(02-20-2018, 02:59 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: The bengals are 12th in salary cap to spend for 2018 @36 million.

Yet watch teams 12-32 (even 32) make more free agent moves, keep some of their own, still have enough for the draft and injury pool. Interesting how that works huh.

Can’t tell if this is real Hobson or Hobson translator....

Oddly enough the Bills drafted two Cincinnati kids that are former Louisville Cardinals over the years that I thought would be perfect for the Bengals in Eric Wood and Preston Brown.

Seems we have not much interest in homegrown talents and or surrounding college fan bases located in Bengals territory unless you are a kicker, punter or late round pick.

Many Cards, Buckeyes, and Wildcats have been passed by that could have helped in early rounds imo.

(02-20-2018, 03:29 PM)jj22 Wrote: Yet watch teams 12-32 (even 32) make more free agent moves, keep some of their own, still have enough for the draft and injury pool. Interesting how that works huh.

Thought the new rule would force owners like MB spend. 

Could not have been more wrong. 

Guess his education is tailored perfectly for finding and exploiting loop holes to squirm through though. 

(02-20-2018, 03:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I would rep you a million if I could! I have been harping on that for a few years, SERVICEABLE .....  I thought the whole idea was to get better?  

Or they Draft in an attempt to MAINTAIN what they expect to lose in a year or two.

Like drafting Cedric and Fisher to have them on the roster in anticipation of losing Whitworth and Andre.

If it works like a charm, then they simply MAINTAIN decent starting left and right tackles when Whitworth and Andre leave.

If it doesn't work out so well we get what we got - a DECLINE at those positions.

Net positive impacts on the quality of the team or Units on the team itself can be stagnant.

(02-20-2018, 03:44 PM)depthchart Wrote: Or they Draft in an attempt to MAINTAIN what they expect to lose in a year or two.

Like drafting Cedric and Fisher to have them on the roster in anticipation of losing Whitworth and Andre.

If it works like a charm, then they simply MAINTAIN decent starting left and right tackles when Whitworth and Andre leave.

If it doesn't work out so well we get what we got - a DECLINE at those positions.

Net positive impacts on the quality of the team or Units on the team itself can be stagnant.

Understand this but will never fill needs and become great with this plan without using FA more. 

There is nothing wrong with picking players a few years early to replace those you expect to lose down the road. 

But those type picks should come in later rounds with the high ceiling project like players instead of early picks. 

Because when you do this by the time it comes to step in then their rookie contract is almost up and will have to give them big money per round selected in as opposed to what they have proven on NFL level. 

Should not use the got to save money for their signing excuse if they are in preparation of their departure either.

(02-20-2018, 02:53 PM)depthchart Wrote: ** Not knocking the current Bengal players I named above but showing just how OPEN I would be to giving almost any Starter we have Serious Competition for his job if I thought an UPGRADE was sitting there in a Draft.

*** The Bengals are on the other end of this Spectrum quickly ruling Upgrade Prospects out because threatening the job of a penciled in starter is a no, no.

(02-20-2018, 03:26 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I would rep you a million if I could! I have been harping on that for a few years, SERVICEABLE .....  I thought the whole idea was to get better?  

You guys are acting like the Bengals don't draft anyone when they pass on these elite players.  That is just nonsense. They are not taking no one in the spot that you want them to take a certain player.  Instead they are taking another highly rated player.

Every frickin' year is the same.

Hobslobs first line is blah,blah,blah, and blah.
Then it's the same bullcrap line at the end ."That’s why you’re not going to see the big free-agent splash in March."
Just once, I would like to see the Bengals go all in! Whether it be the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do. To hell with the future. DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!! JUST ONCE!!!! SHOW THE FAN BASE YOU CARE!!!JUST ONCE!....but who am I kidding? Once again it will be "sorry,No soup for you." I swear, it's me or someone else that types this message every year about this time. Stay the course Bengals, you'll get that "Lombardi" some decade! BahHaHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!

(02-20-2018, 03:44 PM)depthchart Wrote: Or they Draft in an attempt to MAINTAIN what they expect to lose in a year or two.

Like drafting Cedric and Fisher to have them on the roster in anticipation of losing Whitworth and Andre.

If it works like a charm, then they simply MAINTAIN decent starting left and right tackles when Whitworth and Andre leave.

If it doesn't work out so well we get what we got - a DECLINE at those positions.

Net positive impacts on the quality of the team or Units on the team itself can be stagnant.

The plan was correct.  Good teams want to have replacements trained instead of having to depend on a rookie to step in and start at a key position like LT.

The problem was with the players we selected.

Hobsons a joke and it's his spin that Mike wants to win now. However, we know better. We wont make a splash in FA and we will draft BPA regardless of need. That traditionally gives you a team Mike wants. Just a year or two away from the Lombardi and keeps the fans coming back.

(02-20-2018, 03:36 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Thought the new rule would force owners like MB spend. 

Could not have been more wrong. 

