(02-26-2018, 04:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree, we have plenty of WILL Linebackers, need to get a good run stopping SAM that can shed blocks.

Micah Kiser. Not good in coverage but can stuff the run well, shed blocks, and has solid instincts. Good college career production too.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/micah-kiser-1.html

(02-26-2018, 05:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Micah Kiser. Not good in coverage but can stuff the run well, shed blocks, and has solid instincts. Good college career production too.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/micah-kiser-1.html

That Virginia Linebacker eh? Sounds like a good one for us. Seems like all of our Linebackers besides Burfict and Lawson
are WILL Linebackers. Sure wish Lawson would improve in stopping the run and coverage cause he already can shed blocks
to get to the passer, would like to see this from him in getting to the RB as well.

(02-26-2018, 06:19 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: That Virginia Linebacker eh? Sounds like a good one for us. Seems like all of our Linebackers besides Burfict and Lawson
are WILL Linebackers. Sure wish Lawson would improve in stopping the run and coverage cause he already can shed blocks
to get to the passer, would like to see this from him in getting to the RB as well.

Yep. And if Lawson can eventually do that and be a true 4-3 SAM rather than just an edge rusher, Kiser could be more of a 2-down MIKE.
If not, I think Kiser at SAM with Burfict and Vigil/Evans could still be viable.

(02-26-2018, 06:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Yep. And if Lawson can eventually do that and be a true 4-3 SAM rather than just an edge rusher, Kiser could be more of a 2-down MIKE.
If not, I think Kiser at SAM with Burfict and Vigil/Evans could still be viable.

For sure if Lawson comes around this makes everything much better. I just have not been impressed with Haslett coaching
these guys up. Lawson is a natural pass rusher but he is very lacking in the other areas. Hoping Austin has a positive influence
here but Guenther was a Linebacker coach and we were still bad here with the exception of Burfict.

Was hoping we would of moved on from Haslett, thought we could of improved, one of the guys we brought back i was not
happy about. Minter and Vigil both were very underwhelming last year to say the least. But atleast Vigil and Evans are young
and both can as you say be viable at WILL.

(02-26-2018, 05:28 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Micah Kiser. Not good in coverage but can stuff the run well, shed blocks, and has solid instincts. Good college career production too.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/micah-kiser-1.html

This guy seems like he's be ready to plug and play MIKE, for about 12 years.  If they made a deal to fall back in the first, and pick up an extra second round pick, this would be a great prospect.  A true MIKE roaming the middle.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/leighton-vander%20esch?id=2560232

Quote:Analysis

Strengths
Big, long and athletic. Has history of achievement with dominant performances and state titles in two sports in high school. Former basketball standout with fluid hips and smooth movement around the field. Almost no delay in his change of direction. Has agility and quick-twitch for sudden lateral bursts in his slides to close out slashers. Triggers with compact burst to the ball. Works under climbing blockers to stay clean. Easy sideline-to-sideline range as tackler. Has athletic ability to recover and tackle despite over pursuit. Widens frame and opens arms to welcome his prey as a tackler. Generally wraps up. Very talented in coverage. Quick but smooth in his drops. Mirrors quarterback's eyes with ability to redirect from side to side as he follows. Uses active, catch-ready hands to breakup the pass or take it away. Shows real rush talent and instincts as a blitzer. May have enough ability to beat a tackle as edge rusher from time to time.
Weaknesses
Has just one year of starting experience. Still filling out his frame. Play strength has room for improvement. Has some struggles in taking on blocks and will get washed away by down blocks. Hasn't learned to use hands effectively to punch and separate. Takes himself out of tackle opportunities by attacking iso-blocks and lead blocks with a shoulder. At times, will over pursue or run himself out of position in attempt to play fast and avoid having to deal with blockers.
Draft Projection
Rounds 1-2
NFL Comparison
Karlos Dansby (early version)
Bottom Line
Vander Esch is a loose-hipped, instinctive linebacker who played in 2017 like he had a GPS tracker on the football. His production totals against both the run and pass are rare for being a first-year starter and with a frame that is primed for more muscle, his NFL ceiling is high. Vander Esch might benefit from a reduced role his rookie season while he improves his play strength and becomes more skilled at taking on blocks. He's an every-down linebacker with very good starting potential and the talent to fill up a stat sheet.

Sounds like Vander Esche is not the SAM backer like Micah Kiser is but hey Burfict can play SAM well as he shown against
the Bills. Burfict/Esche/Evans or Vigil might be pretty good. Good stuff once again Sunset.

(02-26-2018, 08:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Sounds like Vander Esche is not the SAM backer like Micah Kiser is but hey Burfict can play SAM well as he shown against
the Bills. Burfict/Esche/Evans or Vigil might be pretty good. Good stuff once again Sunset.

Vander Esche is a quality upgrade at LB. He can play 3 downs, as can Burfict, which takes care of Nickel. In today’s NFL LB’s have to be able to cover adequately. The FO has ignored that aspect for 10 years.

Bottom line is the team has to upgrade O line, LB, S, and TE in this draft.

(02-26-2018, 08:01 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: This guy seems like he's be ready to plug and play MIKE, for about 12 years.  If they made a deal to fall back in the first, and pick up an extra second round pick, this would be a great prospect.  A true MIKE roaming the middle.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2018/profiles/leighton-vander%20esch?id=2560232

Yea I like Vander Esch more than Kiser obviously for his sideline-to-sideline ability, but he doesn't sound like a LB that can shed blocks? I haven't watched tape on him though.
Also, if he goes in the late first like most predict, that likely puts him out of the running for the Bengals. I think the Bengals stick to their ways and draft a LB in the middle rounds to compete with Vigil and Evans.

