I really do wonder if Fisher and even, gasp, Ced can be serviceable under a more aggressive scheme. Some big guys just don't know how to generate power while moving backwards and aren't nimble enough to even attempt it. I am not saying as plan A, but maybe there is hope for these guys after all. I still think Fisher has a chance either way, but it probably helps a bit even for him.

(04-17-2018, 03:54 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Well as to that... the OL played pretty well in 2015  which isn't a very very long time ago..  but it did take them a long time to recover from 2006   (basically till 2009) where we had a pretty good run game.

Aside for an outlier year here and there, the run game has been near the bottom of the league in YPC for the better part of a decade.  He was woefully outdated.

(04-17-2018, 03:14 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yea, I was being coy 

As long as you're not being koi. 

(04-17-2018, 04:03 PM)Au165 Wrote: I really do wonder if Fisher and even, gasp, Ced can be serviceable under a more aggressive scheme. Some big guys just don't know how to generate power while moving backwards and aren't nimble enough to even attempt it. I am not saying as plan A, but maybe there is hope for these guys after all. I still think Fisher has a chance either way, but it probably helps a bit even for him.

It would have to be hard.  Especially considering that goes against all you are taught from a young age.  For me, firing off the ball and getting under the pads was in my wheelhouse.  Backpedaling and handling someone quicker and faster would have likely gotten my QB killed.  

(04-17-2018, 04:00 PM)sandwedge Wrote: I can only hope that it doesn't take us 6 weeks before everyone is on the same page! I'm trying to be optimistic, but a part of me says, "It's the most wonderful time of the year" and to reign it in...

new guys take time to gel together... Hopefully they can get that done in camp.

so he doesn't play the piano?

(04-17-2018, 02:10 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: alexander probly slept thru those meetings

He was busy playing the piano. 

(04-17-2018, 02:57 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I was going to ask the very same question.... don't mean to rain on a parade, but why did it take them this long to get rid of a guy who's probably lost his edge? Do they need to see the tire go flat before buying a new one? Didn't the lack of tread give you any indicator that your tire was going to go flat soon?

How man times have we seen this with the Mike and Merv show ?

How long was Dennis Roland here ? 4 or 5 years ? He would have been cut after 1 or 2 years anywhere else.

(04-17-2018, 01:53 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Thanks to the FP article that Sled posted, this is a major note, as we all (Ryan/Royle, mainly) knew:


In terms of our oline, have we died and gone to heaven?

Awesome!!! No wonder Bodine ran for the hills. Maybe Ogbuehi will somehow find a way to move on.

(04-17-2018, 01:53 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Thanks to the FP article that Sled posted, this is a major note, as we all (Ryan/Royle, mainly) knew:


In terms of our oline, have we died and gone to heaven?

I thought his Dallas O Line OPENED holes for rookie Ohio State RB and GAVE TIME AND PROTECTION to rookie QB in 2016.  I was very impressed with the Dallas O Line as others were applauding these 2 rookies.  My hope is Bengals end up with that type of O Line.  Now, here is the catch, WE DON'T HAVE THE BLOCKERS.  Let us not put all the blame on the last coach, that's too easy.  We need more than just this new coach.  I would love to see us draft Wynn or Hernandez and also get Price or Daniels in first 2 rounds this month. THAT, plus this new coach is really addressing the worst O Line in NFL.   Most QB' don't get up from the hits Dalton took all season, and soon he won't either. That Dalton kept getting up and hit Boyd for game winning bomb against Ravens shows Dalton is still a Pro Bowl quarterback but we can not have the worst O Line in NFL and expect anything but disaster.  Please Mike Brown, give Dalton some blocking by not just bringing in this coach, but also going O Line early and often this month. If you can turn worst O Line in NFL into good solid Paul Brown type blocking, we have the finesse players to ride that blocking to a Super Bowl run. 

I always loved Ohio State coach Earl Bruce story. He said he had a lousy season. He was talking to Woody Hayes and said. " Woody, I don't get it. The media said I had the best recruiting class in the USA. Want went wrong ? ". Woody told him, " You didn't recrute enough Big Boys in the Trenches. Too much finesse ". Coach Bruce said he suddenly knew Woody was right, not the media opinion of who has the best recruiting class. Now I love this story and it applies to NFL. On Draft Day I have heard year after year the media assume Lions or Browns just paved way to Super Bowl on draft picks. You can't listen to the media. This draft they will be all over the QBs, WR's, RB's taken as they do every year. I wish I had money for every QB Cleveland has picked that TV Draft spent entire weekend talking Super Bowl on. What Bengals need is what Woody told Bruce. Big Boys in The Trenches, Not Finesse. We have too much Finesse and Not Enough Blocking and Tackling. The Bengals need to get Tough to Play Tough in a league with Steelers and Ravens. You have to block and tackle in this league, this isn't the west coast surf and turf football, this is smash mouth rain and snow football. Carson and now Dalton get killed because we don't man up in the trenches. BLOCKING is the only way to Play-Off Wins, the type Blocking we had in 1981 and 1988, but you have to Draft it as we did back then. This month, DRAFT BLOCKING.

