(04-05-2018, 08:25 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Just keep dancing away from it and cherry pick what you think makes your point.  Still waiting for how they did compared to the rest of the league when their offense wasn't scoring.  

You can keep waiting because I am not doing any research for you.
  

The burden is on you to prove it when you make a wild guess about something.

(04-05-2018, 08:42 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  if you are going to measure what the guy was by throwing stats together from a time when he had a very high-powered offense on the other side of the ball, and a guy that I see as the best LB in the league, then I feel it is only fair to compare his success (or lack therof) when he didn't have either of those.  

First of all the Bengals offense ranked 19th in the league in points score from '14 through '17.  So I don't know what you mean by "very high powered offense"

Second how am I supposed to adjust the defensive stats for every other team in the league who has an All Pro player on defense?  You seem to act like Guenthar was the only DC in the league who had a star player.

(04-05-2018, 08:43 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You can keep waiting because I am not doing any research for you.
  

The burden is on you to prove it when you make a wild guess about something.

Sure it is...because you can't cherry pick something to try and discredit.  Emphasis on try.  

(04-05-2018, 08:54 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Sure it is...because you can't cherry pick something to try and discredit.  Emphasis on try.  

You must not know what the term "cherry picking" means

Quoting the interception numbers for the entire time he was here is the exact opposite of "cherry picking" a stat to prove you were wrong about our pass coverage scheme being too soft to produce interceptions.

(04-05-2018, 08:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all the Bengals offense ranked 19th in the league in points score from '14 through '17.  So I don't know what you mean by "very high powered offense"

Second how am I supposed to adjust the defensive stats for every other team in the league who has an All Pro player on defense?  You seem to act like Guenthar was the only DC in the league who had a star player.

First of all, I said the last two seasons, that would be 2016 and 2017.  That is where you should be looking at points scored rankings for our offense, if you are going to try to disagree with my contention that he lost a high-powered offense, that he had in 2014 and 2015 (at least higher-powered) and also look at how his defenses performed without Burfict.  The Pats lost tons of talent on the defensive side of the ball over the past few years and I think they finished #1 in the NFL last year.  Some of that could be because they have a very high-powered offense and would be ahead of many teams, forcing them in to a passing attack mode.  A lot of it was coaching.  

To your second statement, I didn't ask you to adjust defensive stats.  I merely pointed out that without Burfict, his defense really suffered.  And this leads me back to a post I already, well, posted.

The original posts looked like this, because you seem to be all over the place:

Quote:Guenthars worst season here was his fourth and had the #16 scoring defense.

Mike Zimmers worst season here was his thgird and we had the #24 scoring defense.

Guenthar is a damn good DC.  Don't know why so many people don't like him.  There is a good reason he was the first choice at DC for both Mike Zimmer and Jon Gruden.

We will see how he does with the Raider's defense.  Some of it might have been due to talent.  Look at how his defense suffered without Burfict.  He doesn't have him in Oakland (er, Vegas).

(04-05-2018, 08:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You must not know what the term "cherry picking" means

Quoting the interception numbers for the entire time he was here is the exact opposite of "cherry picking" a stat to prove you were wrong about our pass coverage scheme being too soft to produce interceptions.

No, it is cherry picking when you pull out a stat in a certain time frame (4 years) that you believe makes your point that Marvin and the Bengals don't operate a conservative scheme.  This, from a guy that admits to not watching the games.

I questioned the validity of your statement because the past two years, they haven't been anywhere near the top of the league.  They had a very opportunistic defense in 2015 when they had a very high-powered offense and forced teams to play catch-up and throw the ball.  You tried to make it sound like Guenther's defense here has always been on top in INTs and that is simply not the case.  That is cherry picking.  You take one stat and try to cast an opinion over the entire career when he failed the past two seasons to do anything on defense.  

(04-05-2018, 09:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: First of all, I said the last two seasons, that would be 2016 and 2017.  That is where you should be looking at points scored rankings for our offense, if you are going to try to disagree with my contention that he lost a high-powered offense, that he had in 2014 and 2015 (at least higher-powered) and also look at how his defenses performed without Burfict.  The Pats lost tons of talent on the defensive side of the ball over the past few years and I think they finished #1 in the NFL last year.  Some of that could be because they have a very high-powered offense and would be ahead of many teams, forcing them in to a passing attack mode.  A lot of it was coaching.  

To your second statement, I didn't ask you to adjust defensive stats.  I merely pointed out that without Burfict, his defense really suffered.  And this leads me back to a post I already, well, posted.

