(03-08-2018, 02:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McGlinchey is the only tackle worth the 12th pick, but I've been reading that this draft is way more heavy with Guard talent. The latest CBS mock has us taking a Guard at 12 (Isaiah Wynn) and a Tackle in the 2nd round (Brian O'Neill). Vea should be considered, but I'm not sure he's a must-grab. CBS has him going at 17. If I knew we'd get serious in FA with the o-line, sure get Vea...but I'm assuming we'll mainly use the draft to fix things, so I want o-line, o-line, o-line.

No shiny prospect is going to change my mind on that.


1. This is reading an awful lot into one incident in Tampa. Did he have a bad reputation in Washington? He spent 5 years there, so I doubt he was very cancerous.

2. $3 million isn't a lot, and FA hasn't even begun. As jaded as I am, I don't think they're done with FA. I don't see any $8-10 million dollar-ish signings coming unfortunately, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another signing for $3-4 million and maybe some cheap reclamation signings sprinkled in. We'll see.

3. I don't think he's a sub-par player. He's an upgrade from Phat Sims and definitely an average player at least, with potential to be impactful. He showed that in Washington. That's why the Bucs signed him to a contract for 3 years, $15.75 million just last year. You don't get a contract like that for being a bum.


Lol same here. This thread has me feeling like Denny 2.0. 


Agreed. This guy is our starting DT the moment he signs.

Good points. Baker might turn out to be decent for the team, maybe not.

While I live across the bay from Tampa I really don't follow the Bucs and have no real insight into the guy.

But for the Bucs to give him a $15.75M 3 year deal, then cut him after only one year is not a positive sign and it looks like he took a hefty pay cut.

(03-08-2018, 02:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: McGlinchey is the only tackle worth the 12th pick, but I've been reading that this draft is way more heavy with Guard talent. The latest CBS mock has us taking a Guard at 12 (Isaiah Wynn) and a Tackle in the 2nd round (Brian O'Neill). Vea should be considered, but I'm not sure he's a must-grab. CBS has him going at 17. If I knew we'd get serious in FA with the o-line, sure get Vea...but I'm assuming we'll mainly use the draft to fix things, so I want o-line, o-line, o-line.

No shiny prospect is going to change my mind on that.


1. This is reading an awful lot into one incident in Tampa. Did he have a bad reputation in Washington? He spent 5 years there, so I doubt he was very cancerous.

2. $3 million isn't a lot, and FA hasn't even begun. As jaded as I am, I don't think they're done with FA. I don't see any $8-10 million dollar-ish signings coming unfortunately, but it wouldn't surprise me to see another signing for $3-4 million and maybe some cheap reclamation signings sprinkled in. We'll see.

3. I don't think he's a sub-par player. He's an upgrade from Phat Sims and definitely an average player at least, with potential to be impactful. He showed that in Washington. That's why the Bucs signed him to a contract for 3 years, $15.75 million just last year. You don't get a contract like that for being a bum.


Lol same here. This thread has me feeling like Denny 2.0. 


Agreed. This guy is our starting DT the moment he signs.

Am fine with Wynn at 12 and really want either Nelson who will be gone, Edmunds or Wynn in that order if available. 

Most say it is too high for Wynn at 12 but would be happy myself. 

Would be ecstatic if Bfines mock was right and we got Edmunds in 1st and Wynn in 2nd. Not sure either lasts that long though. 

Yet praying he is right. 

But would take Wynn in a New York minute if other two are gone. 

(03-07-2018, 01:48 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: You say that like there's no reason to complain about this franchise. 

Have you been paying attention? What do you want us to do, jump for joy every time this team makes questionable decisions? That's not how it works.

