We should probably go OT with our 1st Round pick, but I don't see us drafting any other offensive position at #12.

I think there's a chance that all three of these guys are there at 12:

Derwin James, S,, Fla State
Roquan Smith, LB, UGa
Vita Vea, Washington

Which one would make us a better team? I'm sure we can make a case for each of them.

James is a monster at safety. Even though S. Williams has improved each season, James is just better. But is Williams that bad that we need to prioritize a safety? I don't think so. not when Roquan Smith is there at #12. We need help at MLB, and Smith has the skill set to deliver that help. My only question is whether or not he'd do more to improve us than Vita Vea. Vea looks to be really special, and it's not like adding him to our mix of Dunlap, Geno, Lawson, C. Smith, MJ, Millings, and Glasgow wouldn't make us one of the most fearsome front 4s in the NFL. And i Austin wants to show some 3-4 looks, Vea is perfect NT for that.

What do y'all think?

(02-11-2018, 04:41 AM)Shady Wrote: We should probably go OT with our 1st Round pick, but I don't see us drafting any other offensive position at #12.

I think there's a chance that all three of these guys are there at 12:

Derwin James, S,, Fla State
Roquan Smith, LB, UGa
Vita Vea, Washington

Which one would make us a better team? I'm sure we can make a case for each of them.

James is a monster at safety. Even though S. Williams has improved each season, James is just better. But is Williams that bad that we need to prioritize a safety? I don't think so. not when Roquan Smith is there at #12. We need help at MLB, and Smith has the skill set to deliver that help. My only question is whether or not he'd do more to improve us than Vita Vea. Vea looks to be really special, and it's not like adding him to our mix of Dunlap, Geno, Lawson, C. Smith, MJ, Millings, and Glasgow wouldn't make us one of the most fearsome front 4s in the NFL. And i Austin wants to show some 3-4 looks, Vea is perfect NT for that.

What do y'all think?

Man u really gonna make me choose between vea and james? Damn. I'mma go vea. Vita vea runs a mid 4.8 40. At 350 pounds. I can't get over that. And he's not just a run stuffer. He can rush the passer just as well as some of the best 3 techs in the NFL. But his play iq and gap integrity is off the charts. If he can't get to the rb he just say f*** it and shoves the olineman into the running lane. That was especially evident
when they played Stanford. But he can run the passer. I would have no qualms putting him at 3 tech in a pinch. He's very active with his hands and he dosent give up on any plays. Also after every single play he gets up and smacks his hands together. Either as if to say good job to himself, or to say damn could done better. Give me vea but james is right there behind him.

(02-11-2018, 04:59 AM)Jpoore Wrote: Man u really gonna make me choose between vea and Smith? Damn. I'mma go vea. Vita vea runs a mid 4.8 40. At 350 pounds. I can't get over that. And he's not just a run stuffer. He can rush the passer just as well as some of the best 3 techs in the NFL. But his play iq and gap integrity is off the charts. If he can't get to the rb he just say f*** it and shoves the olineman into the running lane. That was especially evident
when they played Stanford. But he can run the passer. I would have no qualms putting him at 3 tech in a pinch. He's very active with his hands and he dosent give up on any plays. Also after every single play he gets up and smacks his hands together. Either as if to say good job to himself, or to say damn could done better. Give me vea but Smith is right there behind him.

That's about how I feel, too. V for Vendetta. He's my top guy for us at 12. Hope he's there. 

Gimme Smith. After Burfict, our linebacker talent drops off. And Burfict is no cinch to play a full season. Smith can play all three downs.

(02-11-2018, 11:52 AM)Goalpost Wrote: Gimme Smith.  After Burfict, our linebacker talent drops off.  And Burfict is no cinch to play a full season.  Smith can play all three downs.

This ^ 

I like James but I don’t trust our staff to put him in the best positions for him to succeed. Smith is the best fit and we need another stud LB to pair with Burfict. V would be good too, but think LB is a bigger concern. That said, you can’t go wrong with any of them.

I went with Vita Vea. I know that the team could desperately use some serious talent at LB, but I think of the 3 options listed, Vea has the most "instant star" potential.

Admittedly, I didn't watch much UW football this season. However, I did catch their bowl game, and noticed Vea immediately. What first caught my eye was a special team's play. For such a huge man, he is FAST. Not only did he run down field with the greatest of ease, the way he controlled his body in space and made the play on the return man was amazing. I continued to watch him after that, and the guy has a pretty serious mean streak to go along with that athletic ability.