The original posts looked like this, because you seem to be all over the place:

.....also worth noting, in 2014, the o may not have been high powered, but we had a pretty good rushing season....so the defense got some breathers.  In 2015, we were among the league's best.  

(04-03-2018, 08:36 PM)grampahol Wrote: Guenther's biggest problem was that his last name wasn't Zimmer...

I wasn't a huge fan of his sideline presence. He just seemed...unimpressive. That said, the results he got mostly changed my mind about him. I'd say he was good but that there are potentially even better DCs. Hopefully we just got one. 

(04-05-2018, 08:48 AM)fredtoast Wrote: First of all the Bengals offense ranked 19th in the league in points score from '14 through '17.  So I don't know what you mean by "very high powered offense"

Second how am I supposed to adjust the defensive stats for every other team in the league who has an All Pro player on defense?  You seem to act like Guenthar was the only DC in the league who had a star player.

You must be using a range of years to come up with that number.  As in 2015, the Bengals were 7th in points scored, and 2nd in points allowed.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2015.htm

So, in order to come up with an average of 19th, they must have had some bad scoring seasons, to offset 2015.

(04-05-2018, 05:44 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You must be using a range of years to come up with that number.  As in 2015, the Bengals were 7th in points scored, and 2nd in points allowed.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/cin/2015.htm

So, in order to come up with an average of 19th, they must have had some bad scoring seasons, to offset 2015.

They did.  But that doesn't make his point, it makes mine...so he took his ball with his red hands and went home.  

(04-06-2018, 08:46 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: They did.  But that doesn't make his point, it makes mine...so he took his ball with his red hands and went home.  

Enough of the childish personal comments.  No need to get so upset just because I prove you wrong.

In the four years that Guenthar was our DC here this is how our offense ranked in scoring compared to where our defense ranked in interceptions

.........pts.........ints
'14....15th........ 3rd
'15.... 7th......... 3rd
'16....24th........ 5th
'17....26th....... 20th
total..19th....... 1st

You have no clue what you are talking about claiming that the only reason we were NUMBER ONE in the league in interceptions over that span is because of our "very high powered scoring offense".  You just made up some ridiculous claim out of thin air with absolutely nothing to back it up.

(04-06-2018, 10:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Enough of the childish personal comments.  No need to get so upset just because I prove you wrong.

In the four years that Guenthar was our DC here this is how our offense ranked in scoring compared to where our defense ranked in interceptions

.........pts.........ints
'14....15th........ 3rd
'15.... 7th......... 3rd
'16....24th........ 5th
'17....26th....... 20th
total..19th....... 1st

You have no clue what you are talking about claiming that the only reason we were NUMBER ONE in the league in interceptions over that span is because of our "very high powered scoring offense".  You just made up some ridiculous claim out of thin air with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Oooooowwww.  Fred said be quiet an adult is talking.  Bwahahahahha.  I never claimed it was the only reason (aren't you supposed to be an attorney?  You must not be a very good one as you always seem to lose the facts.  My point was that Guenther's defense was not #1 in INTs the past couple years in relation to the rest of the league.  You said it was #1 over four years and I tried to get you to show the ranking the past couple years.  If you don't think that the offensive prowess the first two years of Guenther's tenure was any part of his success than any further debate isn't warranted. 

Now, go wash your hands before dinner.  

(04-07-2018, 09:35 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  If you don't think that the offensive prowess the first two years of Guenther's tenure was any part of his success than any further debate isn't warranted. 

(04-06-2018, 10:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: .........pts.........ints
'14....15th........ 3rd

Looks like this conversation is over.

(04-07-2018, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Looks like this conversation is over.

Looks like you took one of two years....the worst one of course.  And was an offense ranked 15th in points scored higher than it was the past two years?  Nice cherry picking again!  

Looks like this conversation will never end, because you just can't accept defeat.  It's ok, I already accepted victory.  

(04-08-2018, 08:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Looks like you took one of two years....the worst one of course. 

Nice cherry picking again!  
 

(04-06-2018, 10:05 AM)fredtoast Wrote: total..19th....... 1st

(04-02-2018, 12:13 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus didn't he interview for many HC jobs too ? 

Not as good as coaching in 3 SB's but says a lot about how he is viewed around league. 

Did not hate PG and would have been fine if he were retained. 

But really like Austin and think he will be a great DC. 

Not really.  The Rooney Rule being what it is and all. 

That isn't to say he isn't a good coach and that he would be a good or great HC.  Just that when teams are required to bring in a minority candidate for an interview it takes away some of the luster that would be there if the requirement weren't there.

Zimmer getting the looks is one thing, Austin getting the looks could be just to meet the requirements imposed by the league.