This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:

Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB. They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.

The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.

I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.

The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.

I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back. It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now). The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option: QB run. It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes. I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous. Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3" and 211lbs. He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.

I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits. I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.

The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side. I would re-sign Kroft. My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball. Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest. I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.

I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.

I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage. We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.

Thoughts? (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)

(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:

Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB.  They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.

The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.  

I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.

The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.

I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back.    It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now).  The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option:  QB run.  It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes.  I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous.  Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3"  and 211lbs.  He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.  

I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits.  I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.

The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side.  I would re-sign Kroft.  My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball.  Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest.  I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.

I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.  

I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage.  We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.  

Thoughts?  (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)

Need to hear more.

As of right now, who would be the 4 players that you would take with the two 1st round picks and the two 2nd round picks that we would have in this 2018 Draft and with which picks ?

I assume that you are taking Lamar Jackson at pick #12.

Then which players are the next 3 that you take with the other 1st and two 2nds ?

It's definitely interesting.  I'm open to it.

I would have gone with:

If I owed the team- every day would be like a Charlie Sheen Saturday night, but to each their own.




Nothing is crazy as I think the team is not a year away, a rebuild has to be at a minimum considered. I hate the thought of losing Green, but who is to say we don't get the next Green.

Playing Devil's advocate- Robinson is unlikely to be removed from action and Green taken instead. If I was the JAX GM, would Dalton be my answer?

If I ran this team there is simply no way AJ Green gets traded. He's a 1st ballot hall of famer.

(02-23-2018, 01:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If I ran this team there is simply no way AJ Green gets traded. He's a 1st ballot hall of famer.

Yeah I think this scenario would cost a good amount of fans... 

Trade away the best 2 players on the worst offense in the league just makes more holes to fill doesn't help it turn around. imo

(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:

Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB.  They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.

The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.  

I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.

The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.

I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back.    It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now).  The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option:  QB run.  It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes.  I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous.  Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3"  and 211lbs.  He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.  

I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits.  I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.

The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side.  I would re-sign Kroft.  My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball.  Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest.  I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.

I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.  

I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage.  We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.  

Thoughts?  (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)

This would be a clear rebuild if this happened. And if that was the case, no need to extend Dunlap or Atkins.
Also, I'm not ready for another rebuild yet. Maybe in 2-3 years.

(02-23-2018, 11:58 AM)depthchart Wrote: Need to hear more.

As of right now, who would be the 4 players that you would take with the two 1st round picks and the two 2nd round picks that we would have in this 2018 Draft and with which picks ?

I assume that you are taking Lamar Jackson at pick #12.

Then which players are the next 3 that you take with the other 1st and two 2nds ?

I would take Jackson with the #12 pick.  I would then focus on the offensive line and LB.  I would have one LB rated ahead of a few offensive linemen, but it would depend on who was there.  Didn't want to go all mock-draft on my already long post.

Bottom line:  The offense would center around Mixon/Gio, and a short passing game to Boyd/Erickson, the TEs, and the vertical threat of Ross, Core, and Malone.  

The more I think about it, the more I think the Bengals would need more in return of what I asked, but I digress...

The focus would be to design an offense around Jackson's strengths.  

I would be looking at Westerman at Center, my guards as Redmond and a draft pick (one of the early ones), Bodine at LT, and drafting a RT to compete with Fisher.  

That is about it on the offensive side of the ball.  

(02-23-2018, 01:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If I ran this team there is simply no way AJ Green gets traded. He's a 1st ballot hall of famer.

If he finds his earlier form and stays healthy, I agree.  However, I think his existence and his expense actually hamper this offense.  I know it doesn't make sense, but hear me out:

AJ gets doubled essentially every play.  The Bengals don't have talent (on the field) to take advantage of those double-teams, and they seem hell-bent on forcing balls to AJ when he isn't remotely open.  How many of Dalton's INTs came when looking at AJ?  I don't think that is a coincidence.  I also think it makes this team incredibly one-dimensional and when "Indifferent AJ" shows up, the team has no answers elsewhere.  I would rather see a system of players with skill sets than one star who doesn't generate the short-space separation needed to excel in this offense.

Not saying you are wrong, but I am just trying to explain why I think the team could be better suited without them (and I love Dalton) in the long run. 

It's a bold plan. I don't see a rebuild as a bad idea. It can be done quickly. The only problem I have is I don't know how much I want to further load up the already loaded Jags.

(02-23-2018, 01:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If I ran this team 

In the draft room with Sled.












:kiddinmang:

(02-23-2018, 03:14 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I would take Jackson with the #12 pick.  I would then focus on the offensive line and LB.  I would have one LB rated ahead of a few offensive linemen, but it would depend on who was there.  Didn't want to go all mock-draft on my already long post.

Bottom line:  The offense would center around Mixon/Gio, and a short passing game to Boyd/Erickson, the TEs, and the vertical threat of Ross, Core, and Malone.  