Having a guy like Vea, to pair with Geno up front? That would be a nightmare for OCs to plan for. Who ya gonna double team? That would also dramatically improve the appearance of whomever we had behind them at LB.

I'm going with James for two reasons. First, I'm a homer and I'll take all the Noles players, on the Bengals, as I can get. Second, James would kill multiple birds with one stone. He can play safety, linebacker, cornerback and returner. I think he'd be used best as a SS in 4-3 fronts and he could move to linebacker in nickel where he can cover or pass rush.

That being said, if the team isn't taking o-line in the first (HUGE mistake) then taking d-line would be the next best thing to makes this a better team. So, James, Vea then Smith (I don't like Smith personally) in that order.

(02-11-2018, 12:54 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I'm going with James for two reasons. First, I'm a homer and I'll take all the Noles players, on the Bengals, as I can get. Second, James would kill multiple birds with one stone. He can play safety, linebacker, cornerback and returner. I think he'd be used best as a SS in 4-3 fronts and he could move to linebacker in nickel where he can cover or pass rush.

That being said, if the team isn't taking o-line in the first (HUGE mistake) then taking d-line would be the next best thing to makes this a better team. So, James, Vea then Smith (I don't like Smith personally) in that order.

So, with Iloka under contract for another 3 seasons, you think the Bengals would eat the 1.8M in dead cap and go with the rookie?

Last time we took someone from UGA in the first round it worked out pretty good. Let's do that; although, I see Gruden trying to get his next Derrick Brooks

(02-11-2018, 01:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, with Iloka under contract for another 3 seasons, you think the Bengals would eat the 1.8M in dead cap and go with the rookie?

I actually think it's Williams that would lose playing time, but there are lots things that happen during a season, namely injuries, that a smart team prepares for by having depth. The package the Bengals play most of their defense in would have all three of them on the field at the same time.

(02-11-2018, 01:46 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: I actually think it's Williams that would lose playing time, but there are lots things that happen during a season, namely injuries, that a smart team prepares for by having depth. The package the Bengals play most of their defense in would have all three of them on the field at the same time.

Then, you have essentially 3 guys at SS, making starter money.  (Williams is essentially a SS that is playing FS)  And, you still have Fedj on the roster, who's more of a SS type.

So, are you putting James at FS?  Because earlier you said that you view him as a SS/LB hybrid type.

James he is the best player in the draft. I doubt he gets out of the top 5.

I'd want James just because he can do so much and I think he can be an explosive playmaker, but then having Vita to pair with Geno would make our line scary good. Would anyone get off a pass on more than a 3-or-5 step drop?

I'm torn because I also want James as a playmaker.

Against my better judgement, I'd take Vita in the first and just hope that teams are scared-off of James and he falls to us in two.

That might be the first time ever that I went with what I thought was the smarter pick over the sexy pick.

(02-11-2018, 04:58 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: I'd want James just because he can do so much and I think he can be an explosive playmaker, but then having Vita to pair with Geno would make our line scary good.  Would anyone get off a pass on more than a 3-or-5 step drop?

I'm torn because I also want James as a playmaker.

Against my better judgement, I'd take Vita in the first and just hope that teams are scared-off of James and he falls to us in two.

That might be the first time ever that I went with what I thought was the smarter pick over the sexy pick.

Sure it would be nice to have both of those guys on the team.  But, with all the issues going on with the OL, how do you justify spending the two top draft selections on defensive players?

It's easy to say something like "we can fix the OL with FAs, and 3rd round draft picks", but how well does that strategy generally work out in Bengal land?  

I went with Smith because of the uncertainty of Burfict equation i.e.; either injuries or suspensions. I would rather have Edmunds now but always liked Smith. Vea is tempting. He will be a beast. I think Smith is NFL ready and can help day one.

(02-11-2018, 05:06 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure it would be nice to have both of those guys on the team.  But, with all the issues going on with the OL, how do you justify spending the two top draft selections on defensive players?

It's easy to say something like "we can fix the OL with FAs, and 3rd round draft picks", but how well does that strategy generally work out in Bengal land?  

For one, finally having a good coach.