Don't blame us, blame this sorry @$$ franchise for giving us countless reasons to complain 

I agree. I absolutely have no optimism for the upcoming season, I’ve given up hope. We have a cheapskate owner and a mediocre coach who will never go away

Well ,the Browns once gave J Football a whopping 8 and a half million bucks and he didn't exactly light the world on fire.. Point being that the dollar amount in contracts don't really tell us how good or bad a player might or might not be . Usually the only thing it tells us is the kid makes more money than they're actually worth.. 
The league is littered with guys whose 2nd contracts were mistakes .

(03-08-2018, 05:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nate Livings did not play like a Bum.

Care to explain why a team working under a salary cap would just decide to give tons of money to a someone who played like a bum?

Nate "Olé" Livings didn't play like a bum? You serious Clark?

I guess Jerry Jones is as crazy as Son of Paul is cheap and stubborn?

(03-09-2018, 06:42 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Nate "Olé" Livings didn't play like a bum? You serious Clark?

I guess Jerry Jones is as crazy as Son of Paul is cheap and stubborn?

Everyone forgets that Livings was actually a middle-of-the-pack player, his ENTIRE tenure here.

The issue that existed back then, was PA having a man-crush on him, as he was starting with more snaps per game, than a clearly superior layer in Evan Mathis.

Again, we make fun of Livings and all the jazz, but they guy was always a decent guard. His situation as to WHY he was playing so much, was the actual reason why we started taking shots at him.

He wouldn't have gotten that decent contract from Dallas, if he wasn't at least halfway good.

(03-08-2018, 05:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: You mean like when Dalton throws an INT and grimaces or grins?

Good point, and yes. Some (most?) fans think everyone has to be super serious all the time because they personally take football super serious all the time.

(03-09-2018, 10:00 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Everyone forgets that Livings was actually a middle-of-the-pack player, his ENTIRE tenure here.

The issue that existed back then, was PA having a man-crush on him, as he was starting with more snaps per game, than a clearly superior layer in Evan Mathis.

Again, we make fun of Livings and all the jazz, but they guy was always a decent guard. His situation as to WHY he was playing so much, was the actual reason why we started taking shots at him.

He wouldn't have gotten that decent contract from Dallas, if he wasn't at least halfway good.

I was just about to post saying Livings (from what I recall) was actually better at guard than Bodine has been at center.
Livings got his nice contract from Dallas because he had a decent year that year prior.
Bengals fans laughed though because he wasn't that consistent the years before that, so we were confident he was going to regress back to the mean.

(03-09-2018, 10:00 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Everyone forgets that Livings was actually a middle-of-the-pack player, his ENTIRE tenure here.

The issue that existed back then, was PA having a man-crush on him, as he was starting with more snaps per game, than a clearly superior layer in Evan Mathis.

Again, we make fun of Livings and all the jazz, but they guy was always a decent guard. His situation as to WHY he was playing so much, was the actual reason why we started taking shots at him.

He wouldn't have gotten that decent contract from Dallas, if he wasn't at least halfway good.

That is a good point about PA......I just recall several whiffs, especially in that playoff game in Houston.

(03-09-2018, 10:14 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Good point, and yes. Some (most?) fans think everyone has to be super serious all the time because they personally take football super serious all the time.

Amen to that ocho.....I guess that's why I mostly post sarcastic quips these days instead of full blown, meltdown tirades like I used to.  I used to be WAY more vested in it than I am now.  Occasionally, I still get on with the stats and all that, but not nearly as in depth as I used to in rather lengthy debates.  I've mellowed, and recently even gone as far as somewhat apathetic....although none of us that post here regularly can claim realistically that we aren't interested....lol.

(03-09-2018, 10:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I was just about to post saying Livings (from what I recall) was actually better at guard than Bodine has been at center.
Livings got his nice contract from Dallas because he had a decent year that year prior.
Bengals fans laughed though because he wasn't that consistent the years before that, so we were confident he was going to regress back to the mean.

Better than Bodine isn't saying a whole lot.....and he did regress.  Didn't he wind up out of the league in short order?  

