Man, if Ross gets on the field and produces this year, a lot of people are going to have to claim that Ross just suddenly "got it" in year 2.

Seemed to me that Ross was definitely in Marv's doghouse. Not saying he would've went for 1000 yards or anything silly, but was he really so bad he couldn't get some snaps while he was healthy? Nothing at all? I still mostly blame Ross and (at least somewhat) his health for not making an impact. But it definitely seemed Marv was also sending some kind of message to the rook by not letting him sniff the field when he was good to practice. There was something to that, even if it wasn't entirely the reason for Ross' disappointing season.

(03-21-2018, 02:31 PM)Nately120 Wrote: So you are saying that have 100% proof that we have an amazing WR on the bench that our HC simply refuses to play.  Damn, Marvin Lewis is actively making this team worse...I can't believe the players haven't staged a mutiny to protest the fact that he never loses his job.

Oh wait, they have.  Hmm, maybe there is merit to all this.

Or maybe I am right.  He was the #1 playmaker coming out of college.  Is it a 100% certainty?  Nope.  But is he a better option than Brandon Lafell and was Marvin being an obvious assbag about not getting his stupid LB that has already likely lost half a season to suspensions?  Hell, yes.  The kid had ZERO character concerns coming out of college, but he (admittedly immaturely) goes to twitter showing what he can do because he is a healthy scratch and he is tired of everyone in the media as well as fans railing on him for not getting on the field.  Those are the actions of a very frustrated player that wanted to contribute.  He never should have done it but if you think Marvin had nothing to do with his emotions, you are fooling yourself.

I think a lot of people are going to see what Ross can do this year, or at least I hope so.  Because if he isn't the difference maker I think he is, the offense will likely continue to sputter.  

(03-21-2018, 09:24 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Fact is that the number of targets that Boyd got his rookie season WHILE LAFELL WAS ON THE TEAM destroys your claim that Marvin just plays vets over young guys no matter what.

Jeremy Hill rushed for 100 yards his rookies season.  Do you blame his decline in carries over the next two seasons on Marvins reluctance to give young players a chance?

Uh, Boyd was the slot receiver and Lafell was the X, so they weren't competing for the same job.  Gio was never meant to be the every down back and was injured Hill's rookie season anyways.  But, you know, don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.  

(03-21-2018, 09:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Man, if Ross gets on the field and produces this year, a lot of people are going to have to claim that Ross just suddenly "got it" in year 2.

Seemed to me that Ross was definitely in Marv's doghouse. Not saying he would've went for 1000 yards or anything silly, but was he really so bad he couldn't get some snaps while he was healthy? Nothing at all? I still mostly blame Ross and (at least somewhat) his health for not making an impact. But it definitely seemed Marv was also sending some kind of message to the rook by not letting him sniff the field when he was good to practice. There was something to that, even if it wasn't entirely the reason for Ross' disappointing season.

dude he was hurt.. couldn't practice most the preseason which put him behind.... 

finally got in and fumble got benched for it...  (understandable for 1 game) then got hurt in practice the next week....  Even ross said he was hurt all year. 

But lets keep blaming marvin for just hating the kid (good to practice doesn't mean doing well in practice)

Yeah marvin doesn't want to win with his best talent...

(03-18-2018, 11:25 AM)jj22 Wrote: Bad news for Boyd, Erickson, Malone, Core etc.

Reports (Katherine ESPN), Bengals paid Lafell 1m roster bonus due today. Nearly guaranteeing he's on the team in 2018.

Katherine Terrell
‏Verified account @Kat_Terrell 1h1 hour ago

Brandon LaFell has a $1 million roster bonus due today (5th day of the league year)

Need to keep Lafell around until one of these guys shows that they can do better. None of them have yet.

But i will add that i expect John Ross to do just that and show that he is much better this year. Malone maybe too.

Boyd will play more of the Slot role and should do well now that his problem is behind him.

Really liked Core and bought the hype last year but he sorely disappointed me.

(03-22-2018, 12:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Need to keep Lafell around until one of these guys shows that they can do better. None of them have yet.

But i will add that i expect John Ross to do just that and show that he is much better this year. Malone maybe too.

Boyd will play more of the Slot role and should do well now that his problem is behind him.

