(03-08-2018, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess this is the big difference between me and almost everyone else here.  To me the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  I would also say that making the Super Bowl would also be a great.  But short of that I don't see a huge difference between making the playoffs and losing in game one and making the playoffs and losing in round two.  

I don't understand how people can think that winning just one playoff game in one year is an amazing accomplishment that defines success, but making the playoffs multiple years is so shitty they would rather lose and not even make the playoffs. that just does not make any sense to me.

To me a team is successful if they make the playoffs, but unless you make the Super Bowl there is no huge dividing line between losing in the first round and losing in the second round.

To win the Super Bowl they have to first win a playoff game.

No playoff game victories in 25 years definitely separates Bengals from other teams and not in a good way.

It is a major statement about the organization.

(03-08-2018, 04:46 PM)Nately120 Wrote: When did I change my position?  All I can tell you is that as a vocal Bengals fan in Steeler country people were saying things along the lines of "Let the Bengals make the playoffs, they aren't going to do anything" from 2012 onward.  The Bengals could go 16-0 in the regular season and people would expect them to meltdown in their first playoff game, because they've set the precedent that that is what they do.

Like I said, recent NFL events have shown us that the Jaguar can change his spots but the Bengal can't change its stripes.  Damn, I'm clever.

Short version - It don't take no ball o' crystal to foresee Marvin Lewis not winning.



I also remember how bad the Jaguars were for the past 10 years and guess what...they won 2 playoff games and made it to the AFC Championship game in 2017.  Teams can turn things around a lot faster than we can, it seems.  Hell, I've seen meth addicts turn their fortunes around faster than this franchise!

Keep in mind that Lewis has to deal with Mike Brown and the Jags owner is different.  

(03-08-2018, 07:26 PM)bengals67 Wrote: To win the Super Bowl they have to first win a playoff game.

To win a playoff game they have to first make the playoffs.

(03-08-2018, 07:36 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Keep in mind that Lewis has to deal with Mike Brown and the Jags owner is different.  

There were at least two of those losses that Mike had given Marv enough of a team to get a win.  At least two.

(03-08-2018, 07:26 PM)bengals67 Wrote: No playoff game victories in 25 years definitely separates Bengals from other teams and not in a good way.

The Bills have not had a ten win season  in 18 years.  To me it sounds absurd to claim they are a superior franchise to the Bengals just because they won a playoff game in 1995.

Raiders have a total of 4 wining season in the last twenty four years.

Browns have only 2 winning seasons in the last nineteen years.

When I look at the big picture I think you guys are putting way too much value on one or two playoff wins over multiple decades.

(03-08-2018, 07:41 PM)McC Wrote: There were at least two of those losses that Mike had given Marv enough of a team to get a win.  At least two.

Mike Brown had zero to do with the talent on those teams.  It was all due to coaching up draft picks.

Name the biggest free agents or players from trades on those two teams.

(03-08-2018, 07:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown had zero to do with the talent on those teams.  It was all due to coaching up draft picks.

Name the biggest free agents or players from trades on those two teams.

Now you're just trolling.  Excuse me, I'm wanted back on planet Earth.

(03-08-2018, 07:41 PM)McC Wrote: There were at least two of those losses that Mike had given Marv enough of a team to get a win.  At least two.

I think Lewis has done all he could to get the Bengals out of the hell of the 1990's and; that is, take the team to the playoffs.  I think that he would have to be provided with total control of player personnel i.e., keep Whit to take them to a playoff win.  With that said, Lewis may have reached his plateau with this team.  A change is necessary.  But I also believe that as long as Mike Brown is involved to any extent in football operations, a Super Bowl is not happening.   

I'm in the minority that likes Marvin Lewis. He has developed some of the best rosters in Bengals history including the best defense and the best offense in their history. He holds the record for thr longest playoff streak and longest win streak in Bengals history. Hes has also developed his own coaching tree with quite a few of his assistants going on to having good nfl coaching careers.

Does his 0-7 playoff record suck? Yes there's no doubt on that but I refuse to let it cloud my judgement of how good a teacher and coach Marvin really is...

(03-08-2018, 07:36 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Keep in mind that Lewis has to deal with Mike Brown and the Jags owner is different.  

Marvin has been complicit since 2010. 