The more I think about it, the more I think the Bengals would need more in return of what I asked, but I digress...

The focus would be to design an offense around Jackson's strengths.  

I would be looking at Westerman at Center, my guards as Redmond and a draft pick (one of the early ones), Bodine at LT, and drafting a RT to compete with Fisher.  

That is about it on the offensive side of the ball.  

If none of our WRs can not get open with AJ drawing double coverage then how the heck are they going to get open without him?

Basically you would be trading away the only two decent players (except Boling) from an offense that was among the worst in the league last year.  You are going to need a lot of draft picks over a few years to rebuild and entire offense.

(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:

Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB.  They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.

The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.  

I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.

The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.

I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back.    It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now).  The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option:  QB run.  It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes.  I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous.  Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3"  and 211lbs.  He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.  

I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits.  I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.

The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side.  I would re-sign Kroft.  My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball.  Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest.  I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.

I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.  

I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage.  We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.  

Thoughts?  (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)

get some decent offensive lineme.n
.another linebacker ..this team will be fine

(02-23-2018, 09:44 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is one of those "From under the grass out in left field" ideas, but hear me out:

Jacksonville is in win-now mode, and has a tough decision to make at QB.  They have a great young team, and a couple pieces could put them over the top.

The Bengals could offer the Jags Dalton AND Green, for the Jags first and second round picks in the upcoming draft as well as their first and second round picks next year.  

I have no idea the cap implications for the Jags, but I think a lot of their talent is still on their rookie deals.

The Bengals could then go after Lamar Jackson, some offensive line help, and also address the LB and S positions, all in the upcoming draft.

I would design an offense around Jackson with two TE and two WR, single-back sets in rotation with 3 WR, single TE and single back.    It would be a version of what we see the Eagles run in terms of Run-Pass Option (or RPO, as we are hearing so much of now).  The unique talents of Jackson would give a third option:  QB run.  It would be like the wildcat, with a much greater emphasis on passing in quick, short strikes.  I think Jackson is horribly underestimated as a QB, and his speed and agility is ridiculous.  Before everyone jumps in on "too small, would get killed", he is 6'3"  and 211lbs.  He could easily be 220 with the proper nutrition.  

I would design his runs as the last resort and he would be instructed to take the QB slide before taking any hits.  I would focus on his durability and longevity, avoiding the hits and just trying to move the chains.

The WRs would be a combination of Ross and Core at X receiver, Boyd and Erickson at slot, and Malone and potentially a draft pick on the other side.  I would re-sign Kroft.  My draft picks at WR would be bigger, possession-type WRs, like Thomas at NO, that can take a shot and hold on to the ball.  Ross and Core would be the deep threat to keep defenses honest.  I would try to get Mixon and Gio a lot of targets as receivers as well.

I know that is crazy, and I know that it wouldn't likely happen, but I think it is fun to think of how I would try to transform our offense.  

I don't think anything frustrates a defense more than getting decent stops on first and second down, facing third-and-long only to have a QB scramble for 8 yards and a first down as the defense is playing off coverage.  We haven't had a mobile QB since Blake, and he was more elusive than downright fast.  

Thoughts?  (And I am called a Dalton apologist....but I would like to see him with Jacksonville's running game and defense...ditto AJ)

This is balsy. But it speaks change with aggression to win. I love it!

(02-23-2018, 01:20 PM)Sled21 Wrote: If I ran this team there is simply no way AJ Green gets traded. He's a 1st ballot hall of famer.

But isn't this the type of thinking that has us where were are currently? AJ has been lacking a little. I love they guy but he is starting to regress due to attitude and not talent. That can be corrected, but this is Marvins team so doubtful.

(02-23-2018, 01:40 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah I think this scenario would cost a good amount of fans... 

Trade away the best 2 players on the worst offense in the league just makes more holes to fill doesn't help it turn around. imo

Do you think? I'm not sure. If the fans think the Bengals are finally serious about winning? Shoot, I think it could bring on a whole new bandwagon of fans.

(02-23-2018, 02:50 PM)ochocincos Wrote: This would be a clear rebuild if this happened. And if that was the case, no need to extend Dunlap or Atkins.
Also, I'm not ready for another rebuild yet. Maybe in 2-3 years.

Disagree. 2-3 yrs of more pain before we address the problems? Not saying that AJ and Dalton are our problems at all. Yet, can we get rid of them and make us better? I say go for it. Why wait when 2-3yrs will deliver status quo?

