(04-19-2018, 11:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm calling complete BS on this article. Least trustworthy??? Mike Brown and the Bengals are widely known for honoring contracts. If the agents don't like this organization, it's because they can't get one over on them.....

My thoughts exactly. I can understand the thoughts on front office preparation, but one of the least trustworthy?  WTF?

I'm not breaking anything new here, but they are also known as one of the cheapest teams in the league. A former OSU football player who spent time with 5 NFL teams (including the Bengals) recently posted on a Rivals board an example of their frugality. His first game with the team, he was inactive and was surprised to find that the team lock up their dry cereal dispensers on game day.

Go figure a guy who can't get fired no matter what he does is a pain to deal with according to people who supposedly need to show results to keep from being canned.

(04-19-2018, 10:23 AM)wcu Wrote: USA Today did a poll of NFL agents asking them to rate clubs on various subjects. They rated the Bengals as the worst prepared team for contract negotiations and Mike Brown as the 4th least trustworthy GM. Pretty sad, though not entirely surprising.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/04/19/nfl-agent-poll-bruce-allen-redskins-bill-belichick-demaurice-smith/528741002/

Surprising that Mike Brown was voted least trustworthy!!  He might be tight and make some bad decisions but least trustworthy I just cant see.

lol the source of this is a bit self serving imo. I do kinda agree tho because we don't have a GM this makes the team a bit unique. without even looking at the article I can bet they say similar things about greenbay

(04-19-2018, 01:19 PM)Okeana Wrote: lol the source of this is a bit self serving imo.  I do kinda agree tho because we don't have a GM this makes the team a bit unique.  without even looking at the article I can bet they say similar things about greenbay

and now i just looked and packers are in the top 5 lmao! go figure.

I suspect that the least trustworthy stigma arises from the negotiations process rather than honoring a signed agreement. Can’t you see Mike trying to pull a fast one? Also, if they’re that unprepared, perhaps honest mistakes are made that come off as untrustworthy behavior.

Agents don't like the Bengals because they dont fork over many large lump sums.

(04-19-2018, 01:33 PM)wcu Wrote: I suspect that the least trustworthy stigma arises from the negotiations process rather than honoring a signed agreement. Can’t you see Mike trying to pull a fast one?  Also, if they’re that unprepared, perhaps honest mistakes are made that come off as untrustworthy behavior.

Do they operationally define what trustworthy means in regards to this poll?  My best guess is that it's hard to trust a guy like Mike Brown because he's completely untouchable so it's less about honor/honesty and more about him just being able to shrug things off and say "No deal" because he knows he's not going to fire himself if it was the wrong move.

(04-19-2018, 10:51 AM)depthchart Wrote: I would imagine that Mike Brown treats contract negotiations like a Poker Game until documents are actually signed.

The Agents better be on their toes because Mike likely draws negotiations out to gain as much information and leverage as possible, (which makes him seem unprepared) to the agents. It is a feeling out process and they are negotiating with a guy that likely has become an expert at getting others to show some of their cards while hinting at showing some of his. (making him seem untrustworthy)

Mike probably feels that negotiations are the time for both sides to try to gain their advantage and nothing is promised until documents are finalized & signed.

Probably not a pleasant experience for the Agents to battle with Mike for more of his cash.

Or Hamilton county!

4th on 'trust the least'? Pacman and Burfict's agents disagree...

Smirking aside, this 'poll' apparently comes from agents. And since none of us are agents and don't deal with front offices, we really have no clue on this.

(04-19-2018, 12:37 PM)PhilHos Wrote: My thoughts exactly. I can understand the thoughts on front office preparation, but one of the least trustworthy?  WTF?

Well, there was reports out there that they didn't even offer Z a contract. Then the handling of big Whit, being tired of playing on a year-to-year deal, and probably low balling (Bodine) are some signs you can point to that makes this at least "credible". Those are your starters and they kind of shrugged them off. Almost impossible to say without context, which they don't really provide.

Depends on the viewpoint. Agents may hate the Bengals front office because they are tough negotiators and dont give in to their demands as easily as other franchises do.

