(03-12-2018, 01:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The question was not about one year (2018).  The question was about the last 15 years.

I took into account the past 15 years with past tense phrases like "would have rather" in my sentence shown below.

"If Team B is the Jacksonville Jaguars, then I would have rather rooted for them because they are on the verge of a much Brighter Future."

I also didn't limit the future to just 2018 since I linked the Jaguars "brighter future" to having Tom Coughlin and Doug Marrone working together "going forward".

Team B is gaining steam Fred.

(03-08-2018, 07:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As a fan which team would you rather have rooted for over the last 15 years.  Neither team has made it to the Super Bowl

Team "A"... 125-112-3 ... 5 losing seasons ... 7 playoff seasons ... 0-7 playoff record
Team "B"...  97-143-0  ... 9 losing seasons ... 3 playoff seasons ... 3-3 playoff record

Well, it's obvious the answer you have in mind is Team A.   But the truth is Team B has been more successful because it's gotten closer to the ultimate goal.

Team A is just a sad story of a lot of wasted opportunity that would have obviously cost their HC his job.

(03-09-2018, 12:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I strongly disagree.

Most NFL fans care about winning.  When another team is consistently winning a lot more games than them they don't really buy the argument that is so popular around here that "It is better to lose a lot more games than go to the playoffs with Marvin Lewis"

For 9 years from '08 to '16 the Jags had zero winning seasons and averaged LESS THAN 5 WINS PER YEAR.  There is no way in hell you could convince them that they were better off than the Bengals who were going to the playoffs 6 times.  No other fans in the league love hating their owner more than winning games.

One of your lies.   And yet another.

And what have you proven?  Not a damn thing.

And where the two teams stand now? One is running backwards from their "glory" and the other is basking in theirs now. Which is more successful right now, which, obviously, is all that matters? What does your goofy premise say about that?

(03-12-2018, 02:01 PM)McC Wrote: Well, it's obvious the answer you have in mind is Team A.   But the truth is Team B has been more successful because it's gotten closer to the ultimate goal.

Fifty percent of the people who have voted so far disagree with your definition of "truth".

Perhaps you should edit your post to say "in my opinion".

(03-12-2018, 02:12 PM)McC Wrote: And where the two teams stand now?  One is running backwards from their "glory" and the other is basking in theirs now.    Which is more successful right now, which, obviously, is all that matters?   What does your goofy premise say about that?

The whole point of my thread was not to look at just 1 year.  It was to look at a span of 15 years.

There is a huge debate on these boards about how important a playoff win is.  This thread is an attempt to see how much value people put in playoff wins as compared to regular season consistency and playoff appearances.

Maybe I shoiuld have explained this from the beginning, but I though most people would be able to figure it out.

(03-12-2018, 02:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The whole point of my thread was not to look at just 1 year.  It was to look at a span of 15 years.

There is a huge debate on these boards about how important a playoff win is.  This thread is an attempt to see how much value people put in playoff wins as compared to regular season consistency and playoff appearances.

Maybe I shoiuld have explained this from the beginning, but I though most people would be able to figure it out.

And what have you proven?

(03-12-2018, 02:20 PM)McC Wrote: And what have you proven?

That a lot of people disagree with the claim that the only way to measure success of an NFL team is in playoff wins.  You know, that thing you call "truth" but is really just your opinion.

(03-12-2018, 02:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That a lot of people disagree with the claim that the only way to measure success of an NFL team is in playoff wins.  You know, that thing you call "truth" but is really just your opinion.

Unless you're Mike Brown, playoff wins is the measure of success.  It always has been.  If the goal is to win a SB, you can never reach that goal if you can't win one playoff game.

If you've been to the playoffs seven times without a single win, you have established your ceiling.  After two or three of those losses in a row, hopelessness sets in.  We're in the playoffs again.  So frigging what?  We're running in place, stuck in third gear.  Enthusiasm wanes.  

But you don't think that should have any effect on fans when that is just the natural reaction to being fed five big doses of failure in a row.  And not just failure.  Humiliating, nauseating, maddening failure.  Bitter pills leave a bitter taste.  Stops feeling like any kind of success when the last image is mind boggling failure.

(03-12-2018, 02:38 PM)McC Wrote: Unless you're Mike Brown, playoff wins is the measure of success.  It always has been.

Almost half of the members who have voted in this poll disagree with you.

Your opinion doe not define "truth".

(03-12-2018, 02:38 PM)McC Wrote: Unless you're Mike Brown, playoff wins is the measure of success.  It always has been.  If the goal is to win a SB, you can never reach that goal if you can't win one playoff game.

If you've been to the playoffs seven times without a single win, you have established your ceiling.  After two or three of those losses in a row, hopelessness sets in.  We're in the playoffs again.  So frigging what?  We're running in place, stuck in third gear.  Enthusiasm wanes.  

But you don't think that should have any effect on fans when that is just the natural reaction to being fed five big doses of failure in a row.  And not just failure.  Humiliating, nauseating, maddening failure.  Bitter pills leave a bitter taste.  Stops feeling like any kind of success when the last image is mind boggling failure.