(02-23-2018, 03:21 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: If he finds his earlier form and stays healthy, I agree.  However, I think his existence and his expense actually hamper this offense.  I know it doesn't make sense, but hear me out:

AJ gets doubled essentially every play.  The Bengals don't have talent (on the field) to take advantage of those double-teams, and they seem hell-bent on forcing balls to AJ when he isn't remotely open.  How many of Dalton's INTs came when looking at AJ?  I don't think that is a coincidence.  I also think it makes this team incredibly one-dimensional and when "Indifferent AJ" shows up, the team has no answers elsewhere.  I would rather see a system of players with skill sets than one star who doesn't generate the short-space separation needed to excel in this offense.

Not saying you are wrong, but I am just trying to explain why I think the team could be better suited without them (and I love Dalton) in the long run. 

Great post and your correct. Many IT's have come trying to force balls to AJ when other receivers were wide open. This is why I say over and over that Dalton is not able to adjust to pass coverage well. He makes the play in the huddle and that's where he goes. He commits sometimes without exception. I've noticed it consistently
.

(02-23-2018, 03:36 PM)McC Wrote: It's a bold plan.  I don't see a rebuild as a bad idea.  It can be done quickly.  The only problem I have is I don't know how much I want to further load up the already loaded Jags.

This is an issue McC. Not sure what we do about that except make sure we are coached up and ready to go. But? Then there's Marvin. Ugh! He installs more fear in the fans instead of the competition.

(02-23-2018, 03:39 PM)Shouldamapads Wrote: In the draft room with Sled.












:kiddinmang:

Dude! That was hilarious!

(02-23-2018, 04:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If none of our WRs can not get open with AJ drawing double coverage then how the heck are they going to get open without him?

Basically you would be trading away the only two decent players (except Boling) from an offense that was among the worst in the league last year.  You are going to need a lot of draft picks over a few years to rebuild and entire offense.

First of all, you have debated that we weren't one of the worst and continue to push the positives. Continue to do that here. Don't sit on us now! This is only a scenario. Go with it Freddy, it's actually kind of a good idea. 

(02-23-2018, 05:17 PM)cooper Wrote: get some decent offensive lineme.n
.another linebacker ..this team will be fine

Yikes! This is what many of us fear MB thinks? We need more than this.

(02-23-2018, 11:58 AM)depthchart Wrote: Need to hear more.

As of right now, who would be the 4 players that you would take with the two 1st round picks and the two 2nd round picks that we would have in this 2018 Draft and with which picks ?

I assume that you are taking Lamar Jackson at pick #12.

Then which players are the next 3 that you take with the other 1st and two 2nds ?

in my scenario we trade Dalton to the Bills at 21...
we get pick 21 plus this years 2rd rd pick of theirs, #53....

pick Jackson at 12 ....
then at pick 21 {from the Bills, target whichever O-line player that rates highest on their board....might have your choice of OC Price, or OG Hernandez, or one of the 4 top rated OT's on the board.....
there's several good OT's in the later rds...
such as Lamar Jacksons team mate at Louisville Geron Christianson or Miss st's  Martinas Rankin...both should be there in rd #2   either at our pick 46 or the pick we got in the trade, from the Bills #53...
Jackson has been compared to a taller, right handed version of Michael Vick.....

lets trade A.D. to the Bills, get 2 good picks & draft Jackson & an O-lineman....

& keep A.J. Green....

Superstar receivers don't seem to be winning a lot of SB's these days. It's all about scheme and i like SHRacerX''s ideas but we don't have the coaching to make it work.

But then again we don't have the coaching to make what we have work either.

On a pure talent level the Steelers are the best team in the AFC and they aren't getting it done either.

Look who Brady throws to other than Gronk. I mean it's hilarious ..but the scheme gets those guys open

We would be getting screwed in the deal. You want us to give away a top 12 QB(with a decent cast) and a Top 5 WR for 4 picks. Hell no man it has to be a lot more than that.

The dream draft scenarios are always entertaining. I'll pass on RG3 2.0 also.

I'd trade Dalton for a first and some change if the scenario presented itself. If the team saw a quarterback at 12 that they decided that they liked moving forward, then why not? Get Dalton's deal off the books and start over with a qb on a rookie deal. I'd still want a lot for Andy, though.

Unsure about trading Green, though. On one hand, I think we've seen his best football. The decline will come sooner than we'd like to admit, and with receivers it's usually a hard, fast fall. On the other, he's still our best player bar none. You're punting for a season or two if you let him go.

It's an interesting scenario that I wouldn't dismiss out of hand. I love the veterans. I thinking letting Whitworth go last year basically killed this team's season before it happened. Unfortunately, however, I also think that this team's strategy of forgoing any heavy activity in free agency to keep aging players on the roster is a huge mistake at this point. The Dalton-Green era stars have likely shown their best and won't get better. They'll get worse. Tying up cap hanging onto all of them is a bad idea. A couple key ones? Sure. We all know how unlikely they are to let go of a player under contract. How long would it take them to commit to an actual rebuild? Keeping guys is great, but if you aren't supplementing them with outside talent while they still have some gas in the tank, then it's for naught.