Two, hopefully signing Jensen in free agency (we'll see if Mike finally lets Marvin be aggressive in free agency like he's saying he will be) to solidify the middle of our line.

Third, being active in free agency for tackles and guards.

Fourth, Pollack hopefully being good at evaluating players in rounds outside of the first two.

It's doubtful that any of the scenarios I suggested happen, and it might better to just go the safe route because our line is not something we want to chance.

(02-11-2018, 02:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Then, you have essentially 3 guys at SS, making starter money.  (Williams is essentially a SS that is playing FS)  And, you still have Fedj on the roster, who's more of a SS type.

So, are you putting James at FS?  Because earlier you said that you view him as a SS/LB hybrid type.

I think iloka is better at FS. He’s better at playing centerfield than stopping the run or covering TE’s. Or, yes James could play FS. The good defenses aren’t so static anymore, you need hybrid guys now to cover these TE’s and RB’s.

You could take James and stick him at WLB too. He’s not a small guy, he’s 6’3” and has been listed between 211-230 lbs, benches 450 and squats 600.

I like arguing for James, but I’m also on record saying he won’t make it to our pick.

(02-11-2018, 05:59 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: For one, finally having a good coach.

Two, hopefully signing Jensen in free agency (we'll see if Mike finally lets Marvin be aggressive in free agency like he's saying he will be) to solidify the middle of our line.

Third, being active in free agency for tackles and guards.

Fourth, Pollack hopefully being good at evaluating players in rounds outside of the first two.

It's doubtful that any of the scenarios I suggested happen, and it might better to just go the safe route because our line is not something we want to chance.

Those are all great things to hope for, but the likelihood of all of those things falling perfectly into place is pretty slim.

While Coach Pollack might be a good coach, let's not forget that he also inherited a Bill Callahan built line made of mostly top rated prospects.

While we're all hoping that the Bengals are going to be stronger players in FA, them electing to go after Jensen and offer the contract that he will command is completely out of character for the way the FO likes to do business, not to mention their typically low value on interior OL.

I could see the Bengals paying for a T, or maybe a mid-priced G, but I'm not expecting any miracles here.

Once again, Coach Pollack might prove to have a great eye for mid and late round talent, but he also needs a sure bet or two to get the rebuild underway.  And, I will absolutely flip my lid if they go after another OT with a serious injury history.  Those guys aren't bargains, their liabilities.  This team needs players who are ready to dive into the deep end, now!

I don't think that I'd hate any of the three. 

James - I'm not as wild about him as many on here. He's best as an in the box safety - a position that this team simply does not need. If they spend a 1st rounder on a safety, I'd really hope that they'd get a centerfield FS, not a guy who may wind up being a Taylor Mays clone. Williams and Iloka aren't a bad starting duo.

Smith - Plays like he was made for the modern NFL. Plays with great quickness and awareness in space. Pass coverage and dumpoff cleanup are really good. The only negatives that I can see are that he's a bit smallish and is not a natural stack and shed, take on the block sort of player. 

Vea - Seems to be a great physical specimen with a workmanlike mentality. Very quick for how large and strong he is. He looks amazing on the highlight reel, but then again so did Danny Shelton. For a defense that struggled against the run, drafting an upgrade over Sims/Billings/Glasgow would be really tempting. Can he make enough of an impact in a passing league to justify the pick, or is he a "two down" type of guy for the NFL? I really don't know. I'd have mixed feelings if they drafted him until I saw him play against pro level competition. I also think that I'd prefer Payne over him.

I went with Smith.

I went roquan. It would be the biggest positional upgrade imo.

Who is our starting LBs right now? Roquan is a nice compliment to Burfict. It is a passing league. Having a LB that can cover has long been a sore spot. Instant starter even on a Marvin Lewis led team. Vigil i still have hope for as well as Evans. But Rey isnt a quality starter, Hardy is practice squad level talent, and Minter did nothing for me to want him back. Behind OL LB is our second weakest group.

Vea is very tempting. But we still have two young guys on rookie contracts that were fairly early picks. Im not ready to give up on Billings or Glasgow yet. Geno isnt going anywhere. We need a #4 DT which is not a first round need.

James wouldnt start on a Marvin Lewis team. With Iloka Williams Fej Shaw and Wilson on the roster im not really looking to invest a first there. I havent paid much attention to James. I like our starters and think the young back ups have upside