(04-23-2018, 03:07 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: heres the thing though if we were looking at starting over we would have bounced the head coach too..  I don't think grabbing a top round QB helps us win right now. which seems to be the goal.

Makes sense if looking to the future but if marvin was brought back to win now.  then lets draft to win now.

I don't want Lamar.

I am just thinking what the odds are that Mike Brown does want him and that is who they take.

I see it as about a 20% chance they take him and maybe even lower than that.  A possibility.

I think it would be an earthshattering move for Fans if they did take him. Not a move I want them to make but it would be a Media frenzy.

(04-22-2018, 11:52 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: You should see what Dave Dameshek picked for us on the NFL Mock draft show if you hate this one.

Lamar Jackson

Saw that. That dude is a grade A dumbass. He started off by saying he's a steelers fan and he respects the ravens and the bengals aren't a rival blah blah blah. I wanted to punch his stupid bearded face. 

(04-23-2018, 03:21 PM)depthchart Wrote: I don't want Lamar.

I am just thinking what the odds are that Mike Brown does want him and that is who they take.

I see it as about a 20% chance they take him and maybe even lower than that.  A possibility.

I think it would be an earthshattering move for Fans if they did take him. Not a move I want them to make but it would be a Media frenzy.

It just wouldn't make much sense for Mike to give marvin more control then to step in and on his toes in the draft lol

(04-23-2018, 03:41 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: It just wouldn't make much sense for Mike to give marvin more control then to step in and on his toes in the draft lol

So you see a pick of Lamar Jackson as having a zero percent chance of happening or 5% or 10% etc.

What percent chance do you give it ?

(04-22-2018, 09:39 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Just a hunch but I think we better get used to the fact that the C we pick won't be Ragnow, Daniels or Price. If history is any indication of what's to come we won't select a C till round 4. I would love to have Ragnow and Price/Hernandez at G but I just don't see us going that direction early. My guess is our 1st RD pick will be DL/DB. Hope I'm wrong, even if someone on D falls in our lap, still doesn't fix our biggest need.

Why? Pollack is here now and we are obviously interested in Ragnow as we brought him in for a private visit.

If you are correct and we wait till the 4th round to get our Center and it is not Mason Cole i will flip out.

(04-23-2018, 01:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Like it or not, it's fair to point out Watson getting a serious injury only 6 games into his career. It's a concern.

When you look at Lamar Jackson, he looks brittle. NFL.com lists him at 6'3" and 200 lbs. So the same weight as Vick, but 3 inches taller.

I'd feel much better if he were 220, but that's a lot of bulk to add. Even if by some miracle he could add that much weight, would he lose some speed?

(04-23-2018, 02:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Non contact injury during a practice, literally could happen to anyone.

Lamar Jackson Combine measurables were same as Dalton- 6'2 216 lbs

I'm not a fan of the dual threat QBs because they are more likely to get injured. It's less about size and more about attacking the line of scrimmage taking hits like a runner. Newton is huge and he deals with things like twisted ankles, bruised ribs, and concussions. And before anyone says it yes other QBs get injured but it's a player who attacks the defense as a runner is more likely to be injured.

(04-23-2018, 03:45 PM)depthchart Wrote: So you see a pick of Lamar Jackson as having a zero percent chance of happening or 5% or 10% etc.

What percent chance do you give it ?

.01% chance...

I mean I guess it could happen but makes absolutely zero sense with the way the rest of the offseason has gone

but as the seagull says never say never

(04-23-2018, 02:31 PM)Au165 Wrote: Non contact injury during a practice, literally could happen to anyone.

Lamar Jackson Combine measurables were same as Dalton- 6'2 216 lbs

What kind of play was he injured on? Was he running? Did any previous hits contribute to the injury?

Dalton isn't really a running QB and doesn't take the punishment Jackson will at the NFL level. 

The funny thing is, I remember having similar discussions about RGIII on the old boards and people were vigorously defending him and his ability to stay healthy once he got to the NFL. 

This seems pretty simple. Running QBs take more hits and often don't brace for the hits as well as RBs. Vick didn't know how to slide. RGIII took some brutal hits. Defender's love getting a free shot at the QB when they don't have the same rule protections they have behind the LOS.

This isn't personal. Look at the list of running QBs and you see more injury riddled careers.

The only scenario where i would take Jackson was if we turned right around and traded Dalton for a hefty haul of picks.