I think the real answer is a bit more complicated.

At least for me, there are tiers.

1) Have a winning season
2) Make the playoffs
3) Win a playoff game
4) Make conference championship
5) Make Super Bowl
6) Win Super Bowl

Bengals have done 1 and 2. Next logical step is 3. If you're not climbing that progression, you're treading water at best.
And the Bengals have been able to consistently do 1 and 2, so number 2 has become the expectation for (some of) the fan base.

(03-12-2018, 02:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Almost half of the members who have voted in this poll disagree with you.

Your opinion doe not define "truth".

What?  Your thread is titled, "Which team has been more successful?".  You are asking us to compare teams, not if either was actually successful.  

Then your poll question switches to "Who would you rather root for?" which is a completely different question than the thread title.  Then you reply to a quote about a playoff win defining success by citing the results of the poll.  This thread is all over the place and makes no sense.

Team B, lol.

(03-08-2018, 10:16 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Now that's what I'm talkin about. Go Bengals! 

I hope you guys are joking. If I could take 14 and 2 every year I would not give a shit who we lost to.

(03-12-2018, 09:36 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: What?  Your thread is titled, "Which team has been more successful?".  You are asking us to compare teams, not if either was actually successful.  

Then your poll question switches to "Who would you rather root for?" which is a completely different question than the thread title.  Then you reply to a quote about a playoff win defining success by citing the results of the poll.  This thread is all over the place and makes no sense.

This thread is very simple.

Which team has been most successful SHOULD BE the same as the team you would want to root for.  That is because most sports fans care about wins and losses instead of just how much the personally hate the owner and/or coach.

And the point is how much people value a few playoff wins when compared to more consistent winning with fewer losing seasons.

Nothing really confusing except people trying to explain why they would like to root for a consistent loser that has never won a championship and has just 3 playoff wins in 15 years.

So, the gist I get is......we were all idiots back in the hey day of the 80s when we had losing seasons, coupled with two Super Bowl runs for rooting for the Bengals.

(03-13-2018, 12:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: So, the gist I get is......we were all idiots back in the hey day of the 80s when we had losing seasons, coupled with two Super Bowl runs for rooting for the Bengals.

We have been living in the UTOPIA time period under Marvin Lewis these past recent years as far as Fred is concerned.

Longing for the 80's Super Bowl days would be considered a back handed swipe at Marvin to Fred and may initiate him to create another thread where Team B is the Ken Anderson 80's Super Bowl team and Team C is the Boomer team with Team A being the present day Marvin Bengals.

The Head Coach alone makes Team A better in the world of Toast and we are living in the Good old days right now.

Ken Anderson and Boomer were one year wonders you see, while our current Marvin teams are Consistent with a possible shot at a Wildcard birth possibly right around the corner.

Fred can see this present day UTOPIA while most of the rest of us are blinded by hate for Mike & Marvin which does not allow us to see & enjoy it.

Our loss but we will have plenty of chances in the future to see the light because it is his duty to enlighten all that will listen.   :heart:

(03-13-2018, 12:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: So, the gist I get is......we were all idiots back in the hey day of the 80s when we had losing seasons, coupled with two Super Bowl runs for rooting for the Bengals.

As usual you don't get the gist at all.

This thread was drafted to see if people really are willing to tradee a bunch of winning seasons for losing seasons in exchange for 3 playoff wins over 15 years.

Nothing more.  Nothing less.

But it is clear that some people are embarrassed by the results so they are getting testy with me for bringing it up.

(03-13-2018, 01:20 PM)depthchart Wrote: We have been living in the UTOPIA time period under Marvin Lewis these past recent years as far as Fred is concerned.

Longing for the 80's Super Bowl days would be considered a back handed swipe at Marvin to Fred and may initiate him to create another thread where Team B is the Ken Anderson 80's Super Bowl team and Team C is the Boomer team with Team A being the present day Marvin Bengals.

The Head Coach alone makes Team A better in the world of Toast and we are living in the Good old days right now.

Ken Anderson and Boomer were one year wonders you see, while our current Marvin teams are Consistent with a possible shot at a Wildcard birth possibly right around the corner.

Fred can see this present day UTOPIA while most of the rest of us are blinded by hate for Mike & Marvin which does not allow us to see & enjoy it.

Our loss but we will have plenty of chances in the future to see the light because it is his duty to enlighten all that will listen. 

You guys want to know how to spot someone I have proven wrong in another thread?

They make posts like this about me.  Since they can't hang with me in a discussion involving what I really say they make up a bunch of silly stuff like this.

(03-13-2018, 03:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You guys want to know how to spot someone I have proven wrong in another thread?

They make posts like this about me.  Since they can't hang with me in a discussion involving what I really say they make up a bunch of silly stuff like this.

I saw what you really say on this thread.

Us fans are lucky to get to root for Marvin's Bengals versus Tom Coughlin's Jaguars who are getting ready to sign All Pro Guard Andrew Norwell to add to their stacked roster for a potential Super Bowl run.

Go Team A huh Fred.