(03-31-2018, 09:21 PM)McC Wrote: I like Marino.  But I never thought of him as Einstein-ish.  And Bradshaw--'nuff said.

If you take Bradshaw off the dynasty team, would his name ever get mentioned?  Their D was good enough that he could miss a lot of throws but hit  couple big ones and still win.

Marino, his greatness would have been the same no matter who he played for.

A comparable QB in today's NFL would be Joe Flacco. He's a below-average QB. However, when he had a bevy of weapons and an elite defense, he was able to win one championship from a couple very good throws in the postseason. But that doesn't mean he's a good NFL QB.

The Wonderlic is based around a theory from the 30's that really wasn't even meant to be used in football. It is an outdated concept for football and has been proven time and time again that a QB's ability to play football has no correlation to Wonderlic test scores. Crappy QB's score super high all the time on it and good QB's score low, there is no reason it should even be used anymore. I have seen there is a new test that is more based in football that has been given over the last few years that does have a correlation but those scores don't get leaked as they are privately contracted by teams not a general test given at the combine.

When I first heard of Lamarr Jackson, a couple years ago, I was all excited to see him play on tv.  he didn't let me down.  He was all OVER the field.  he was by far the best "running back" on the field that day.  He scored 5 or 6 TDs that day.  Unreal!  Then, after the game, they interviewed him.  Whoa.  Obviously, not a very well edu-ma-cated young man. It should have been decided long before then, by the staff at UL, to just let his play on the field do the talking for him. I honestly felt sorry for him. To me, he's the next Michael Vick, would I make a 2nd round pick on him, hell ya!  Would I use a 1st round pick on him?  Is he the next Michael Vick.....or the next Marcus Vick?  Nah, I'd wait till round 2 to make that selection.  

(04-02-2018, 03:33 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: When I first heard of Lamarr Jackson, a couple years ago, I was all excited to see him play on tv.  he didn't let me down.  He was all OVER the field.  he was by far the best "running back" on the field that day.  He scored 5 or 6 TDs that day.  Unreal!  Then, after the game, they interviewed him.  Whoa.  Obviously, not a very well edu-ma-cated young man. It should have been decided long before then, by the staff at UL, to just let his play on the field do the talking for him. I honestly felt sorry for him. To me, he's the next Michael Vick, would I make a 2nd round pick on him, hell ya!  Would I use a 1st round pick on him?  Is he the next Michael Vick.....or the next Marcus Vick?  Nah, I'd wait till round 2 to make that selection.  

He is intelligent enough to orchestrate a pro style offense at the FBS level, and do it very well. I wouldn't worry too much about is "Edu-ma-cation", most "average" people could never read a defense and make the correct decision in the time required to do so. 

(04-02-2018, 04:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: He is intelligent enough to orchestrate a pro style offense at the FBS level, and do it very well. I wouldn't worry too much about is "Edu-ma-cation", most "average" people could never read a defense and make the correct decision in the time required to do so. 

Honestly, I don’t think he can read a defense either, let alone the Harry Potter series, but he could run like a antelope and run around and by the college level defenses. Can he do that against the ultra athletic defenses of the NFL?

To me it’s a Michael Vick vs Marcus Vick question.

(04-02-2018, 09:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: You're referring to QBs that haven't played in the NFL since at least 1999. The game has changed a lot since then in favor of offense. I feel that at least Marino and Elway would be above 60% completion percentage in today's NFL.

And maybe Allen does make enough "holy sh*t" throws that a team will live with his lower completion percentage. That's fine, but I hope it's not the Bengals. I don't like passers like that. Too frustrating.

Here's an article I just found that provides some backing for my claim that I don't trust Josh Allen to become a good NFL QB...
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135

He'll obviously never be a Bengal.  I just hope like hell he won't be a Brown. 

He won't make it past Denver because Elway will see himself in Allen and make him a Bronco and he will end up better than any of this group of QB's.   I make very few predictions.  But this is one I am making.

People are totally overblowing this completion pct.  It's a matter of one or two completions a game.  It will not stand between him and greatness.  Better mechanics can be taught.  Ask Andy Dalton.  But what Allen has cannot be taught.

(04-02-2018, 06:44 PM)McC Wrote: He'll obviously never be a Bengal.  I just hope like hell he won't be a Brown. 

He won't make it past Denver because Elway will see himself in Allen and make him a Bronco and he will end up better than any of this group of QB's.   I make very few predictions.  But this is one I am making.

People are totally overblowing this completion pct.  It's a matter of one or two completions a game.  It will not stand between him and greatness.  Better mechanics can be taught.  Ask Andy Dalton.  But what Allen has cannot be taught.

Really, you think so?  I mean I guess it's possible.  But, other than one year where he had the perfect team assembled around Peyton Manning, what QB that Elway has picked has actually done much of anything?