Like I said before, I think at the end of the season, Evans was making great strides in his game. He is learning, and I think he will turn into a very good linebacker.

Currently Hobs is raving about the Bengals "secret weapon", the laptop . Ohhhhhhh! Never heard of such a thing.. What are these secret laptops kept so secret for so long?

OMG! OMG! OMG! I gotta get me one! Where can I find myself a laptop secret weapon ? Oh, that's right .Ebay for about $80..
Some secret, huh?
Screw that secret .I HAVE A CELL PHONE!  Take that super secret agent Hobson.. 

(02-27-2018, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I like Vander Esch more than Kiser obviously for his sideline-to-sideline ability, but he doesn't sound like a LB that can shed blocks? I haven't watched tape on him though.
Also, if he goes in the late first like most predict, that likely puts him out of the running for the Bengals. I think the Bengals stick to their ways and draft a LB in the middle rounds to compete with Vigil and Evans.

That is a shame.  I read likely a couple hundred draft profiles last night, in order to come up with 12 picks.  What I noticed about LB, is that after the top 4-5 players, you may as well just put all their names in a hat and pick one.

(02-27-2018, 08:25 AM)t3r3e3 Wrote: Vander Esche is a quality upgrade at LB.  He can play 3 downs, as can Burfict, which takes care of Nickel.  In today’s NFL LB’s have to be able to cover adequately.  The FO has ignored that aspect for 10 years.

Bottom line is the team has to upgrade O line, LB, S, and TE in this draft.

Agree with all of this for sure.

Vander Esche could be our Thomas Davis like Keuchly has in Carolina.

(02-27-2018, 10:31 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Yea I like Vander Esch more than Kiser obviously for his sideline-to-sideline ability, but he doesn't sound like a LB that can shed blocks? I haven't watched tape on him though.
Also, if he goes in the late first like most predict, that likely puts him out of the running for the Bengals. I think the Bengals stick to their ways and draft a LB in the middle rounds to compete with Vigil and Evans.

Yep, that was my concern about him playing SAM.

(02-27-2018, 11:42 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Like I said before, I think at the end of the season, Evans was making great strides in his game. He is learning, and I think he will turn into a very good linebacker.

Jordan Evans is still very young and i have hope for the guy, just open to another LB that can play SAM or MIKE.

Jordan is a WILL backer, as is Vigil from what i have seen. Burfict can play all the positions luckily.

(02-27-2018, 05:22 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a shame.  I read likely a couple hundred draft profiles last night, in order to come up with 12 picks.  What I noticed about LB, is that after the top 4-5 players, you may as well just put all their names in a hat and pick one.

Rashaan Evans is a LB'er i like in the 3rd round if he is around.

But i sure would rather us help ourselves out and grab an O-lineman in FA so we are not forced to grab one.

Would be a shame if Roquan or Edmunds are there.

Kiser strikes me as the type of lb who is easily exploited in today's nfl. The two down thumper seems to be a dying breed. Seems like mauluga part deux

(02-27-2018, 10:39 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Kiser strikes me as the type of lb who is easily exploited in today's nfl.  The two down thumper seems to be a dying breed.  Seems like mauluga part deux

Not if he can shed blocks. Maualuga could not shed blocks and neither can any of our Linebackers not named Burfict.

(02-28-2018, 03:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Not if he can shed blocks. Maualuga could not shed blocks and neither can any of our Linebackers not named Burfict.

Not to mention, Rey was one of the worst open field tacklers IMO

(02-28-2018, 04:34 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not to mention, Rey was one of the worst open field tacklers IMO

Yeah he was and he couldn't cover TE's at all.

Kiser would be much better in all aspects than Maualuga. Poor comparison.

(02-28-2018, 05:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah he was and he couldn't cover TE's at all.

Kiser would be much better in all aspects than Maualuga. Poor comparison.

Not a poor comparison. One of the knocks I’ve seen on Kiser is pass coverage. Rey was a passing down liability and given the utilization of tight ends, rbs and wr mismatches dictated by offenses I think he would be exploited. Other lbs I’d rather have


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(02-28-2018, 06:16 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: Not a poor comparison.  One of the knocks I’ve seen on Kiser is pass coverage.  Rey was a passing down liability and given the utilization of tight ends, rbs and wr mismatches dictated by offenses I think he would be exploited.  Other lbs I’d rather have


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I am just saying he wouldn't be as bad as Rey.

Who do you like that can also shed blocks and stop the run BenZoo?

Cause that is what we need at SAM.

(02-28-2018, 06:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am just saying he wouldn't be as bad as Rey.

Who do you like that can also shed blocks and stop the run BenZoo?

Cause that is what we need at SAM.

That is one of the problems I see in this draft. There are a couple MLB that are in the 240 range, but most of what I have sen and the top rated ones are all around 230. An o-line can pretty much shove these guys out of the way.

(02-28-2018, 06:29 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I am just saying he wouldn't be as bad as Rey.

Who do you like that can also shed blocks and stop the run BenZoo?

Cause that is what we need at SAM.

I don't think he will be as bad as Rey was.  But I think he will be a liability in the passing game.  I was actually excited when we got Rey in the second.  I would rather have Darius Leonard, Josey Jewell, Christian Sam or tegray scales.

I will be waiting for the combine results