If we draft blocking and have this coach from Dallas, we just increased going to the play-offs 75 %. Now if we don't draft blocking, play-off chan Hopefully ces are Zero. I hope to be celebrating new blockers before month is out. I'm sure nobody wants more blockers more than Andy Dalton. I can't even imagine playing murderers row Steelers and Ravens defenses 4 games with worst blocking in NFL. Dalton needs for the line to get some rushing yards and for the line to protect him in the pocket. Any QB lining up behind Bengals O Line as it is now, has to be wondering if he has enough life insurance for his wife and kids. Hopefully this new coach with some top draft picks, and Bengals start laying the hits on the other team as in days of Munoz, Montoya and Associates.

Every day closer to the draft, I lean more and more towards drafting Wynn/Hernandez in first and a Center in the 2nd.

Is he really all that intense, or are we just so used to Paul Alexander's pansy-ass, chicken-shit ****-fest that anything even remotely approaching competent coaching seems revolutionary?

(04-18-2018, 02:14 AM)kevin Wrote: I thought his Dallas O Line OPENED holes for rookie Ohio State RB and GAVE TIME AND PROTECTION to rookie QB in 2016.  I was very impressed with the Dallas O Line as others were applauding these 2 rookies.  My hope is Bengals end up with that type of O Line.  Now, here is the catch, WE DON'T HAVE THE BLOCKERS.  Let us not put all the blame on the last coach, that's too easy.  We need more than just this new coach.  I would love to see us draft Wynn or Hernandez and also get Price or Daniels in first 2 rounds this month. THAT, plus this new coach is really addressing the worst O Line in NFL.   Most QB' don't get up from the hits Dalton took all season, and soon he won't either. That Dalton kept getting up and hit Boyd for game winning bomb against Ravens shows Dalton is still a Pro Bowl quarterback but we can not have the worst O Line in NFL and expect anything but disaster.  Please Mike Brown, give Dalton some blocking by not just bringing in this coach, but also going O Line early and often this month. If you can turn worst O Line in NFL into good solid Paul Brown type blocking, we have the finesse players to ride that blocking to a Super Bowl run. 

I always loved Ohio State coach Earl Bruce story. He said he had a lousy season. He was talking to Woody Hayes and said. " Woody, I don't get it.  The media said I had the best recruiting class in the USA. Want went wrong ? ".    Woody told him, " You didn't recrute enough Big Boys in the Trenches. Too much finesse ".  Coach Bruce said he suddenly knew Woody was right, not the media opinion of who has the best recruiting class.  Now I love this story and it applies to NFL. On Draft Day I have heard year after year the media assume Lions or Browns just paved way to Super Bowl on draft picks.  You can't listen to the media. This draft they will be all over the QBs, WR's, RB's taken as they do every year.  I wish I had money for every QB Cleveland has picked that TV Draft spent entire weekend talking Super Bowl on.  What Bengals need is what Woody told Bruce.  Big Boys in The Trenches, Not Finesse. We have too much Finesse and Not Enough Blocking and Tackling.   The Bengals need to get Tough to Play Tough in a league with Steelers and Ravens.  You have to block and tackle in this league, this isn't the west coast surf and turf football, this is smash mouth rain and snow football.  Carson and now Dalton get killed because we don't man up in the trenches. BLOCKING is the only way to Play-Off Wins, the type Blocking we had in 1981 and 1988, but you have to Draft it as we did back then.  This month, DRAFT BLOCKING.

If we draft blocking and have this coach from Dallas, we just increased going to the play-offs 75 %.  Now if we don't draft blocking, play-off chan Hopefully ces are Zero. I hope to be celebrating new blockers before month is out. I'm sure nobody wants more blockers more than Andy Dalton. I can't even imagine playing murderers row Steelers and Ravens defenses 4 games with worst blocking in NFL.  Dalton needs for the line to get some rushing yards and for the line to protect him in the pocket.  Any QB lining up behind Bengals O Line as it is now, has to be wondering if he has enough life insurance for his wife and kids. Hopefully this new coach with some top draft picks, and Bengals start laying the hits on the other team as in days of Munoz, Montoya and Associates.

I agree that the Bengals need an infusion of talent at 2 line spots. However.....

The way the old line coach did things was from the mid 90's. PA was in charge of blocking schemes, protection, and over all philosophy along the line. It was wrong and ill-suited to the talent the Bengals have. I documented this in several threads where I referenced coach and analyst (Lapham, especially) analysis with the problems PA's schemes were causing and how it didn't fit what the guys on the roster were good at. In any sport, bad coaches play to their personal strengths and ideals. Great coaches play to their players strengths. PA was a bad coach in the end of his tenure in Cincinnati.