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(04-20-2018, 04:02 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Rd1) Calvin Ridley WR Bama.....
Rd2) Will Hernandez G UTEP.....

His picks are about as bad as his haircut....

I Hate It.  A WR in Round 1, how insane.   We took a WR in round 1 last year.  Hernandez probably won't be on the board in Round 2.   Where is the top pick Center Bengals say they need.  We go into round 3 looking for a center probably worse than Bodine because we went weak on another finesse player WR.  We have AJ Green, Lafell, Boyd came on big end of season, don't count top pick Ross out so fast, and there are others like Erickson in the mix. They kept Eifert and have Kroft.  So Calvin Ridley or any WR, QB, RB, TE would be just a stupid pick when Bengals need Blocking and Tackling.  Here we have Bengals too weak to play other teams in the trenches, and this inside guy to Bengals is talking weak finesse players. If they make this pick, team stays weak and lucky to win 4 games. 

Do they understand you can't draft finesse players every year and expect to beat Steelers or Ravens. Don't they understand some of our best picks have been Bill Bergey, Mike Reid, Anthony Munoz, guys that Block or Tackle and make the Bengals tough enough to have a chance against Steelers.

I still say best guard or tackle on board at 21, then in 2 there should still be either Price or Daniels on board for a good solid center addition. Now we can block and open run lanes and protect Dalton. Like Burt Reynolds movie, Protect Superstar. We won't need any receivers if Dalton is getting sacked every play.

Hopkins pick is more of the Akili Smith type picks that has produced no play-off wins over 3 decades. Why does he have a man crush on Ridley. Look, once you get past the first 5 players on board or maybe the first 10, there are no more huge draft Superstars and it's all a crap shoot, so you might as well draft needs and our needs are Blocking and Tackling. Bengals are too WEAK to man up with the big boy teams, it's not receiving. We have receiving, we have no trenches. We have worst O Line in NFL. Take best Blocker on board in ONE and best center on board in TWO. Then start looking for Defense. Grab the Blockers early and then load up on Defense. Late rounds a RB and TE because they are good special teams, good back-up, good talent at RB and TE late, good depth. If we nail O Line early , we have rounds 3 and on to grab key Defensive help in mid rounds. Then we can put on Big Boy Pants and go out and play with the Big Boys. A draft of Blocking and Tackling improves Bengals play-off win chances 100 %.

We don't need Calvin Ridley or Lemar Jackson. What do these guys do, pull names out of a hat ???? At pick 21 you look to see who is on the board still from Guard-Quentin Nelson, LB-Roquan Smith, Tackle-Orlando Brown, Tackle-Kolton Miller, Center/ Guard-Frank Ragnow, Tackle-Mike McGlinchey, Guard-Will Hernandez, Tackle/ Guard-Isaiah Wynn, Center/Guard-Billy Price. I have no idea how Bengals have these players listed, but they simply grab the best one still on the board. If they don't get a Center, come back in 2 and get the center. If they do get a center, come back in 2 and take a tackle or a guard. It's not rocket science and throwing Ridley and Jackson in is nonsense. Get the Blockers, then from 3 on grab Defense. Come out with Blocking and Tackling so we can grab Steelers by the nose and kick them in the astroturf.

(04-22-2018, 08:30 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: We pick another WR or CB in the first round I'm gonna drive to Cincinnati and ***** slap everybody from Mike on down.

Stop by and pick me up, I'm going with you.

(04-24-2018, 02:41 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: What kind of play was he injured on? Was he running? Did any previous hits contribute to the injury?

Dalton isn't really a running QB and doesn't take the punishment Jackson will at the NFL level. 

The funny thing is, I remember having similar discussions about RGIII on the old boards and people were vigorously defending him and his ability to stay healthy once he got to the NFL. 

This seems pretty simple. Running QBs take more hits and often don't brace for the hits as well as RBs. Vick didn't know how to slide. RGIII took some brutal hits. Defender's love getting a free shot at the QB when they don't have the same rule protections they have behind the LOS.

This isn't personal. Look at the list of running QBs and you see more injury riddled careers.

A non contact play. You are trying hard to make your example work, but it won't. As all articles around the time said it was a freak accident that could have happened to anyone, keyword there anyone. Sam Bradford's injury was non contact too, but I don't see anyone trying to attribute that to anything other than a freak accident.

