(03-05-2018, 09:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Whatever the message, it must be a dumb one because Marvin let Brandon Tate do this over and over again.  I don't think we saw Erickson make that mistake more than a couple times and, if memory serves, both times were in games where they were getting pounded (I think the Chicago game was one) and maybe he was just trying to get a spark, because Lord knows they didn't have any that day. 

Which reinforces my belief it may be Marvin telling him..."bring it out" or "Don't bring it out" before the ball is even kicked. Is it really Tate and Erickson making these decisions, or is it Marvin making them? If it was not Marvin, then you would think there would be a different returner on the next return..... "Marvin making a dumb decision?" Naw, couldn't be....

(03-05-2018, 11:28 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Which reinforces my belief it may be Marvin telling him..."bring it out" or "Don't bring it out" before the ball is even kicked. Is it really Tate and Erickson making these decisions, or is it Marvin making them? If it was not Marvin, then you would think there would be a different returner on the next return..... "Marvin making a dumb decision?" Naw, couldn't be....

I dont think that's the case or you would see the same stupidity when Pacman returns the ball. Although that's not really much of a debate because I think Pacman would tell Marvin to FO and be a loser by himself and that he came to work today to win.

Hopefully the receivers also go under the microscope because outside of Green the rest are almost as dumb as rocks in the world of situational awareness. As was mentioned upthread LaFell at least runs to the right spot but even he misses things like breaking back to the QB when the blocking breaks down. We’ve seen enough times where the QB rolls out away from pressure but only AJ actually was watching the line and broke back to be open for a pass.

By extension, I hope Lazor now that he has the keys cuts a lot of the timing routes out of the playbook. Timing routes require stable pass protection which we currently do not have.

(03-05-2018, 09:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I sure liked what we saw out of Wilson on special teams coverage toward the end of the year.  You know what else he played in college, right?  

Running back.  Maybe Lazor works in a package of plays with him?  

Wilson is definately a versatile player, would like to see him used in a variety of ways. He can also play Safety.

But man, he sure was one hell of a Returner at Houston and a great gunner. Really knows how to rake the ball out of the Returners hands.

(03-05-2018, 10:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: He changed the blocking scheme.

Yep, and then we ran the ball much better. Fred keeps forgetting this.

(03-05-2018, 01:24 PM)Joelist Wrote: By extension, I hope Lazor now that he has the keys cuts a lot of the timing routes out of the playbook. Timing routes require stable pass protection which we currently do not have.

Not sure what you mean by "timing routes", but generally timing routes allow a QB to get rid of the ball quicker because he can throw to a spot before the receiver even makes the move to get open.

(03-05-2018, 02:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yep, and then we ran the ball much better. Fred keeps forgetting this.

I don't forget it at all.  I am just a little afraid that our success over 2 weeks was based on catching other teams by surprise with our new scheme.  I am afraid it may be more difficult as soon as teams have film on us and make adjustments.

I'm willing to see what Lazor can do with a full off season to implement all his system.

Or in other words to me it's kinda unfair to judge him on that train wreck off an offense/blocking/scheme/players he stepped into.

(03-04-2018, 04:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yep, like I've said before, when Lafell runs a route, Andy knows he is going to run the right route and be where he is supposed to be, and more than likely come down with the ball. He may not get as much YAC, but at least he gets the catch. Reliability trumps flash. When the others become more reliable, then LaFell won't be as valuable. Until then, I do not understand the criticism he gets constantly from some on here.

This drips with pure awesomeness. +1.

(03-05-2018, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't forget it at all.  I am just a little afraid that our success over 2 weeks was based on catching other teams by surprise with our new scheme.  I am afraid it may be more difficult as soon as teams have film on us and make adjustments.

The scheme change was actually over the last 6 weeks, not just the last 2 weeks so the Lions and Ravens had film on us in
that new scheme, they just couldn't stop it which i find encouraging. Especially with Pollack here who seems to have a good
starting relationship with Lazor already.

(03-05-2018, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't forget it at all.  I am just a little afraid that our success over 2 weeks was based on catching other teams by surprise with our new scheme.  I am afraid it may be more difficult as soon as teams have film on us and make adjustments.

I was thinking the same thing earlier in the day when I read a thread about Bodine. I was thinking, "Did Bodine actually improve or was just a scheme change the opponents will figure out after a couple more games?"

(03-05-2018, 10:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: He changed the blocking scheme.

And the blocking coach...that is a personnel change

That, and the fact that Redmond and Westerman finally saw action and he took a chance and had Boling play LT.  I wonder if they felt Boling was good enough at LT to allow them to think about RT and Center in the draft and not a LT?  I mean, is there a plug and play starter other than potentially McGlinchey?  

It all strikes me as he is willing to make changes to improve.  How novel. 

(03-05-2018, 06:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't forget it at all.  I am just a little afraid that our success over 2 weeks was based on catching other teams by surprise with our new scheme.  I am afraid it may be more difficult as soon as teams have film on us and make adjustments.