(04-19-2018, 11:56 AM)depthchart Wrote: Maybe...

I just don't see Mike Brown as being an "unprepared" person when it comes to committing his Money Long Term.

He strikes me as being a guy that would be very systematic and thorough heading into negotiations that involves his money.

He may give the appearance of being unprepared to stall the negotiations or buy some time or to obtain more information from the Agents.

I also doubt that he flat out lies to the Agents making him untrustworthy.

He likely qualifies his statements with words like "may" or "may be able to do this" and the Agents hear what they want to hear making it an absolute in the Agents mind. Then the Agent feels betrayed.

Mike nailed the City of Cincinnati pretty good on the stadium deal and I would bet that he is a sly negotiator.

I could be wrong, however, and Mike could be like the old Mr Magoo cartoon character that was blind and would walk onto building construction sites, get high up on the various beams of the building then step onto a swinging beam just before falling and get taken safely back to the ground unharmed. Maybe Mike is a completely unprepared and clueless negotiator who's word can't be trusted and he Mr Magoo's his way into the good deals he makes.  

If Mike Brown "nailed" Bob Bedinghaus during a business deal, why would Mike hire the guy who negotiated one of the worst business deals for Hamilton County to be the Bengals' director of business development? Was it because Mike admired what a shitty job Bedinghaus did when Mike "nailed" him?

Last year after drafting Mixon, Mike released a statement claiming Mixon "pleaded guilty in court, and accepted the consequences."

That's not true. Mixon entered an Alford plea which means he acknowledged the video evidence of him punching the woman in the face fracturing facial bones which required hours of reconstructive maxillofacial surgery was enough to result in his conviction while he maintained his innocence.". In other words, Mixon's plea claimed he didn't do it.

Mike Brown's statement is a blatant attempt to put a positive PR spin on yet another of his questionable draft picks with character concerns. Or it is evidence he is uninformed (unprepared) regarding the background of the players he is drafting.

If Mike is willing to lie to his fan base and Hamilton County, why wouldn't he lie to agents? And with the new CBA essentially slotting players contracts, why would he need to drag out the negotiations on a deal which is basically done once the player before and after the Bengals' pick sign their deals?

(04-19-2018, 03:51 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: If Mike Brown "nailed" Bob Bedinghaus during a business deal, why would Mike hire the guy who negotiated one of the worst business deals for Hamilton County to be the Bengals' director of business development? Was it because Mike admired what a shitty job Bedinghaus did when Mike "nailed" him?

Last year after drafting Mixon, Mike released a statement claiming Mixon "pleaded guilty in court, and accepted the consequences."

That's not true. Mixon entered an Alford plea which means he acknowledged the video evidence of him punching the woman in the face fracturing facial bones which required hours of reconstructive maxillofacial surgery was enough to result in his conviction while he maintained his innocence.". In other words, Mixon's plea claimed he didn't do it.

Mike Brown's statement is a blatant attempt to put a positive PR spin on yet another of his questionable draft picks with character concerns. Or it is evidence he is uninformed (unprepared) regarding the background of the players he is drafting.

If Mike is willing to lie to his fan base and Hamilton County, why wouldn't he lie to agents?  And with the new CBA essentially slotting players contracts, why would he need to drag out the negotiations on a deal which is basically done once the player before and after the Bengals' pick sign their deals?

The Alford plea appears to be Legal mumbo jumbo that covers all the bases including what Mike Brown said.

"An Alford plea (also called a Kennedy plea in West Virginia, an Alford guilty plea, and the Alford doctrine) in United States law is a guilty plea in criminal court, whereby a defendant in a criminal case does not admit to the criminal act and asserts innocence."

Mike doesn't just negotiate rookie slotted contracts and they have only been around a few years.

(04-19-2018, 04:19 PM)depthchart Wrote: The Alford plea appears to be Legal mumbo jumbo that covers all the bases including what Mike Brown said.

"An Alford plea (also called a Kennedy plea in West Virginia, an Alford guilty plea, and the Alford doctrine) in United States law is a guilty plea in criminal court, whereby a defendant in a criminal case does not admit to the criminal act and asserts innocence."

