(02-19-2018, 06:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Same goes for the rest of his post.  Nothing but opinion with zero substance to back them up.  "Pacman should have been released"  Seriously?  That would have been a very stupid move.

Adam Jones played 9 games for the Bengals last year.  In 5 of those 9 Jackson played more snaps than Pacman (and in another Adam only played 4 more snaps).

And finally the claim that "film would show" Willis is a better de than MJ is just another opinion with nothing to back it up.  I know how "film study" works around here. People see what they want to see and disregard the rest.

Zero substance?

- 21 other team's #2 receivers had more receiving yards than Lafell.

- 14 had more TD's.

- 27th ranked in passing Offense.

- 32nd ranked Offense.

These are your beloved stats.

We can do better i think.

(02-19-2018, 06:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only if you live in "make believe" land where coaches don't care if they win or lose.  Based on your logic it is fair to argue that Ross was better than A J Green last year.

Of course coaches care if they win or lose. Some are just not as good as others and Marvin Lewis is not as good as most.

Based on my logic?

What the hell logic do you have here?

What a stupid comment to make.

(02-18-2018, 04:52 PM)McC Wrote: And what a brilliant way they chose to build the guy up so they could get a return on their investment.  Brilliant coaching.   Shatter his confidence,  Woo Hoo!  He's a rookie.  We'll give him three chances and that's it, we're done with him.  What's that?  We have one WR who can get open?  Who cares?  I'm done with him.

Another example of Marvin's management genius.  Way to get the most out of manpower.  Almost as brilliant as keeping Will Jackson off the field as long as you did.  Rock on, Marvin, you bastion of brilliance.  So happy we get two more years of it. 

What will be the disgusting tale of this year's first round pick?  Will we draft an injured guy or will we bury him on the bench for a year or two?  Can't wait to see.

You nailed it. 

The other thing that many don't grasp is how competition can improve the breed.  Why not push Lafell by playing Core, Malone, and Ross (before the season is over and after you have already seen that he gets zero separation)?  Why not push Jones by giving WJIII a shot?  Ditto MJ over Willis?  

Those guys kept their starter roles despite being some of the worst in the NFL at their positions.  

(02-19-2018, 01:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Marvin did not play Ross because Ross was not better than LaFell.

Your opinion of Ross is meaningless.  He has shown nothing to indicate that he was better than Lafell.  Since LaFell entered the league in '10 he is one of only 15 WRs with at least 390 receptions and a 13.4 or better average per catch.  He is no super star, but he has been a solid starter for years while Ross has done ZERO in the NFL.

Love when you tell others their opinions are meaningless....

Hello Kettle?  You're black!

When Ross gets his shot and makes Marv look even more stupid next year (if that can be possible), you will realize how pathetic the defense of a zero-separation Lafell has been.  What's more is those FA dollars could have been used elsewhere.  I only hope Lazur gets to play his guys at the spots he wants and Marv can go stuff his challenge flag.

(02-13-2018, 10:31 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I hope Mods will leave this in JN, because I want Bengal fan's responses to this discussion:

Marvin wanted Reuben Foster. Even after he got thrown out of the combine, and had the "diluted sample", Marv saw his athletic ability and wanted him.

I wanted Ross, but I don't mean this thread to be about Ross and his Marv Issues.

Foster has been arrested for pot and no domestic violence with possession of an illegal assault rifle in the same month. He is likely facing a six game suspension.

Had the Bengals drafted him, they would be right back where they started reputation-wise. And they would be without another high draft pick. So Marv acts like a douche and doesn't play Ross because he wanted Foster. Thank God the Bengals didn't listen to him.

Not going to lie, I kinda wanted Foster too, but I knew he was a headcase. Glad we didn’t draft him now, I couldn’t handle another troubled linebacker on this team. Seems we get one about every 4 or 5 years.

(02-20-2018, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Love when you tell others their opinions are meaningless....

Hello Kettle?  You're black!