(03-09-2018, 06:42 AM)Wyche Wrote: Nate "Olé" Livings didn't play like a bum? You serious Clark?

100% serious.

I do not let message board myths control my vision of reality.  Remember when almost everyone here claimed that "playing Peko is proof that the Bengals don't care about winning"?  Remember how the Broncos who had a great defense and were one year removed from winning the Super Bowl paid him more than the Bengals to start for them?

Just because it is popular opinion on these boards does not make it true.  Unless you all want to claim that you are smarter than the coaches of one of the best defenses in recent memory.

(03-09-2018, 10:00 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: The issue that existed back then, was PA having a man-crush on him, as he was starting with more snaps per game, than a clearly superior layer in Evan Mathis.

In 2009 Mathis started in front of livings because he deserved to.

In 2010 Mathis was an out of shape slob who did not deserve to start in front of Livings.  That is why Mathis had to settle for a league minimum contract to be a back up in Philly despite having 22 career starts.

(03-09-2018, 11:07 AM)Wyche Wrote: That is a good point about PA......I just recall several whiffs, especially in that playoff game in Houston.


Amen to that ocho.....I guess that's why I mostly post sarcastic quips these days instead of full blown, meltdown tirades like I used to.  I used to be WAY more vested in it than I am now.  Occasionally, I still get on with the stats and all that, but not nearly as in depth as I used to in rather lengthy debates.  I've mellowed, and recently even gone as far as somewhat apathetic....although none of us that post here regularly can claim realistically that we aren't interested....lol.


Better than Bodine isn't saying a whole lot.....and he did regress.  Didn't he wind up out of the league in short order?  

Livings only played one season in Dallas and didn't play again after that.

But my point is Livings at least was able to convince some team to make him a starter and give him decent money outside of the Bengals, whereas I can't see any other team that would do that with Bodine. Yet this team seems to want to bring back Bodine.

(03-08-2018, 05:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Nate Livings says hey.

(03-08-2018, 05:32 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Shake, generally love the stuff you write, but I do need to point out that you just used the exact same argument Fred does when he defends Paul Alexander having Evan Mathis on the bench while Nate Livings started. He points to the contract that the Cowboys gave Livings.

Oopsie. 

Maybe I should've added "usually". Teams don't usually pay guys who have been scrubs. There either has to be potential or past production. Maybe the Cowboys mistakenly saw potential with "Nasty" Nate. Chris Baker was getting paid based on his production over the previous 2 years.

(03-09-2018, 11:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2009 Mathis started in front of livings because he deserved to.

In 2010 Mathis was an out of shape slob who did not deserve to start in front of Livings.  That is why Mathis had to settle for a league minimum contract to be a back up in Philly despite having 22 career starts.

Fred, he was an out-of-shape slob that still played better and was a superior player, to Livings.

I'm not one of the usual on here that doesn't know this info, as I was firmly embroiled in PFF and their stats at the time; Livings had a terrible 2010 on the whole, but the crappiness was spared a bit, by the final 3 games (particularly, the Cleveland game, which spiked his stats and grade to death,). Mathis, in circa 200 snaps or so, graded higher and had better numbers, in YPC behind him and pressures surrendered per game.

You can pull that argument to whomever you want, can't pull it on me.

(03-07-2018, 01:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/07/chris-baker-visited-bengals/

Baker is a 30 year old DT who played for the Redskins and most recently the Bucs. He's started 56 games with 201 tackles and 12.0 sacks.

He's 6'2" and 320 lbs. Probable Peko replacement.

at the risk of dragging this thread back on topic....

I like this signing and I don't think its quite the scraping the bottom of the barrel that some seem to think. 

He's not a Bobby Hart type of acquisition - he has performed at a high level in the league,  he is being re-united with two coaches who personally coached him and so know exactly what they are getting - as opposed to conjecture based on reported incidents.

