(03-16-2018, 10:09 AM)HuDey Wrote: Ok. So in some parallel universe where the only thing that happened differently is the play of the defense, we got trounced in that game. Got it.

Peep the stats. In 2005, Pitt scored what....31?   The NYJ beat us with Butt Fumble....although the passing game struggled, Cedric Benson ran his ass off.  The Colts hung 26 on us.  The first Texans game, Dalton really struggled with 3 turnovers, but the defense gave up 188 yards rushing. The Chargers ran ALL OVER the defense.  Against the Chargers, Dalton had a similar game to McCarron, a fumble lost, 2 INTs (although he threw for 334 yards), and Gio lost a fumble....the Chargers ran for 196 yards.  The other Texans game, Schaub threw for 262 yards, and they ran for another 158,  Rey Mauluga made Owen Daniels look like Kelen Winslow, Sr.....Daniels had 91 yards that game.

Pitt 2015?  They gave up 18 points, had an INT, held Pig Pen to 202 yards passing, and recovered a fumble.  The Bengals lost 3 fumbles and had an INT themselves.  Looks like the defense bailed out the offense for a change to me.  However, that's just looking at it objectively.

(03-16-2018, 10:16 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Same parallel universe where Dalton was given the chance to make a game winning throw in the end of the fourth quarter of a playoff game and missed.

Got it now?

Except that actually happened against Houston in the 2013 game. We could have went ahead with less than 3 minutes remaining with a touchdown and extra point. Just needed a play to be made. But in the land of make believe, maybe the defense held them to 12 points instead of 19 and we won!

(03-16-2018, 10:25 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Peep the stats. In 2005, Pitt scored what....31?   The NYJ beat us with Butt Fumble....although the passing game struggled, Cedric Benson ran his ass off.  The Colts hung 26 on us.  The first Texans game, Dalton really struggled with 3 turnovers, but the defense gave up 188 yards rushing. The Chargers ran ALL OVER the defense.  Against the Chargers, Dalton had a similar game to McCarron, a fumble lost, 2 INTs (although he threw for 334 yards), and Gio lost a fumble....the Chargers ran for 196 yards.  The other Texans game, Schaub threw for 262 yards, and they ran for another 158,  Rey Mauluga made Owen Daniels look like Kelen Winslow, Sr.....Daniels had 91 yards that game.

Pitt 2015?  They gave up 18 points, had an INT, held Pig Pen to 202 yards passing, and recovered a fumble.  The Bengals lost 3 fumbles and had an INT themselves.  Looks like the defense bailed out the offense for a change to me.  However, that's just looking at it objectively.

What part of this makes me wrong for saying that AJ McCarron made a play when we needed a play made?

(03-15-2018, 10:40 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The lack of interest in FA and the offer he just took ($5 million per + incentives to be a placeholder for an inevitable top draft pick) leads me to believe there probably weren't many trade offers. I'd guess the Browns may have been the only takers, and even they changed their minds when they could've had him without parting with draft picks.

Maybe so but disagree and think that lack of interest was per the depth in this years draft plus FA at QB position coupled with the asking price.

Believe he was way more marketable before last season when it was obvious it was time to move him or lose him per not as many available. Think we would have gotten a second round pick all day in lieu of the lower comp pick we will have to wait for. 

Know there was still a decision on if would be restricted or unrestricted but that was a gamble and kind of a dick move trying to keep him from pursuing his dream of being an NFL starter. 
  
Still it is a business, so get it. Yet still thought the iron was hot last off season if priced right but the time to strike was passed by. Oh well, sometimes you win waiting until last second for higher price like Carson and some times you lose. Think a bird in hand is always better than two in the bush.

(03-15-2018, 03:35 PM)HuDey Wrote: Stat sheet be damned, the guy made a play when we needed a play made. That doesn’t make him a superstar by any means, but I am glad that he will now get the chance to show whether or not he can do that with any sort of consistency.

(03-16-2018, 09:01 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....but.....to be fair to the other 3 QBs during Mediocre Merv's tenure.....that was the ONLY time the defense showed up to play in the postseason as well.  If the defense doesn't play as well as it did, the Stoolers easily trounce us due to the 3 fumbles and 1 INT AJM threw.  People often forget the other 21 guys on the field.

(03-16-2018, 10:09 AM)HuDey Wrote: Ok. So in some parallel universe where the only thing that happened differently is the play of the defense, we got trounced in that game. Got it.