Not sure what you are tryiung to say here.  My opinion, without anything to back it up, is also meaningless.  That is why I always post stats or cite experts to support my position.

(02-20-2018, 09:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: When Ross gets his shot and makes Marv look even more stupid next year (if that can be possible), you will realize how pathetic the defense of a zero-separation Lafell has been.  What's more is those FA dollars could have been used elsewhere.  I only hope Lazur gets to play his guys at the spots he wants and Marv can go stuff his challenge flag.

If Ross is great this year that in no way makes Marvin look stupid.  It will not prove that Ross was physically and/or mentally ready to play in '17.

(02-19-2018, 01:25 AM)Lawless_1 Wrote: 10 games from a good player or no games from a bust?  

If you mean Lafell and Ross, you are way off base here.  Lafell is not a good player.  He generates zero separation and isn't able to take advantage of the single coverage afforded by Green on the other side of the field to the extent that this offense needs.  Those problems were magnified by the loss of Eifert and the "wait until the end of the season before we give Kroft some balls" after looking very good early, albeit against the Browns.

Ross was the #1 playmaker coming out of the draft.  He was like Tyreek Hill, but without the character concerns.  Calling him a bust is not only unfair, it is downright stupid.  If he was playing for a team like KC, New England, etc, he would be tearing it up.  Marv put him in his doghouse after one play.

Remember Kareem Hunt's first game?  Fumbled away his first carry against the Pats...went on to set an NFL rookie record for total yards in their first game.  Destroyed the Pats.

Everyone calling Ross a bust also did the same to TJ Houshmanzadeh and Jeremy Hill(edit:  I meant Rudi Johnson), who didn't get much of a shot their rookie seasons, either.  

(02-20-2018, 10:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Everyone calling Ross a bust also did the same to TJ Houshmanzadeh and Jeremy Hill, who didn't get much of a shot their rookie seasons, either.  

Jeremy Hill rushed for over 1100 yards his rookie season and averaged over 5 yards per carry.

(02-19-2018, 05:37 PM)Benton Wrote: Pulling stats from 2010 doesn't really support LaFell's ability in 2017, either. 

LaFell had more opportunity, but didn't look great doing it. There's no shortage of guys who can catch 55ish percent of their targets as second or third receiver.

I'm not knocking LaFell, I was one of his biggest cheerleaders when I thought he was a stopgap while we tried to get a playoff win. But we aren't winning any playoffs as we are, so there's not a big reason to keep playing him. better to use that time on guys who need to develop.

C'mon, Benton, don't you love when we run an end-around to Lafell for....one yard.

Of when we throw a bubble screen to Lafell for...one yard.  

That is exciting stuff.  The team really seems to rally around that kind of high-performance offense where you continue to roll out average-at-best guys and let the young talent just rot on the bench.  That's probably why folks are standing in line to buy season tickets, and why the NFL loves the Bengals so much.  They play such a high-powered exciting game of football.  

(02-20-2018, 10:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ross was the #1 playmaker coming out of the draft.  He was like Tyreek Hill, but without the character concerns.  Calling him a bust is not only unfair, it is downright stupid.  If he was playing for a team like KC, New England, etc, he would be tearing it up.  Marv put him in his doghouse after one play.

Every single year there are first round picks that do not flourish.  It happens to every team from time to time.  Even the Patriots. Sometimes they imprpove after ther rookie season and sometimes they are juts busts for their entire career. 

I dare you to tell me I am wrong.

(02-19-2018, 06:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Only if you live in "make believe" land where coaches don't care if they win or lose.  Based on your logic it is fair to argue that Ross was better than A J Green last year.

The thing that you seem to fail to understand is that many people here don't believe for a second that Marvin wants to lose.  Many believe that he simply fails to understand that his way will not win.  He is far too conservative for today's NFL.  He seems very entrenched in his ways and is not going to change.  End of story. 