I'm hoping for more like a Thomas Howard type of impact - player of genuine starter quality who comes in and gives us an upgrade for a year (maybe more) whilst we wait for young 'uns/draftees to emerge.

(03-09-2018, 12:54 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Fred, he was an out-of-shape slob that still played better and was a superior player, to Livings.

I'm not one of the usual on here that doesn't know this info, as I was firmly embroiled in PFF and their stats at the time; Livings had a terrible 2010 on the whole, but the crappiness was spared a bit, by the final 3 games (particularly, the Cleveland game, which spiked his stats and grade to death,). Mathis, in circa 200 snaps or so, graded higher and had better numbers, in YPC behind him and pressures surrendered per game.

You can pull that argument to whomever you want, can't pull it on me.

PFF individual rankings are a joke.

I trust NFL scouts over the people doing the rankings for PFF.

(03-09-2018, 01:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: PFF individual rankings are a joke.

I trust NFL scouts over the people doing the rankings for PFF.

ignore him...hecwill eventually go away

(03-08-2018, 03:22 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Yep, and I'm thinking we take Edmunds....

I kind of hope not.

He's the type of guy with the potential to derail an attempt to upgrade the team:   a high ceiling guy with incredible measurables, but who a number of guys in the media (Ross Tucker [with Greg Cosell in agreement if I remember correctly] expressed concerns in a podcast that he does not play like his measurable and appears to have problems with recognition and decision-making).

Drew Boylhart from the Huddle Report:

CONCERNS -  "Tremaine struggles mentally on the field and this suggest that he doesn’t do a lot of film work or…he struggles to bring what he does in practice to the game. He really looks lost out there at times and does not show leadership skills because of this issue. That being said he might look lost because he went to class and studied and that means it might take some time for Tremaine to catch up on the field mentally but when he does he will impact big time. The talent, size, speed, and unique cover skills say so."

and even Lance Zierlein in his very positive review in NFL.com:

"WEAKNESSES:Instincts are average and relies on athletic gifts. Can be a step slow to diagnose. Lured by misdirection. Will take random downhill paths that trap him in the quagmire. Patience is lacking. Races ahead of plays and voids his leverage and run fits at times. Needs to add more upper and lower body strength. Average base strength and high center of gravity create issues holding up at the point of attack. Needs to be quicker to punch in order to maintain clearance. Mental busts in man coverage hurt his team. Takes time to process moving pieces."

I think he's a high risk/ high reward player.   He has the potential to be all world, but when the mental part of his game comes into question I get very concerned.   I mean if it's just a matter of learning what he has not been exposed to, fine.   But if he just doesn't have it upstairs there's no cure.   I think of Gresham, Ogbuehi and Brian Bosworth.  Given the failures of our last several whiffs I don't think we should take the risk.

I really like Rashaad Evans.   12 is high for him, but I think he is a very reliable pick that doesn't have the high end measurable, but plays really good on film.   He'd be a big upgrade in the middle that would change our defense.  Really high floor and possible higher ceiling than folks think.   Reports are that he has really grown in the last 2 years.

I'm very concerned he'll be a Steeler.

Seems a bit of a stretch to label someone a 'locker room cancer' because they may have actually cracked a smile after a mistake as if having any kind of sense of humor is the worst possible thing any player can do when your season is already pretty much over half way through the season..
Some people take football WAY TO SERIOUS as if a losing season is going to lead the city and all surrounding areas to eminent ruin.. 
I dunno though..Cleveland isn't known as the serial killer capital of the United States for nothing although it's kind of tough to imagine that the motivation to become a serial killer is directly linked to the Browns win and loss record..  If so then obviously cities like Boston and Pittsburgh and others with winning teams should be nearly crime free..  Wanna solve your city's crime problems? Make sure your football team always wins.. 
Oh wait.. This was about Chris Baker.. I'm fully expecting Cincinnati to have to ensure the outbreak of serial murderers this upcoming season.. Gotta connect the dots here folks. ..