(03-16-2018, 10:25 AM)Wyche Wrote: Peep the stats. In 2005, Pitt scored what....31?   The NYJ beat us with Butt Fumble....although the passing game struggled, Cedric Benson ran his ass off.  The Colts hung 26 on us.  The first Texans game, Dalton really struggled with 3 turnovers, but the defense gave up 188 yards rushing. The Chargers ran ALL OVER the defense.  Against the Chargers, Dalton had a similar game to McCarron, a fumble lost, 2 INTs (although he threw for 334 yards), and Gio lost a fumble....the Chargers ran for 196 yards.  The other Texans game, Schaub threw for 262 yards, and they ran for another 158,  Rey Mauluga made Owen Daniels look like Kelen Winslow, Sr.....Daniels had 91 yards that game.

Pitt 2015?  They gave up 18 points, had an INT, held Pig Pen to 202 yards passing, and recovered a fumble.  The Bengals lost 3 fumbles and had an INT themselves.  Looks like the defense bailed out the offense for a change to me.  However, that's just looking at it objectively.

(03-16-2018, 10:52 AM)HuDey Wrote: What part of this makes me wrong for saying that AJ McCarron made a play when we needed a play made?

It doesn't, as you can see by my initial response, I just noted that....to be fair....without the defense's good effort, he most likely doesn't even have a chance to make that play with all of the turnovers.  That wasn't the case in Mediocre Merv's 6 other playoff debacles.

(03-16-2018, 10:25 AM)Wyche Wrote: Peep the stats. In 2005, Pitt scored what....31?   The NYJ beat us with Butt Fumble....although the passing game struggled, Cedric Benson ran his ass off.  The Colts hung 26 on us.  The first Texans game, Dalton really struggled with 3 turnovers, but the defense gave up 188 yards rushing. The Chargers ran ALL OVER the defense.  Against the Chargers, Dalton had a similar game to McCarron, a fumble lost, 2 INTs (although he threw for 334 yards), and Gio lost a fumble....the Chargers ran for 196 yards.  The other Texans game, Schaub threw for 262 yards, and they ran for another 158,  Rey Mauluga made Owen Daniels look like Kelen Winslow, Sr.....Daniels had 91 yards that game.

Pitt 2015?  They gave up 18 points, had an INT, held Pig Pen to 202 yards passing, and recovered a fumble.  The Bengals lost 3 fumbles and had an INT themselves.  Looks like the defense bailed out the offense for a change to me.  However, that's just looking at it objectively.

Oh the horror of it all ! 

Please stop reminding me of the nightmares that haunt my dreams often. 

(03-16-2018, 11:06 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: It doesn't, as you can see by my initial response, I just noted that....to be fair....without the defense's good effort, he most likely doesn't even have a chance to make that play with all of the turnovers.  That wasn't the case in Mediocre Merv's 6 other playoff debacles.

I agree the defense kept it close, giving AJ the opportunity to make that play to give us the lead. He made the play.

2013 against Houston, the defense kept it close (even scoring our only touchdown). We had the opportunity to take the lead with around 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. We needed a touchdown and an extra point. That drive petered out on the Houston 36 yard line. We lost by 6. Play not made.

(03-16-2018, 11:27 AM)HuDey Wrote: I agree the defense kept it close, giving AJ the opportunity to make that play to give us the lead. He made the play.

2013 against Houston, the defense kept it close (even scoring our only touchdown). We had the opportunity to take the lead with around 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. We needed a touchdown and an extra point. That drive petered out on the Houston 36 yard line. We lost by 6. Play not made.

Wasn't that when AJ dropped the TD pass?

(03-16-2018, 11:28 AM)McC Wrote: Wasn't that when AJ dropped the TD pass?

Dalton also threw a beautiful strike to AJ in the SD game, which AJ dropped at the goal line.

(03-16-2018, 11:27 AM)HuDey Wrote: I agree the defense kept it close, giving AJ the opportunity to make that play to give us the lead. He made the play.

2013 against Houston, the defense kept it close (even scoring our only touchdown). We had the opportunity to take the lead with around 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. We needed a touchdown and an extra point. That drive petered out on the Houston 36 yard line. We lost by 6. Play not made.

That is true.  As I said, you weren't wrong.....it's just worth noting that the Pitt game was probably our defense's best effort.  They had at least one sack that game too.....knocked Pig Pen out of the game for a bit.  They may have had more, I just don't recall.  What's frustrating is, we always seem to play like shit on offense in the playoffs regardless of who's under center, Palmer to Henry notwithstanding.  Sometimes, all units played like dookie.....but the D really came to life after the brutal hit on Gio.  That seemed to spark them.  I just wish the team could find that spark from the opening kickoff.

(03-16-2018, 11:28 AM)McC Wrote: Wasn't that when AJ dropped the TD pass?

Nope. It was overthrown. Green didn’t even get a finger on it.

(03-16-2018, 11:28 AM)McC Wrote: Wasn't that when AJ dropped the TD pass?