Mike doesn't just negotiate rookie slotted contracts and they have only been around a few years.

Where did Mike's statement include any mention of an Alford plea deal?

Mike also threatened to move the team because they weren't profitable, yet paid $200 million in cash for outstanding Bengals shares to buy out the other owners. Imagine a business with $200 million in petty cash, but inexplicably losing money. Mike Brown is unequivocally a liar.

(04-19-2018, 05:00 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Where did Mike's statement include any mention of an Alford plea deal?

Mike also threatened to move the team because they weren't profitable, yet paid $200 million in cash for outstanding Bengals shares to buy out the other owners.  Imagine a business with $200 million in petty cash, but inexplicably losing money.  Mike Brown is unequivocally a liar.

You said it was the Alford Plea in post #34.

You said in that same post that Mike stated that Mixon  "pleaded guilty in court".

Then you said that was a LIE and based calling it a lie on the Alford plea not being a guilty plea.

It is actually also called the Alford Guilty Plea.

Alford plea = "a GUILTY plea whereby a defendant in a criminal case does not admit to the criminal act and asserts innocence.

Read your own words in post #34.

(04-19-2018, 11:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I'm calling complete BS on this article. Least trustworthy??? Mike Brown and the Bengals are widely known for honoring contracts. If the agents don't like this organization, it's because they can't get one over on them.....

(04-19-2018, 11:46 AM)grampahol Wrote: Agents are really little more than  used car salesmen when you get right down to it .  

(04-19-2018, 11:56 AM)depthchart Wrote: Maybe...

I just don't see Mike Brown as being an "unprepared" person when it comes to committing his Money Long Term.

He strikes me as being a guy that would be very systematic and thorough heading into negotiations that involves his money.

He may give the appearance of being unprepared to stall the negotiations or buy some time or to obtain more information from the Agents.

I also doubt that he flat out lies to the Agents making him untrustworthy.

(04-19-2018, 12:03 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't care how the agents rate our front office.  

That is like asking criminals who is their favorite police officer.

Yes, yes, yes. Agents opine about trustworthiness???? Give me a break.

They should poll front office personnel and coaches, about agents. Ask players like Terrell Owens as to how they feels about their agents.

Players should be concerned about agents who are enamored with any particular Team/Owner/GM. Agents differentially treat players based on income potential, and negotiate to the detriment one player vs. another.

They lend money to poor kids coming out of college and double and triple charge them at signing. They then continually siphon from them not on just contract money, but also endorsements. Then there is the favorite - investment opportunities they present players.

(04-19-2018, 02:04 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do they operationally define what trustworthy means in regards to this poll?  My best guess is that it's hard to trust a guy like Mike Brown because he's completely untouchable so it's less about honor/honesty and more about him just being able to shrug things off and say "No deal" because he knows he's not going to fire himself if it was the wrong move.

Which other owner is going to fire himself?  All these guys are 'untouchable'.  <---  I take this back Nate.  There are non owners on that list.  Remainder of my statement below stands. 

The difference is everyone in the Bengals FO is 'untouchable' because they all share common deoxyribonucleic acid and/or are rubbing genitals with one another. 

(04-19-2018, 03:51 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: Last year after drafting Mixon, Mike released a statement claiming Mixon "pleaded guilty in court, and accepted the consequences."

That's not true. Mixon entered an Alford plea which means he acknowledged the video evidence of him punching the woman in the face fracturing facial bones which required hours of reconstructive maxillofacial surgery was enough to result in his conviction while he maintained his innocence.". In other words, Mixon's plea claimed he didn't do it.

Mike Brown's statement is a blatant attempt to put a positive PR spin on yet another of his questionable draft picks with character concerns. Or it is evidence he is uninformed (unprepared) regarding the background of the players he is drafting. 

An "Alford Plea" is a guilty plea.  Mixon was placed on probation, had to get counselling, paid costs, and performed 100 hours community service.

So Mike Brown was 100% correct when he said Mixon pleaded guilty and accepted the consequences.