(03-08-2018, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote:   To me the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl. 

(03-08-2018, 05:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is not "all or nothing" with me. 

Damn fred, you just contradicted yourself in consecutive posts.  Which is it?  Do you want them to win the big game, or you're just going to be happy with whatever?

(03-08-2018, 03:07 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Sir I respect you but you are incorrect.  It wasn't Mike Browns decision to hire Marvin it was Katie's.  Mike Brown wanted to hire Tom Coughlin.

Thank you! I always get that backwards.

(03-07-2018, 05:35 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Well, obviously the next step would be "double secret probation", as referenced by Dean Wormer in regard to Delta Tau Chi, in Animal House..

Really do not hate Marvin and know he was saddled by MB was not given free rein.

Still think he would be a good GM for Bengals.

But do think he has taken us about as far as he can and it is time for him to get promoted to FO or replaced.

Sometimes fresh blood helps immensely.

(03-08-2018, 03:15 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis changed the culture of the Cincinnati Bengals but it seems like many have forgotten this and they have forgotten how bad the Cincinnati Bengals were in the 1990s.

Do not think anybody has forgotten 90's, just scared to death of returning to the 90's. 

But is  that our only goal to be better than we were in the 90's ? 

Sure hope not. 

(03-08-2018, 07:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But then you see the same players and coaches struggle in the playoffs even when they leave the Bengals.

Carson Palmer has a higher career playoff passer rating with the Bengals than with the Cards.

Mike Zimmer needed an absolute miracle to win a playoff game and in his other two postseason games he has blown a 2 score lead in the fourth quarter and gotten blown out at home.

Wonder how that stacks up against Marvin's first 4 seasons ?

Which is better 3 out of 4 playoff appearances with a win, or 1 out of 4 playoff appearances with zero wins ? 

But agree completely with you that the goal is to make playoffs and then win SB. But would mix in winning AFC Championship as goal as well. 

But guess you did say going to SB would make you happy too, so agree completely with your seasonal goals.

(03-08-2018, 07:36 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Keep in mind that Lewis has to deal with Mike Brown and the Jags owner is different.  

.....and don't forget that the Jags were so bad, and the fans so disgusted with that owner, that the team had put tarps over several sections of bleachers because they couldn't sell tickets.  They were ready to run him out of town on a rail.

I'll give you this though, at least he had the common sense to change his approach and the culture of the team.  A far cry from the dumbass in our owner's box.

(03-08-2018, 07:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Mike Brown had zero to do with the talent on those teams.  It was all due to coaching up draft picks.

Name the biggest free agents or players from trades on those two teams.

The same list of trades and FAs you stumbled all over yourself to provide in another thread where you were defending all of the wonderful FAs and trades the team has made while Mediocre Merv has been here? Those FAs and trades? 

(03-09-2018, 01:36 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Really do not hate Marvin and know he was saddled by MB was not given free rein.

Still think he would be a good GM for Bengals.

But do think he has taken us about as far as he can and it is time for him to get promoted to FO or replaced.

Sometimes fresh blood helps immensely.

I agree. He's not a bad coach. He has limitations and there are some things he is not capable of achieving. 

(03-08-2018, 07:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The Bills have not had a ten win season  in 18 years.  To me it sounds absurd to claim they are a superior franchise to the Bengals just because they won a playoff game in 1995.

Raiders have a total of 4 wining season in the last twenty four years.

Browns have only 2 winning seasons in the last nineteen years.

When I look at the big picture I think you guys are putting way too much value on one or two playoff wins over multiple decades.

I have never compared to Bills

My main point is no other business, pro sports franchise or college team would retain Lewis for 16 years given his record. I don't need to repeat all the metrics but the one that galls me is continually losing to the Steelers - year after year after year.

Mike Brown has his game plan and sticks to it regardless of results.

He could never get away with this absent revenue sharing from TV contracts.

I have been one of the most loyal fans for over 50 years and I mainly defended them until the 2015 playoff meltdown. I am worn out by the stubborn, uncreative, lack of vision, lack of accountability management of this team.

I promise that the Reds would be way more successful with their owner than the Bengals if MLB had TV revenue sharing. He is a real businessman who worked in the real world.
He also does not depend on Reds profits to support and employ all of his family.