Really liked Core and bought the hype last year but he sorely disappointed me.

I feel the same way. Was hoping Core would really show something, but didn’t.

I like LaFelle. I think he’s good to have for the young guys to be mentored. Thinking the Pats wished he was still around about right now. I like Boyd in the slot, too.

Malone and Ross will stretch the field and take the double off AJ, one of the top WRs in the league (if not THE BEST).

I think our WRs are strong as a group when healthy. So, not disappointed at all with keeping the current crop. Core is probably odd man out at this point, though!

(03-22-2018, 12:50 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Need to keep Lafell around until one of these guys shows that they can do better. None of them have yet.

But i will add that i expect John Ross to do just that and show that he is much better this year. Malone maybe too.

Boyd will play more of the Slot role and should do well now that his problem is behind him.

Really liked Core and bought the hype last year but he sorely disappointed me.

He did get injured early in the season and never really got back in the groove.  Remember?  He was carted off?  Eifert makes a habit of being injured (not on purpose) and Burfict makes a habit of being suspended.  Core deserves another shot.  I have a feeling Core and Ross are going to be a big part of 2018 because I have faith in Lazor.  

The changes that have already been made and the late season improvements showed what he was capable of doing on the fly.  I am excited to see what he can do with a full offseason.  Wait?  Am I being optimistic again?  Damnit!  That means I have to change my mood!

(03-22-2018, 01:08 PM)Graphicguy Wrote: I feel the same way.  Was hoping Core would really show something, but didn’t.

I like LaFelle.  I think he’s good to have for the young guys to be mentored.  Thinking the Pats wished he was still around about right now.  I like Boyd in the slot, too.  

Malone and Ross will stretch the field and take the double off AJ, one of the top WRs in the league (if not THE BEST).

I think our WRs are strong as a group when healthy.  So, not disappointed at all with keeping the current crop. Core is probably odd man out at this point, though!

Nice post, i agree that our WR corps overall are pretty strong. I like the upside of all of these guys besides Lafell honestly,
but until one of them show they bring something to the position he cannot and do it somewhat consistently he should stay.

Erickson is also in this conversation as he is a decent Slot/backup option. Wasn't impressed with him bringing Kicks out last
year though and i think a guy like Brandon Wilson might bring more to the table as a Returner.

(03-22-2018, 01:46 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: He did get injured early in the season and never really got back in the groove.  Remember?  He was carted off?  Eifert makes a habit of being injured (not on purpose) and Burfict makes a habit of being suspended.  Core deserves another shot.  I have a feeling Core and Ross are going to be a big part of 2018 because I have faith in Lazor.  

The changes that have already been made and the late season improvements showed what he was capable of doing on the fly.  I am excited to see what he can do with a full offseason.  Wait?  Am I being optimistic again?  Damnit!  That means I have to change my mood!

I do remember Core getting injured, must of had an effect for sure. Definately deserves another shot. Dude is young, fast
and physical. Completely agree about Lazor as well, him castrating PA last year and him maybe being a reason we moved
on from PA, i am a giant Lazor fan.

With a decent O-line that opens up holes in the running game and gives Dalton some time we will be a tough Offense.

Pollack and Van Pelt were big time improvements and bringing in Bicknell as WR coach might be a good one i hope.

Was not impressed with Urban coaching up his guys last season.

(03-19-2018, 10:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was talking about guys getting hyped as WR's, so I'm not really taking into account Tab Perry's mediocre KR career. Btw, how did Chris Perry get thrown into it? If Tab were any good he would've caught on somewhere else. Btw 2.0, can we please cool it and talk like adults?

That's an unfair statement about Tab Perry, his NFL career was derailed by injuries.

He broke the Franchise record in KO return yardage in 2005, so I don't see how that could be "mediocre".

Perry went on to Miami, but tore his ACL before the season started and was IR'ed.

