(02-24-2018, 11:31 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't see anything either Evans or Vigil did last year that made them set-in-stone starter material.  

Maybe the team just feels that their needs on the o-line are too numerous to invest an early pick in a linebacker.  That's the only justification I can envision.  They could sign a decent linebacker, I guess.  

The organization showed us last year that a player sucking monster balls for one season doesn't equate to the team moving on from the player.  I think they're going the Ogbuehi route with Vigil and I'd guess that it will go largely the same way it did for Ced.

Bodine has sucked for 4 season and they want to resign him ! Also he's another guy like you mentioned that was just handed a starting job. The jury is still out on Vigil but if he doesn't show progress in year three chances are slim he does anything in year four. The issue is we don't sign many impactful free agents and we rely almost entirely on the draft which we have pretty much sucked at as of late outside of drafting Jackson III and Lawson. So when your draft picks blow and you don't sign any good free agents, or resign back your good free agents there's a high probability that your team will blow. 

(02-24-2018, 05:23 PM)Synric Wrote: Vigil struggled on the strong side which was his first time playing that position but was good on the weakside which he played a little in college.

Same with Evans they played him at all 3 spots and he struggled as a SAM was ok in the middle but looked really good on the weakside. 

Yes young players do develop...

Then why not find a lb that has played most of it not all.his snaps at OLB 
I see more negatives than positives when a guy plays out of position 
Sound coaching there ....let's switch a guy to strong side backer when he' never played the role before 

(02-25-2018, 12:25 AM)impactplaya Wrote: Then why not find a lb that has played most of it not all.his snaps at OLB 
I see more negatives than positives when a guy plays out of position 
Sound coaching there ....let's switch a guy to strong side backer when he' never played the role before 

Lol who was the last actual 4-3 SAM drafted? Gerald Hodges 2013? 

I don't think there is one 4-3 SAM in the NFL that hasn't be switched there coming out of college. You can argue 3-4 strong sides switching I suppose but those are two completely different responsibilities.

(02-24-2018, 10:50 PM)treee Wrote: The same thing they saw/see in Rex Burkhead, Brian Leonard, and Alex Ericson

What their all short ?

I still think O-line is the No.1 priority, but linebacker is a close second. Over a period of years, it seems like we fail to invest enough high draft choices on linebackers. I didn't bother to try to establish numbers, It's just a feeling I have that we're trying to build a linebacker corp with a lot of later round guys.

(02-24-2018, 05:05 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: I always thought that "Vigil-antes" was a meme. I didn't think anyone was that serious about that. I mean, there was even a "Chuck Norris" type thread.

Honestly I don't think Vigil is THAT bad, but I don't think he's good.

That's what it is and always will be.

People just don't understand humor, and actually think people viewed Vigil was a world-beater.

(02-25-2018, 11:55 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: That's what it is and always will be.

People just don't understand humor, and actually think people viewed Vigil was a world-beater.

Either way, I hope the team picks a LB before the 3rd round.  Between Paul Dawson and now Nick Vigil, the 3rd round hasn't been the place to find good LBs.

(02-24-2018, 03:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Been a fan of this team for a long time. I've seen a lot of lbers come and go.
But Nick Vigil might be the one of the worst I've seen in quite a long time.
Someone explain to me how Vigil earned that starting job or better yet why wasn't he replaced mid season ?
Meanwhile Paul Guenther buries Marqius Flowers yet The Pats find a role for him .
How can the front office justify him even in the roster ?

The bengals don't value lber.... cause 4/3 remember lol

(02-25-2018, 12:02 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Either way, I hope the team picks a LB before the 3rd round.  Between Paul Dawson and now Nick Vigil, the 3rd round hasn't been the place to find good LBs.

I do too.

Vigil reminds me of Caleb Miller.  Marginal talent at best.

They need talent.  Real natural talent at LB.  Marvin has been striking out with picking them for quite some time.

(02-24-2018, 03:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Been a fan of this team for a long time. I've seen a lot of lbers come and go.
But Nick Vigil might be the one of the worst I've seen in quite a long time.
Someone explain to me how Vigil earned that starting job or better yet why wasn't he replaced mid season ?
Meanwhile Paul Guenther buries Marqius Flowers yet The Pats find a role for him .
How can the front office justify him even in the roster ?

Is Marvin still coach?  Did he want to draft him? If those are both yes, there is your answer.

(02-24-2018, 04:32 PM)Synric Wrote: So you cut him after one season and not give him a chance to develop?

This, but it is actually two seasons.  He flashed ability in coverage, but some of the angles he takes on tackling assignments leave him whiffing in the air.

I think with better LBs around him (Like a real MLB and Burfict back at Will) or playing with Burfict in nickel but with a better safety than Shawn Williams, he would be fine.  Do I think he will be a Pro Bowler?  No, but he appears to be solid in coverage and that is a major weakness on this team.  I think he could benefit in the run defense by better line play as well.  For as much as we pimped all the potential of Billings and Glasgow, they struggled in the middle and with the apparent loss of Topou, they need to think interior defensive line.  

Regardless, I think the point I am trying to get to is that he would probably work out fine with better defensive line play and safety help.  Right now, he needs to prove he can stay healthy.  