(02-20-2018, 10:02 AM)fredtoast Wrote: If Ross is great this year that in no way makes Marvin look stupid.  It will not prove that Ross was physically and/or mentally ready to play in '17.

The hell it does.  It proves that he held a grudge to prove a point and the team ended up below .500 AGAIN because he was unwilling to make changes to improve the club.  Although he did fire Zampese, and blamed the players, so I guess that is something.  

(02-20-2018, 10:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Jeremy Hill rushed for over 1100 yards his rookie season and averaged over 5 yards per carry.

So sorry, I meant Rudi Johnson...second cup of coffee should help.  

(02-20-2018, 10:14 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Every single year there are first round picks that do not flourish.  It happens to every team from time to time.  Even the Patriots. Sometimes they imprpove after ther rookie season and sometimes they are juts busts for their entire career. 

I dare you to tell me I am wrong.

The fact that there are busts in the NFL is a correct statement.  What Lawless said (I think he was referring to Ross, but not 100% sure, so Lawless, I apologize if I have made the wrong assumption) about him being a bust is inaccurate because I don't believe a player can be labeled a bust based on a lack of opportunity or injury after one season.  

We know what a bust looks like.  I am saying that you can't label the kid a bust after this season, and I provided the example of TJ Houshmanzadeh and Rudi Johnson (on edit) as examples.  What makes this example more disgusting was the cat-and-mouse game of "healthy scratch" that went on this year with the #9 overall pick.  The kid is a VERY high character individual, and for Marv to frustrate the kid to the point of posting what he did on twitter is disgusting.

Do I think Ross should have done it?  Hell, no, but there are a ton of people on here that praise Palmer for taking a stance against the Bengals (I am NOT one of them).  

I am somewhat excited to see a Lazor offense with an entire offseason, and have a healthy Ross, Core, Malone, Boyd (who looked like a different guy toward the end of the season) help take some pressure off Green.  

I would love to see Lazor come out swinging and say something like "Boling is my LT as he has proven he can do it and with the entire preseason to refine his game, I think he can be one of the great LTs in the game.  Redmond and Westerman are going to push for starting positions, as none of the positions on the line are set in stone, except for the aforementioned Boling.  We will be active in FA and we will also utilize the draft.  I can tell you this:  whatever line starts for us on week 1 will have earned it and will be ready to make their mark."

Just set the table that it is going to be a grind and no one (except Boling) has a guaranteed spot would just be cool to hear.  

WHile I am at it, I would like to hear the same from Austin.  

(02-20-2018, 10:30 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: What makes this example more disgusting was the cat-and-mouse game of "healthy scratch" that went on this year with the #9 overall pick.  The kid is a VERY high character individual, and for Marv to frustrate the kid to the point of posting what he did on twitter is disgusting.

Do I think Ross should have done it?  Hell, no, but there are a ton of people on here that praise Palmer for taking a stance against the Bengals (I am NOT one of them). 

Ross does not have a very high character.  He lied about his injury and then when he did not perform well enough to earn playing time he tried posting some video from practice which proved nothing. Anyone can look good in practice.  Especially when you control the edit and don't show anything where you mess up. Those videos told us nothing about his ability to read defenses and adjust his routes.  

That was a very childish move.

Ross needs to grow up if he wants to make it in the NFL.

(02-20-2018, 11:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Ross does not have a very high character.  He lied about his injury and then when he did not perform well enough to earn playing time he tried posting some video from practice which proved nothing. Anyone can look good in practice.  Especially when you control the edit and don't show anything where you mess up. Those videos told us nothing about his ability to read defenses and adjust his routes.  

That was a very childish move.

Ross needs to grow up if he wants to make it in the NFL.

Lied about his injury? So you want guys that won't play thru an injury? cause I bet most of them do on a game day and "lie" about it, hell even the coaches "lie" about it on the Injury Reports, so I don't trust them either. But that is no mark against his character.

Play well = Toughing it out
Don't play well = hiding injury

Bottom line here is Marvin threw Ross under the bus about this injury, and Marv did it to save his own ass cause the season was in the crapper already.