(03-22-2018, 08:35 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Or maybe I am right.  He was the #1 playmaker coming out of college.  Is it a 100% certainty?  Nope.  But is he a better option than Brandon Lafell and was Marvin being an obvious assbag about not getting his stupid LB that has already likely lost half a season to suspensions?  Hell, yes.  The kid had ZERO character concerns coming out of college, but he (admittedly immaturely) goes to twitter showing what he can do because he is a healthy scratch and he is tired of everyone in the media as well as fans railing on him for not getting on the field.  Those are the actions of a very frustrated player that wanted to contribute.  He never should have done it but if you think Marvin had nothing to do with his emotions, you are fooling yourself.

I think a lot of people are going to see what Ross can do this year, or at least I hope so.  Because if he isn't the difference maker I think he is, the offense will likely continue to sputter.  

Look, all I'm saying is that if we are convinced that Marvin Lewis is intentionally sabotaging this franchise by refusing to play the best players then maybe certain players aren't so crazy to have demanded trades over the years.  

Hopefully having a new WR coach will help too, as aside from AJ our receivers all seem to lack situational awareness. We had a lot of plays where the protection broke down (predictable) and the receivers just kept running without even a glance back to the line to see if they should be breaking back to get open and be an outlet. Teach them to be watching the line while running so if they see trouble they can break the route and be able to catch a pass on the run.

(03-21-2018, 09:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Man, if Ross gets on the field and produces this year, a lot of people are going to have to claim that Ross just suddenly "got it" in year 2.

Do you blame Marvin for Hills drop in production after his rookie season?

If not then why do you think it is impossible for s player to suddenly improve or get worse after his rookie season?  Why does it have to be something Marvin did instead of just a change in the players production?

(03-22-2018, 03:49 PM)Joelist Wrote: Hopefully having a new WR coach will help too, as aside from AJ our receivers all seem to lack situational awareness. We had a lot of plays where the protection broke down (predictable) and the receivers just kept running without even a glance back to the line to see if they should be breaking back to get open and be an outlet. Teach them to be watching the line while running so if they see trouble they can break the route and be able to catch a pass on the run.

This. Big time. With our O-line the last few years this should of been a habit of our Receivers lol

Wasn't impressed with Urban's coaching last year like i said. Happy someone new is here in Bicknell.

(03-22-2018, 02:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Nice post, i agree that our WR corps overall are pretty strong. I like the upside of all of these guys besides Lafell honestly,
but until one of them show they bring something to the position he cannot and do it somewhat consistently he should stay.

Erickson is also in this conversation as he is a decent Slot/backup option. Wasn't impressed with him bringing Kicks out last
year though and i think a guy like Brandon Wilson might bring more to the table as a Returner.


I do remember Core getting injured, must of had an effect for sure. Definately deserves another shot. Dude is young, fast
and physical. Completely agree about Lazor as well, him castrating PA last year and him maybe being a reason we moved
on from PA, i am a giant Lazor fan.

With a decent O-line that opens up holes in the running game and gives Dalton some time we will be a tough Offense.

Pollack and Van Pelt were big time improvements and bringing in Bicknell as WR coach might be a good one i hope.

Was not impressed with Urban coaching up his guys last season.

Completely agree.  I don't know how much of it was leaving Hue's scheme, but the WR corps overall last year were poor and their effort/attitude seemed to be sorely lacking...even very early in the season.  

(03-22-2018, 03:49 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Look, all I'm saying is that if we are convinced that Marvin Lewis is intentionally sabotaging this franchise by refusing to play the best players then maybe certain players aren't so crazy to have demanded trades over the years.  

Well, I wouldn't phrase it "intentionally sabotaging" because Marvin believes he was right.  He believes very strongly the way he felt and I think it became a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Fred will go right to the absolutes and say "He played Jeremy Hill as a rookie, so you can't say that", but the trend...the overall feeling is that a lot of talent sits behind veterans and for whatever reason, Ross sat, even when healthy, when our receivers weren't getting open in the slightest.  There are countless examples of this in his history and I am sure we aren't done seeing it.  Thank God we got another coach with some balls that is going to do his scheme with the guys he thinks can help.  Zim, Gruden, Hue, were all successful here by not following Marv's conservative nature.  We will see if Lazor can do the same. 

(03-23-2018, 07:39 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  Ross sat, even when healthy, when our receivers weren't getting open in the slightest.

Just so we understand each other, when exactly was Ross healthy?  And I mean according to Ross, not Marvin. 