The Bengals definitely need a RT, and a C. No question.

The notion they need a RG, or any G, makes no sense to me. They basically have 5 with Fisher (who also can play RT if needed), OG, Westerman, Redmond, Bolling, are all capable of stepping into either G spot.

Bolling is a good player. Westerman is greatly underrated and underused. Alexander basically hid him on the bench because he wasn't good at the MID ZONE blocking - what PA was forcing on them even though it wasn't working according to Lapham. However, he's exceptional at INSIDE ZONE blocking, as seen at the end of the year when Lazor took the scheme/game planning job away from PA and switched it.

Christian Westerman is a little known, but valuable talent the Bengals drafted in 2016. Here is his draft profile. He graded out at a 5.85 (2nd or 3rd round grade in that draft). That 5.85 grade would actually make him the #3 or 4 G in this year's draft. He's only .27 points graded lower than Hernandez and .26 lower than Wynn - the #2 & 3 Gs in this draft. To spend a high draft pick on such a tiny difference in grade, especially after the PFF grades (linked below) Westerman got, makes no sense.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/christian-westerman?id=2555131

Here is his PFF Grades for the action he got at the end of last season. They rated him in their 2nd highest tier at "High Quality" in BOTH run and pass blocking: https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/christian-westerman/10795

The Bengals absolutely HAVE to draft a high quality RT. Fisher is coming off of heart issues and Andre Smith is gone. They have next to nothing at RT and C. Guard is stocked with young talent to work with.

(04-17-2018, 04:40 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: new guys take time to gel together... Hopefully they can get that done in camp.

True, but a coach with good schemes that can actually communicate and coach the players makes it a lot easier to gel because it’s just players doing their jobs and knowing that their teammates will be doing theirs.

C'mon.. You're all just jealous of the Dallas Cowboys for having snatched the greatest offensive line coach since the advent of sliced bread from us.. When Prescott throws for a million yards and Elliott runs for another million in the same season you'll be sorry you ever said anything bad about the Piano Man of steel..

Just kidding. They're only gonna get 999,999 yards each..

(04-17-2018, 04:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: I thought that was pretty much confirmed a month or so ago when they spoke of Alexander not using sleds and contact in favor of arm pads.  I mean, how could it be aggressive with such passive practicing?

Yeah, in the days of no contact practice and limited training camp relying solely on old-time practice routines is a recipe for long-term disaster.  We have more and more linemen coming in the league with no pro-style offense experience.  Sticking to a single methodology of teaching with these young guys doesn't get the job done in the current NFL.

(04-17-2018, 04:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Aside for an outlier year here and there, the run game has been near the bottom of the league in YPC for the better part of a decade.  He was woefully outdated.

Our o line has been average at best for a long time.

the major problem for years- as everyone knows- has been below average performance at center.

Our center play has been average to below average ever since we lost Richie.

Why the Bengals have put up with this for years is hard to fathom as everyone on this board has said over and over.

(04-18-2018, 11:53 AM)bengals67 Wrote: Our o line has been average at best for a long time.

the major problem for years- as everyone knows- has been below average performance at center.

Our center play has been average to below average ever since we lost Richie.

Why the Bengals have put up with this for years is hard to fathom as everyone on this board has said over and over.

From 2009-2015, we had a consistently top 10 (and for 3/4 years, top *3*) oline and that is a fact backed up by numbers, not my opinion.

(04-18-2018, 11:44 AM)pally Wrote: Yeah, in the days of no contact practice and limited training camp relying solely on old-time practice routines is a recipe for long-term disaster.  We have more and more linemen coming in the league with no pro-style offense experience.  Sticking to a single methodology of teaching with these young guys doesn't get the job done in the current NFL.

Absolutely agree.  You always have to be evolving to succeed in this league.  Resting on your laurels doesn't cut it.

(04-18-2018, 12:23 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: From 2009-2015, we had a consistently top 10 (and for 3/4 years, top *3*) oline and that is a fact backed up by numbers, not my opinion.

 In pass pro, yes.....the YPC points to another story.  It's also worth noting that we discovered Piano Man was the run game coordinator for at least a portion of that time.....

(04-18-2018, 12:59 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Absolutely agree.  You always have to be evolving to succeed in this league.  Resting on your laurels doesn't cut it.

 In pass pro, yes.....the YPC points to another story.  It's also worth noting that we discovered Piano Man was the run game coordinator for at least a portion of that time.....

I knew someone would bring that up lol.

Run game blocking's importance has diminished, in the pass-happy modern game.

As such, our pass blocking snaps are significantly higher than run blocking and if you average it out, numbers-wise, the pass pro trumped the run blocking.

That's what I meant by the numbers lol.