He did, but that wasn't exactly an easy catch either, as I recall.  IIRC, the bail sailed on Dalton, and it would have been a great catch had he made it.  It wasn't exactly in the bread basket.

(03-16-2018, 11:34 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Dalton also threw a beautiful strike to AJ in the SD game, which AJ dropped at the goal line.

That one hurt.  We're right back in the game if he hauls that one in, or Gio doesn't fumble near the goalline, or we don't abandon BJGE so early......man, it just seems everyone chokes.

(03-16-2018, 11:45 AM)WychesWarrior Wrote: That is true.  As I said, you weren't wrong.....it's just worth noting that the Pitt game was probably our defense's best effort.  They had at least one sack that game too.....knocked Pig Pen out of the game for a bit.  They may have had more, I just don't recall.  What's frustrating is, we always seem to play like shit on offense in the playoffs regardless of who's under center, Palmer to Henry notwithstanding.  Sometimes, all units played like dookie.....but the D really came to life after the brutal hit on Gio.  That seemed to spark them.  I just wish the team could find that spark from the opening kickoff.

Truth. We haven’t had a good showing by the offense in the playoffs since pre-Marvin. That has to change if we are ever to get that monkey off our backs.

(03-16-2018, 11:58 AM)HuDey Wrote: Truth. We haven’t had a good showing by the offense in the playoffs since pre-Marvin. That has to change if we are ever to get that monkey off our backs.

 Absolutely man.  A lot of it has been QB play.....it's pretty telling when your best performance rating wise was AJM's 68 or so.  There just has been so much fail across the board though.

(03-16-2018, 10:45 AM)HuDey Wrote: Except that actually happened against Houston in the 2013 game. We could have went ahead with less than 3 minutes remaining with a touchdown and extra point. Just needed a play to be made. But in the land of make believe, maybe the defense held them to 12 points instead of 19 and we won!

Dalton drove us 52 yards in that situation.  If the defense had given him the ball on the other teams 45 yard line like they did with Mccarron he may very well have scored a td.

Plus in '12 Dalton was facing the #7 defense in the league while Mccarron was working against the #21 defense.

And the #2 wr on the '12 Bengals was Andrew Hawkins and the TE was Jermain Gesham , while the #2 wr on the '15 team was Marvin Jones and the TE was Tyler Eifert.

But, yeah, McCarron completing one pass proves he was a much more clutch QB than Andy Dalton.  Any idea why Mr. Clutch was never able to beat a team that won more than 5 games in '15 while Dalton beat three playoff teams?

(03-16-2018, 11:58 AM)HuDey Wrote: Truth. We haven’t had a good showing by the offense in the playoffs since pre-Marvin. That has to change if we are ever to get that monkey off our backs.

I'll agree with that one.  No matter what our defense does in the post-season, our offense reverts to the 32nd ranked offense in the league every time.  Seriously, during our 5 straight one-n-dones did we ever score more than the 32nd ranked team that year did on average?

2011
Our offense scored 10
32. Rams 12.1

2012
Our offense scored 6
32. Chiefs 13.2

2013
Our offense scored 10
32. Jaguars 15.4

2014
Our offense scored 10
32. Jaguars 15.6

2015
Our offense scored 16!
31.  Cowboys  17.2
32. 49ers 14.9


So, only in 2015 when we "shoulda won" did our offense actually score more than the 32nd ranked offense that year, and we still would have been behind the 31st ranked offense.

(03-16-2018, 12:47 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton drove us 52 yards in that situation.  If the defense had given him the ball on the other teams 45 yard line like they did with Mccarron he may very well have scored a td.

Plus in '12 Dalton was facing the #7 defense in the league while Mccarron was working against the #21 defense.

And the #2 wr on the '12 Bengals was Andrew Hawkins and the TE was Jermain Gesham , while the #2 wr on the '15 team was Marvin Jones and the TE was Tyler Eifert.

But, yeah, McCarron completing one pass proves he was a much more clutch QB than Andy Dalton.  Any idea why Mr. Clutch was never able to beat a team that won more than 5 games in '15 while Dalton beat three playoff teams?

I did not state that Mc is better than Dalton.
I did not state that Mc is more clutch than Dalton.
I did state that Mc made a key play at a key moment in a playoff game.
I did state that I am happy that he will get a chance to show if he can do that with any sort of consistency.

I don’t understand the need to discount the fact that he made a play, by running into this thread with your ifs and buts blazing, and your Andy Dalton flag flapping in the breeze.

I don’t see any sense in comparing the stats of guy who has started for 7 seasons with a guy who has less than a half season of starts under his belt. There is not much to compare.

Mc made a play. Is that such a bad thing?