Guess his education is tailored perfectly for finding and exploiting loop holes to squirm through though. 

In both '15 and '16 the Bengals spent OVER the league salary cap.  They were able to do this because the Bengakls rolled over unused cap space from previous years instead of pocketing the savings like some other teams do.

(02-20-2018, 04:25 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The plan was correct.  Good teams want to have replacements trained instead of having to depend on a rookie to step in and start at a key position like LT.

The problem was with the players we selected.

My response was in the context of the team itself getting better.

I am OK with the concept of drafting replacements a year or two out, from time to time, however, it becomes hard for the team itself to get better without using Free Agency and needing the replacements to perform well just to maintain the quality of what they replace.

Then, as you say, the problem was the players selected (Cedric/Fisher) and the even bigger problem may be that the Bengals will still pin their hopes on them in 2018 without bringing in serious competition for their jobs.

The weak links on the team may remain weak links because of what was invested in them and a refusal to invest more in those positions until every possible chance & amount of time was given toward recovering a possible Sunk Cost invested in them.

(02-20-2018, 03:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: Whatever the case I am nearly certain they'll re-sign Bodine. Marvin and Mike like to troll fans. They want their way to work and prove fans and pundits wrong so bad. So if it's something we desperately don't want.... They'll do. Something we all call for to happen. It won't happen.

As lame as it may sound, I think a handful of us on this board could turn this team into a sb contender if given GM duties for 1 offseason. Probably any one of us.

Maybe we should start a new site and use child psychology on MB by starting Bodine is the greatest center ever threads and whatever we do please do not waste a pick on said need. 

Flood the radio with give Marvin a lifetime deal before somebody steals him from us calls.

Sooo... we’re going corner or receiver at 12?



Man that’s gonna suck.

Not sure where Hobson said the team considers dts at the 12th spot. The last couple picks we’ve had that high with decent tackles on the board, we went the opposite direction.

(02-20-2018, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You guys are acting like the Bengals don't draft anyone when they pass on these elite players.  That is just nonsense. They are not taking no one in the spot that you want them to take a certain player.  Instead they are taking another highly rated player.

So it's ok to have 6 pretty damn good CBs and have 1 LB that is good, but trotting out glacier slow Vinny Rey because he's serviceable is a good plan? Or starting Bodine because he is serviceable? How many years did we hang onto Rey M?   I guess it depends on your definition of what serviceable means.... I know this all came from Hobby so it could be nothing. I just get pissed when we don't upgrade when there is chance. Right now there are 3 units that need overhauling, O-line, LBer and S. Bringing in a 3rd tier FA is not an upgrade. It just to say, "We did something"....

(02-20-2018, 02:55 PM)ochocincos Wrote: According to the article itself, the Bengals (or at least Hobson) didn't consider Hooker an elite safety.
"And that’s part of the conversation about any trade down. Can you get a similarly ranked guy later? That was an internal debate last year. The elite pass rushers (Myles Garrett and Solomon Thomas) were long gone. So was the elite running back (Leonard Fournette) and elite safety (Jamal Adams) as they went to make the ninth pick. One school of thought was approach Kansas City at 10 or Houston at 12 in their efforts to trade up to get QBs, slide into the 20s, and take a pass rusher like Missouri defensive end Charles Harris or UCLA outside linebacker Takkarist McKinley.

But Washington wide receiver John Ross had an elite top ten trait. A combine-record 4.22-second 40-yard dash. Tough to pass up. Especially when speed across from A.J. Green is a glaring absence. The way this thing is breaking this year, it may be a lot tougher getting out of 12, especially if the top four QBs are gone by ten. But, if one of them is there at No. 12 and somebody wants him, he’ll probably be more valuable to the Bengals in a trade than taking him."

Who are considered the "elite" non-QB players this year?
Bradley Chubb
Saquon Barkley
Quenton Nelson
Minkah Fitzpatrick

Derwin James I think has elite potential but there are question marks based on his (lack of) college production. If James can run a sub-4.4 40, I think though that might get the Bengals to reconsider.
Same with Tremaine Edmunds but sub-4.5.
Roquan Smith also might not be considered if the Bengals didn't consider Foster in that elite group last year. But he has elite production in college and has better coverage ability than Foster had coming out of college.
I don't see Vea or Payne in that elite tier for the Bengals either given their lack of college career pass rush production (on paper at least). Plus, the Bengals didn't apparently think Jonathan Allen was in that elite category of pass rusher like Thomas or Garrett, and Allen was a better pass rusher than both Vea and Payne.

So if I were a betting man, I'd bank on one of the above four "elite" players, draft a position of need, or hopefully trade back.

This is a nice summary of what happened and what we can be expected to do base on history.

A few additional thoughts: 

Rumor has it that Lewis wanted Foster and was outvoted.   The Bengals rarely draft a DT high in the first round, but they might have considered Allen except for his injury issues.   And coincidence or not Allen was injured in the course of the season.