(02-21-2018, 02:17 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: Bottom line here is Marvin threw Ross under the bus about this injury, and Marv did it to save his own ass cause the season was in the crapper already.

Bottom line is that if Marvin never criticizes Ross then most of you are squealing about how he never holds his players accountable, but if he does criticize them then you all squeal about how he is throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass.

If marvin played Ross while he was injured you would have all been squealing about how Marvin was mortgaging the future to try and save his career when he should have benched Ross since we were not winning anything last year.

It does not matter what Marvin does.  you squeal that he is wrong.

And I see that you did not address the fact that Ross tried to show up the coaches by posting his own edited footage from practice that proved nothing.  That is proof that he is immature yet you all want to fawn over him just because you hate Marvin so much.  That was a clown move by Ross, and I amazed how many of you fell for it.

(02-21-2018, 05:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bottom line is that if Marvin never criticizes Ross then most of you are squealing about how he never holds his players accountable, but if he does criticize them then you all squeal about how he is throwing them under the bus to cover his own ass.

If marvin played Ross while he was injured you would have all been squealing about how Marvin was mortgaging the future to try and save his career when he should have benched Ross since we were not winning anything last year.

It does not matter what Marvin does.  you squeal that he is wrong.

And I see that you did not address the fact that Ross tried to show up the coaches by posting his own edited footage from practice that proved nothing.  That is proof that he is immature yet you all want to fawn over him just because you hate Marvin so much.  That was a clown move by Ross, and I amazed how many of you fell for it.

Really? I think the accountability that most of us refer to is players ON the field not playing up to expectations or behaving stupidly on or off the field.

If Ross played and got hurt, we'd be mad at Ross, not Marvin and we'd start referring to Ross as made of glass.

I didn't address it cause it wasn't the brightest thing to do, but still doesn't prove he has low character like you are trying to make it out to be, You are trying hard to make something out of nothing. But hey, if it does prove he has low character, then it should be very minimal compared to some of the antics of current and past Players. The kid is simply frustrated and wants to play and help his team win.

I don't hate Marvin, I just don't think he's a good coach for the NFL.

I could flip this around and say Marvin was childish to keep our First Round Draft Pick (healthy scratches) on the inactive list all season long because he didn't get the guy he wanted in the previous draft. Marvin's job is to coach. He's not the GM, Tobin is. Tobin's job is to draft the players that he thinks will improve the team the most. Marvin's job it to fit the pieces together and make them work.

(02-20-2018, 10:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The thing that you seem to fail to understand is that many people here don't believe for a second that Marvin wants to lose.

Anyone who claims that Marvin Lewis intentionally kept his best player on the bench is saying that Marvin intewntionally tried to lose.

I am not talking ab out his mistakes.  I am talking about the people who claim that the only reason Marvin did not play Ross was because of some petty power feud.

(02-19-2018, 07:38 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Zero substance?

- 21 other team's #2 receivers had more receiving yards than Lafell.

- 14 had more TD's.

- 27th ranked in passing Offense.

- 32nd ranked Offense.

These are your beloved stats.
 

How does any of this prove that Ross, Malone, and Core were better than LaFell?

I never said LaFell was elite.  All I did was respond to this post

(02-15-2018, 10:37 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: There are a hell of a lot of things Marv does that doesn't make any sense,   Like playing Lafell over Ross, Core, and Malone. 

By saying that LaFell was better than Ross, Malone, and Core.

(02-22-2018, 01:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Anyone who claims that Marvin Lewis intentionally kept his best player on the bench is saying that Marvin intewntionally tried to lose.

I am not talking ab out his mistakes.  I am talking about the people who claim that the only reason Marvin did not play Ross was because of some petty power feud.

Then why couldnt he play? There is no way after watching Malone that he knew more about the playbook than Ross did. I fail to believe that. The season was lost, Why didnt he at least see what we had?