That's definitely a possibility.  I'm hoping it was more that he saw something that matched the players' strengths better, rather than exposing their weaknesses.  In other words, he wasn't trying to shove a square peg into a round hole.  We'll see soon enough, I guess.

(03-05-2018, 07:00 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: The scheme change was actually over the last 6 weeks, not just the last 2 weeks so the Lions and Ravens had film on us in
that new scheme, they just couldn't stop it which i find encouraging. Especially with Pollack here who seems to have a good
starting relationship with Lazor already.

True that, if I remember right.....it started against Cleveland, didn't it?

(03-06-2018, 10:39 AM)Wyche Wrote: True that, if I remember right.....it started against Cleveland, didn't it?

Yeah but.....it ended kinda quickly too iirc. Lost to the Steelers. Then the Bears kicked our butts. THEN the Vikings kicked our butts. The last 2 games did prove what focus and execution can do for a team. Or was that just magic? Whatever/whoever instilled that mindset is what needs to prevail for '18 and beyond. Was it Lazor? Did the players just decide to stop screwing around, and play solid NFL football? Those last two games raised as many questions as they did to provide answers. 

I want to believe Lazor is the answer. And Pollack. And Austin. All I have to do is wait and see.

(03-06-2018, 11:33 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: Yeah but.....it ended kinda quickly too iirc. Lost to the Steelers. Then the Bears kicked our butts. THEN the Vikings kicked our butts. The last 2 games did prove what focus and execution can do for a team. Or was that just magic? Whatever/whoever instilled that mindset is what needs to prevail for '18 and beyond. Was it Lazor? Did the players just decide to stop screwing around, and play solid NFL football? Those last two games raised as many questions as they did to provide answers. 

I want to believe Lazor is the answer. And Pollack. And Austin. All I have to do is wait and see.

I would guess it was because there was no pressure. What did they have to lose? Already out of the playoffs. Already got your butts smoked a few times as you noted. They were playing for pride (and next years auditions) so there's wasn't a ton of pressure to win those last few games. People were actually hoping for it, and that probably fed into a bit too. One thing i've noticed with this team over the years with marv & company is they have a hard time rising when the pressure is high (prime-time, playoffs). I really hope he's able to find a way to get his guys to play more consistently next year.

(03-06-2018, 11:33 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: Yeah but.....it ended kinda quickly too iirc. Lost to the Steelers. Then the Bears kicked our butts. THEN the Vikings kicked our butts. The last 2 games did prove what focus and execution can do for a team. Or was that just magic? Whatever/whoever instilled that mindset is what needs to prevail for '18 and beyond. Was it Lazor? Did the players just decide to stop screwing around, and play solid NFL football? Those last two games raised as many questions as they did to provide answers. 

I want to believe Lazor is the answer. And Pollack. And Austin. All I have to do is wait and see.

It did.  I think the Stooler loss took the wind out of their sails....although that's no excuse for an alleged pro team.  They still ran decent against Pitt if memory serves....and Mixon got hurt that game.

The Bears game was just pure Bush League.....I expected the Vikes to trounce us.

(03-06-2018, 11:49 AM)Wyche Wrote: It did.  I think the Stooler loss took the wind out of their sails....although that's no excuse for an alleged pro team.  They still ran decent against Pitt if memory serves....and Mixon got hurt that game.

The Bears game was just pure Bush League.....I expected the Vikes to trounce us.

And then turn right around with the next two games that showed the potential we all want(ed) to see. With makeshift groups nonetheless. The take of "no pressure" really must've applied, I guess. Playing with pride should never be a variable, especially in a pro environment. Never a single, clear-cut answer for us. 

(03-06-2018, 12:23 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: And then turn right around with the next two games that showed the potential we all want(ed) to see. With makeshift groups nonetheless. The take of "no pressure" really must've applied, I guess. Playing with pride should never be a variable, especially in a pro environment. Never a single, clear-cut answer for us. 

True, it shouldn't, but getting your teeth kicked in could do that. Didn't mean these guys don't play with pride, but more of when you get waxed like that, you tend to dig a little deeper, be a little more focused, etc.  Like you said, these guys are pros so of course they're gonna ball out, but they're also human so they may of not watched enough film that week, lifted as hard, etc. 

Probably could of worded it a little better 

(03-06-2018, 12:28 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: True, it shouldn't, but getting your teeth kicked in could do that. Didn't mean these guys don't play with pride, but more of when you get waxed like that, you tend to dig a little deeper, be a little more focused, etc.  Like you said, these guys are pros so of course they're gonna ball out, but they're also human so they may of not watched enough film that week, lifted as hard, etc. 

Probably could of worded it a little better 

We all can wear ourselves out trying to wrap words around explaining this teams failures. Bring on FA and the draft, and watch how our new coaches can change the culture. Another Spring full of hope! Let Lazor lead the way.

(03-06-2018, 12:23 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: And then turn right around with the next two games that showed the potential we all want(ed) to see. With makeshift groups nonetheless. The take of "no pressure" really must've applied, I guess. Playing with pride should never be a variable, especially in a pro environment. Never a single, clear-cut answer for us. 

Amen to that.