(02-24-2018, 07:20 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Let's see the Steelers won the division last 2 years and Bengals have flounderd with 7 and 9 and 6 9 1 in the last 2 years.
How about Marvin and Co changing a draft philosophy and actually drafting a LB high instead of drafting clowns from Utah State who get over matched by even average rb's on his best day. 
Draft a LB who' s play making ability jumps off the film.draft me a lb that I don' t have to wait 3 years to see if he has
It or not.
Yeah Marvin lucked out by finding Burfict. 
But it' time this front office took a LB that can blanket TEs and stand up RBs in the hole. Drop him in his tracks 
And oh yeah be reliable on gameday 
Vigil couldnt start for the 0 16 Browns. 

You mean like Spikes, Simmons, Rivers, Pollack, Thurman, and Maualuga?  If anything, you could argue the team has had more success when they didn't draft first round LBs.  

(02-24-2018, 09:13 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: While I would have no problem with Vigil being kept around for depth, I don't see him as the long term answer as a starter.

What I would like to see at the SAM position, is a 6'5" #240 athlete with good speed, great instincts and ball skills.  At SAM in a 4-3, I'm not as worried about how well he can shed a block from a Center or Guard, as I am about how well he jams a TE and prevents outlet passes to RB and Slots on slant routes.

Vigil appears to be cut out for none of those duties.

But the Bengals are in actual 4-3 less than a third of the time.  The Bengals need LBs that are rangy and can stick with RBs, TEs, and slot WRs.   That play Burfict made in the preseason against the Redskins was one of the more athletic plays I have ever seen a LB make (the pick 6).  Not because he scored, but because of how he read the QB and darted to the sideline, picked it, kept his feet in bounds, and sprinted to the end zone.  I swear, I thought it was a safety and I was so geeked, momentarily, that I thought one of our safeties made a play on the ball.  When I saw #55, I was just like....wow.  

For whatever reason, maybe the slow start and no playoff hopes, Burfict really seemed to slow down and struggle in coverage a bit down the stretch.  He is still far and away our best LB, and he would be the nickel backer for certain, but the question is:  will Evans improve enough to be paired with him over Vigil?  And I doubt that will happen.  Unless they get a LB in Rd 1 (which I would not be disappointed with at all, but I don't see it happening), it will be Vigil and Burfict in nickel, and that is our main defense. 

(02-24-2018, 11:31 PM)samhain Wrote: I don't see anything either Evans or Vigil did last year that made them set-in-stone starter material.  

Maybe the team just feels that their needs on the o-line are too numerous to invest an early pick in a linebacker.  That's the only justification I can envision.  They could sign a decent linebacker, I guess.  

The organization showed us last year that a player sucking monster balls for one season doesn't equate to the team moving on from the player.  I think they're going the Ogbuehi route with Vigil and I'd guess that it will go largely the same way it did for Ced.

The main reason I think they should go LB in Rd 1, if the right player is there, isn't because they need to add to Burfict, but they need to plan for life without Burfict.  They would be Burfuct. 

(02-25-2018, 12:21 AM)lone bengal Wrote: Bodine has sucked for 4 season and they want to resign him ! Also he's another guy like you mentioned that was just handed a starting job. The jury is still out on Vigil but if he doesn't show progress in year three chances are slim he does anything in year four. The issue is we don't sign many impactful free agents and we rely almost entirely on the draft which we have pretty much sucked at as of late outside of drafting Jackson III and Lawson. So when your draft picks blow and you don't sign any good free agents, or resign back your good free agents there's a high probability that your team will blow. 

This is an excellent point:  the stubbornness of this organization to admit they whiffed on a draft pick is stunning.  Aside from the kicker that hindsight says we should have never let go, when do they let draft picks that are worst-in-the-league suck ever get booted?  Very few of late (WJIII, Mixon) have had the combination of opportunity and strong performance on the field early.  Most either languish on the bench with no opportunity until their rookie deal is almost up (Westerman, Redmond, Burkhead) or get the opportunity and never make a contribution (Ogbuehi, Fisher, Bodine)- Odd that a lot of those involve the o-line...our biggest weakness, eh?

I wish they would cut bait more often.  By this, you would set a greater standard of "perform or be punted".  Too many guys draw a paycheck without really contributing at all.

On the other hand, I have to tip my hat at the team's ability to take very late round picks, or UDFA, and turn them in to nuts-and-bolts contributors.  Guys like Hewitt, Vinny Rey, Fej, Erickson, and Brandon Wilson (who was a friggin's axe murderer on teams toward the end of the season...I want to find a way to get that guy a few snaps at RB, which he also played in college with safety) are solid contributors.  

(02-25-2018, 12:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: You mean like Spikes, Simmons, Rivers, Pollack, Thurman, and Maualuga?  If anything, you could argue the team has had more success when they didn't draft first round LBs.  

Marvin drafted spikes?

(02-25-2018, 12:53 PM)TheUberHuber Wrote: Marvin drafted spikes?

Coslet drafted Spikes but I think he was speaking in general.

(02-24-2018, 03:26 PM)impactplaya Wrote: But Nick Vigil might be the one of the worst I've seen in quite a long time.
Someone explain to me how Vigil earned that starting job or better yet why wasn't he replaced mid season ?

Nick got the starting position because MB reads BB.COM. He was giving the fans what he thought they wanted. LOL...  

(02-25-2018, 02:19 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Nick got the starting position because MB reads BB.COM. He was giving the fans what he thought they wanted. LOL...  

If that's the case, he probably hates us.