(04-02-2018, 05:23 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Honestly, I don’t think he can read a defense either, let alone the Harry Potter series, but he could run like a antelope and run around and by the college level defenses. Can he do that against the ultra athletic defenses of the NFL?

To me it’s a Michael Vick vs Marcus Vick question.

Jackson last college year...
59% passer on 430 attempts 3600 yards 27 TDs 10 INTs 146 passer ratings

Vick last college year...
54% passer in 161 attempts 1200 yards 8 TDs 6 Ints 127 passer rating.

Jackson did make quality level reads his last year in Petrino’s offense. He ran when the play broke down but wasn’t a run first QB. The issue is people like you don’t actually know anything about the nuances of football so you make sweeping generalizations based off stereo types. You don’t know what a proper read is yourself but you say you don’t think he can read one. I can throw up footage of defenses and ask you based on defensive alignment what’s the coverage and where the soft spots are, then to explain progression and keys but I’m guessing it wouldn’t be worth anyone’s time.

(04-02-2018, 07:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Really, you think so?  I mean I guess it's possible.  But, other than one year where he had the perfect team assembled around Peyton Manning, what QB that Elway has picked has actually done much of anything?

Allen would have been perfect in a Bruce Arians offense.

Scoring well on the wonderlic is a plus and scoring poorly is a negative. Folks can point as specific examples all day, but most folks understand this simple concept.

(04-02-2018, 07:28 PM)Au165 Wrote: Jackson last college year...
59% passer on 430 attempts 3600 yards 27 TDs 10 INTs 146 passer ratings

Vick last college year...
54% passer in 161 attempts 1200 yards 8 TDs 6 Ints 127 passer rating.

Jackson did make quality level reads his last year in Petrino’s offense. He ran when the play broke down but wasn’t a run first QB. The issue is people like you don’t actually know anything about the nuances of football so you make sweeping generalizations based off stereo types. You don’t know what a proper read is yourself but you say you don’t think he can read one. I can throw up footage of defenses and ask you based on defensive alignment what’s the coverage and where the soft spots are, then to explain progression and keys but I’m guessing it wouldn’t be worth anyone’s time.

Got it. He’s the next Steve Young.


The problem with people like you is you only look at a few key plays and stats to fit your arguments. Made quality level reads? Great! He’s a D1 QB, quality reads should be expected from D1 QBs. What happened in 2016? The year I was referring to, how many games did he have multiple rushing TDs? Not like Tim Tebow plays either, the lower your head and plow thru the line, 3 yards and a cloud of dust. No, I’m referring to the long splash plays, running 30 yards and by the defense. Yes, he ran around and ran by the defenses he played, just like one Mike Vick.


260 attempts
1561 yards
21 tds

(04-02-2018, 11:32 AM)Au165 Wrote: The Wonderlic is based around a theory from the 30's that really wasn't even meant to be used in football. It is an outdated concept for football and has been proven time and time again that a QB's ability to play football has no correlation to Wonderlic test scores. Crappy QB's score super high all the time on it and good QB's score low, there is no reason it should even be used anymore. I have seen there is a new test that is more based in football that has been given over the last few years that does have a correlation but those scores don't get leaked as they are privately contracted by teams not a general test given at the combine.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/22/baker-mayfield-advance-analytics-nfl-draft-oklahoma-pff

AIQ or Athletic Intelligence Quotient. Dr. Scott Goldman and Dr. Jim Bowman have spent the last 15 years developing the exam, administered on a touchscreen and intended to improve upon the methodology of the Wonderlic test, the longtime benchmark for intelligence testing at the combine still in use today.

Goldman declined to confirm the performance of specific players, but did acknowledge a QB prospect this year scored in the Top 100 on the AIQ all-time—out of more than 4,000 tests—and is the second-highest scoring quarterback out of 63 who have taken the test since 2012. Two league sources, who asked for anonymity to discuss the testing results of a prospect, confirmed it was Mayfield.

Just an FYI

(04-03-2018, 04:28 PM)Mike M (the other one) Wrote: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/03/22/baker-mayfield-advance-analytics-nfl-draft-oklahoma-pff

AIQ or Athletic Intelligence Quotient. Dr. Scott Goldman and Dr. Jim Bowman have spent the last 15 years developing the exam, administered on a touchscreen and intended to improve upon the methodology of the Wonderlic test, the longtime benchmark for intelligence testing at the combine still in use today.

Goldman declined to confirm the performance of specific players, but did acknowledge a QB prospect this year scored in the Top 100 on the AIQ all-time—out of more than 4,000 tests—and is the second-highest scoring quarterback out of 63 who have taken the test since 2012. Two league sources, who asked for anonymity to discuss the testing results of a prospect, confirmed it was Mayfield.

Just an FYI

Yea that was where I saw it last. Thanks for the reminder!