They might consider James if he is rated high enough.  I think if Roquan Smith is there at 12 they will jump on him.   I think that may be who Marvin is hoping will be there.  If he wanted Foster that much I think he'd be very interested in Smith - not that they're that similar, but because he 1) wants an elite LB on the field with Burfict and 2) Wants  a LB who can cover and has the lateral speed to hold the edge from the defensive backfield.  Smith is quick enough to react to guys like Bell making sudden changes in direction and leaving our defense in the dust.   James would be desirable for some of the same reasons.  He needs more playmakers in the defense.

I don't see them taking Barkley or Nelson if they are there - which I highly doubt they will be.  And there are a lot of questions about all the other top O linemen - enough that it could result in us waiting till the 2nd or 3rd round to address.

I could see them taking either Fizpatrick or Ward.   When you think of it the only top notch guy we have is Jackson.  Dennard is the next most well rounded corner with a number of strengths.  Kirkpatric is really good on long ball routes, but is really limited in quick changes of direction, lateral speed and is the worst tackler on the team.  

I doubt Fitzpatrick is there but Ward may be.  He's lightning fast, a tough press corner and a good tackler.  

I've gone to babbling.   But I think the Bengals go with D in the first round.  If they do I hope Smith is there...

(02-20-2018, 02:18 PM)jj22 Wrote: Look for the Browns to be the best NFL team in Ohio in 3 years.

(02-20-2018, 03:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: I think a handful of us on this board could turn this team into a sb contender if given GM duties for 1 offseason. Probably any one of us.

Please tell me you are not serious.

(02-20-2018, 03:31 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Oddly enough the Bills drafted two Cincinnati kids that are former Louisville Cardinals over the years that I thought would be perfect for the Bengals in Eric Wood and Preston Brown.

Seems we have not much interest in homegrown talents and or surrounding college fan bases located in Bengals territory unless you are a kicker, punter or late round pick.

Many Cards, Buckeyes, and Wildcats have been passed by that could have helped in early rounds imo.

Neither went to OSU, so no interest. I think the last guy from UL that was on a Bengals roster was Mario Urrutia during trainings by camp a while back.

(02-20-2018, 05:07 PM)3wt Wrote: This is a nice summary of what happened and what we can be expected to do base on history.

A few additional thoughts: 

Rumor has it that Lewis wanted Foster and was outvoted.   The Bengals rarely draft a DT high in the first round, but they might have considered Allen except for his injury issues.   And coincidence or not Allen was injured in the course of the season.

They might consider James if he is rated high enough.  I think if Roquan Smith is there at 12 they will jump on him.   I think that may be who Marvin is hoping will be there.  If he wanted Foster that much I think he'd be very interested in Smith - not that they're that similar, but because he 1) wants an elite LB on the field with Burfict and 2) Wants  a LB who can cover and has the lateral speed to hold the edge from the defensive backfield.  Smith is quick enough to react to guys like Bell making sudden changes in direction and leaving our defense in the dust.   James would be desirable for some of the same reasons.  He needs more playmakers in the defense.

I don't see them taking Barkley or Nelson if they are there - which I highly doubt they will be.  And there are a lot of questions about all the other top O linemen - enough that it could result in us waiting till the 2nd or 3rd round to address.

I could see them taking either Fizpatrick or Ward.   When you think of it the only top notch guy we have is Jackson.  Dennard is the next most well rounded corner with a number of strengths.  Kirkpatric is really good on long ball routes, but is really limited in quick changes of direction, lateral speed and is the worst tackler on the team.  

I doubt Fitzpatrick is there but Ward may be.  He's lightning fast, a tough press corner and a good tackler.  

I've gone to babbling.   But I think the Bengals go with D in the first round.  If they do I hope Smith is there...

Here's what I personally think could happen...

Denzel Ward is sitting there. The Bengals decided not to pick up the option on Adam Jones, so he's gone. Dennard is in the final year of his contract and the team has not extended him prior to the draft. Due to the uncertainty that the team will have for retaining him, they decide on Ward to ensure they have a good stable of CBs. They will then work on an extension with Dennard in the Summer. Also, Kirkpatrick would be a FA in four years, which would be right when Ward's rookie deal would be approaching its end. In the case of Dennard leaving, the Bengals still have a solid stable of CBs in DK, WJ3, and Ward. If Dennard is extended, the Bengals have Dennard and DK on new deals while WJ3 still has a couple years left on his rookie deal and Ward is on a rookie deal for the length of DK's contract.

It's a win-win financially for the Bengals because it safeguards them from CB injuries, Dennard leaving after this year, and/or DK's poor play.

EDIT - Or Josh Jackson from Iowa over Ward if the Bengals like him more. Basically a top CB.

(02-20-2018, 03:25 PM)jj22 Wrote: As lame as it may sound, I think a handful of us on this board could turn this team into a sb contender if given GM duties for 1 offseason. Probably any one of us.

Very Doubtful.... Fanciful idea's aren't always possible or realistic as you all make them out to be.