quote from you.

(02-08-2018, 08:25 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Good post. I hated you, then I liked you again. I feel like a battered girlfriend.

I tend to have that kind of effect on people, except they usually start off liking me and end with hating me. 

(02-09-2018, 10:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Playoff wins only matter when bashing the Bengals.

They must be completely ignored when talking about teams that the Bengals beat.  

Huh? So since the Bengals beat a playoff team in the regular season, they are, in fact, a playoff winning team? 

I don't follow that logic. Playoff wins matter when you actually win in the playoffs. They haven't and actually embraced that level of play. Hence the bashing. 

(02-08-2018, 10:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Even if you give Marvin that Steelers game, he'd still be 1-6 in the playoffs, and his offense has always sucked on ice.

Then you still have the prime-time record, record vs Steelers and record vs playoff teams.

No reason to force optimism...the guy is not the answer. Our supposed glory days are just woulda, coulda, shoulda. It's sad and we deserve better.

Giving Marvin the Steeler game that he was oh so close on would have killed the "no playoff win" chants.

People have a right to make those chants but in my mind it oversimplifies a bigger issue.

The same people can chant the same "no playoff win" chants about Dalton, yet Dalton didn't even get to play in the playoffs with what would have been his best team in 2015. Marvin without Dalton for his 2015 team.

I see things more in Ranges.

Say a Range of Aptitude for Mike & Marvin.

7 to 10 wins with 11 to 12 possible in the Regular Season. (12 and 4 in 2015)

In my mind, teams that win 10 to 12 games in a Regular season are more than capable of winning a Playoff game.

It would not surprise me one bit if Mike & Marvin win a Playoff game within the next two years because they have been on that Bubble quite often. The chanters imply it to be an impossibility and that the 2015 team even with a healthy Dalton was incapable.

I see a glimmer of Hope here but Mike & Marvin's Range of Aptitude may not extend much beyond say getting that controversial Playoff win someday.

So in short, I think they can build a Playoff game winning team someday and had at least two in the past that were capable. (2015 & Palmer/Henry team)

I am not as hopeful that their Range of Aptitude would extend much beyond a Playoff win or maybe even two, however.

They do not go for it enough with personnel moves to go much further than that and Marvin may not be in the caliber of many of the successful playoff coaches he competes against.

I am trying to dial in a Range of what may be hoped for in a realistic way while having 0 and 7 chanters in my ear.

I don't include you as a chanter. I have found you to be very realistic.

(02-09-2018, 12:08 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Huh? So since the Bengals beat a playoff team in the regular season, they are, in fact, a playoff winning team? 

I don't follow that logic. Playoff wins matter when you actually win in the playoffs. They haven't and actually embraced that level of play. Hence the bashing. 

You are probably confused because you have not followed the conversation in this thread.

When the Bengals beat a team that won a playoff game (Seahawks) Gohards claimed it was meaningless because the Seahawks actually sucked that year.

(02-09-2018, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are probably confused because you have not followed the conversation in this thread.

When the Bengals beat a team that won a playoff game (Seahawks) Gohards claimed it was meaningless because the Seahawks actually sucked that year.

Say what? The Seahawks finished 10-6 and win a playoff game and you say they sucked that year? Yet you claim just making the playoffs and not winning any of them, we are a good team?? So just showing up for the dance is good, but actually showing up and dancing with a pretty girl sucks?

(02-09-2018, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are probably confused because you have not followed the conversation in this thread.

When the Bengals beat a team that won a playoff game (Seahawks) Gohards claimed it was meaningless because the Seahawks actually sucked that year.

Thanks for clarifying that for him Fred.

It is a full time job just keeping some posters focused.

I usually just let them think what they want because it can be a constant job.

Seems like we are in the same general ball park on the issues this thread covers.