Also, after those first two disaster games that got Zampese canned Dalton had a 92+ passer rating for the rest of the season (12th in the league) and only 4 QBs threw for more tds than Dalton's 25.

It is not possible to put up passing numbers like that when receivers are not getting "open in the slightest".

(03-23-2018, 10:40 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just so we understand each other, when exactly was Ross healthy?  And I mean according to Ross, not Marvin. 

Also, after those first two disaster games that got Zampese canned Dalton had a 92+ passer rating for the rest of the season (12th in the league) and only 4 QBs threw for more tds than Dalton's 25.

It is not possible to put up passing numbers like that when receivers are not getting "open in the slightest".

Not going to pull out the calendar, research dates, etc, but I would imagine it was somewhere around when he was deemed a "healthy scratch" and he posted that video.

Dalton had his lowest yardage total for a 16 game season in his career last year. If you watched, and you have admitted you didn't watch all the games, you would have seen Dalton holding on to the ball a lot. Even when the protection was solid, receivers were not generating separation early to create opportunities. And as far as the 25 TDs, look no further than the inept rushing attack.

(03-28-2018, 12:22 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Not going to pull out the calendar, research dates, etc, but I would imagine it was somewhere around when he was deemed a "healthy scratch" and he posted that video. 

Seriously?

On Dec 6 Ross admitted to Lewis that he had been suffering from a shoulder injury for a few weeks that he was trying to hide.  He told Lewis it was getting worse instead of better and it was hampering his ability to reach and make catches.  He was then placed IR.

Ten days AFTER he was placed on IR he posted the practice video that came from an unknown date.

You can't blame Marvin for not playing Ross when he was healthy because Ross admits that he was not healthy.  How is he going to block or fight off press coverage with a shoulder so sore he can not even extend to make catches?

(03-28-2018, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Seriously?

On Dec 6 Ross admitted to Lewis that he had been suffering from a shoulder injury for a few weeks that he was trying to hide.  He told Lewis it was getting worse instead of better and it was hampering his ability to reach and make catches.  He was then placed IR.

Ten days AFTER he was placed on IR he posted the practice video that came from an unknown date.

You can't blame Marvin for not playing Ross when he was healthy because Ross admits that he was not healthy.  How is he going to block or fight off press coverage with a shoulder so sore he can not even extend to make catches?

this is what happened... how people are still blaming marvin is beyond me pay attention to whats going on.

(03-22-2018, 10:03 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: dude he was hurt.. couldn't practice most the preseason which put him behind.... 

finally got in and fumble got benched for it...  (understandable for 1 game) then got hurt in practice the next week....  Even ross said he was hurt all year. 

But lets keep blaming marvin for just hating the kid  (good to practice doesn't mean doing well in practice)

Yeah marvin doesn't want to win with his best talent...

Dude did you not read my post? I said he was hurt. Even said I believe that played into it. Even said that I believe he himself is partly to blame for not getting on the field. I also read Marv's comments all season where he sounded disgusted with Ross. I also heard the rumor that Marv didn't want Ross in the first place. I take all that into account and come to the conclusion that Ross looked like he was in Marv's doghouse. 

This isn't some wild accusation based on no evidence. 

You assume he was doing terrible in practice based on what? That he didn't play? As if Marv has never kept a talented rookie on the bench? Marv has really earned our complete unquestioned faith on that? 

(03-22-2018, 03:40 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: That's an unfair statement about Tab Perry, his NFL career was derailed by injuries.

He broke the Franchise record in KO return yardage in 2005, so I don't see how that could be "mediocre".

Perry went on to Miami, but tore his ACL before the season started and was IR'ed.

He was ok. He was 11th in KR average that year, which is a more accurate way to judge success. No TD's. Career was derailed after that. 

I don't see much to rave about. Did zilch as a receiver. Stuck behind the great Kelley Washington.

(03-22-2018, 03:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Do you blame Marvin for Hills drop in production after his rookie season?

If not then why do you think it is impossible for s player to suddenly improve or get worse after his rookie season?  Why does it have to be something Marvin did instead of just a change in the players production?

Ok then. I have you down as Ross will suddenly "get it" if he goes from so hopeless he can't buy a snap to successful in one year.