The Dalton point was about Jackson being small or not thick enough. We have ran Andy a decent amount in his career and he actually ran a pretty good amount in college as well. You have this weird vision in your mind that Lamar Jackson seeks contact like Cam Newton he doesn't. If you remember RG3 was criticized for not sliding and taking unneeded hits, in fact his last injury came when he decided to not go down. Cam Newton also seeks out contact, at least earlier in his career, combine that with them running him up the middle and that was an issue. 

I'm not even necessarily disagreeing that by running they could face more injuries, but I think your examples thus far have been bad. I'll point to Russell Wilson as a counter point. He has shown that if you use the run in a way that doesn't expose you to extra hits you can revolutionize the position. Even Desaun Watson last year was good at avoiding unneeded hits when he ran down field. You don't have to design special run plays for them and expose them to hits, you simply let them use it as an option if they get in trouble, that is where the value is it's in strategically using the ability not abusing it (Cam Newton).

I am simply saying Sean Payton is on record saying he likes the guy and Bill Bellicheck is also intrigued by the guy, two of the best offensive (and QB) minded coaches in the NFL. This idea that because he can run is a bad thing is really what bothers me. You don't want guys who bring less to the table, you want guys who bring more. Side note, I don't want the Bengals to take him unless it's in the 2nd as I just don't think it's a high enough priority yet.

(04-22-2018, 10:54 PM)TKUHL Wrote: Both should be there in the 4th. I know the draft is just a crap shoot but I wish we would get a stud C early and then address other needs. Even with the addition of Glenn I think we still need help at OT. I know I know Fisher was playing better but we still need depth. If they have Fisher and Glenn as our starters, would we pick a OT in the first for depth? Same situation with LB but the coaches felt that was a need even before Burfict was suspended. For that reason I think we go LB in the 1st hopefully C in RD 2. That leaves OT/DB/TE in my opinion. We have 2 picks in the 3rd, would love for us to find a way to trade back into the 3rd or even 2nd RD to fill those positions.

Vander Esch or Hernandez in 1, Ragnow or Daniels in 2, Brown/Crosby or Jones & Hayden Hurst in 3 and I would be very happy.

Corbett?  Most likely a 2nd rounder/

(04-24-2018, 03:02 AM)Storer50 Wrote: The only scenario where i would take Jackson was if we turned right around and traded Dalton for a hefty haul of picks.

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At this point - you would probably get 1 pick for Dalton.  The demand has dried up considerably.

(04-23-2018, 08:54 AM)Au165 Wrote: Watson threw for 400 yards against Seattle, 300 against the Patriots, 283 vs the Titans, in fact in the after his 1st two starts he threw for at least 225 in his next 5 games before he got hurt. Bridgewater is not a runner and never has been. Norv Turner tried unsuccessfully to turn him in to one which he was not. RG3 was a run first QB coming out of college that was never asked to read more than half a field and take off after 2 reads max. Jackson only ran on 25% of designed passing plays, meaning he stood in the pocket and tried to make the throws, also note he was asked to make 3 reads often in a pro style offense.This post reeks of racial stereotypes that it seems you threw Manziel in for good measure to point to and say see "nuh uh". Manziel relied heavily on Mike Evans to bail him out in college with jump balls. When you put on the tape you see a guy who could buy time, and often times tried to create chaos on purpose for the splash plays, which is nothing like what Lamar Jackson does. 


I don't know if Jackson will be great or not, but lumping him in with "these guys" is a mistake. 

Wow.... give a honest critique on a player by naming other players who have the same playing style is now racist.

Can't make this stuff up.

Did you want me to include Tebow?  I mean he is also the same player as well.  I used Manziel not to point to him and say "nuh uh", I used him because the graph on NFL Network had QBs that threw for 3k and rushed for over 1,500.  Their names were Vince Young, Johnny Manziel, DeShaun Watson and Jackson did it back to back.

The "analyst" all agreed that hopefully Jackson has the same career as 1 of these guys.

"Career"?  Really?  7 games is NOT a career.  Or maybe they were pointing to Young, if so, then pass.

Now to address you pitiful points.  Seattle hasn't been the LOB since the 2nd SB appearance, NE has never been a dominant defensive team, and the Titans are divisional foes and stats don't really tell the whole story with those games.

I can lump Jackson in with Young, Watson and Manziel if the NFL uses a comparison sheet with those names on it.  Not my fault 3 of the 4 are black.  Not my fault that 2 of the 4 are out of the league and that I am not sold on Watson like other people are.  I can point to other QBs that have the same playing style that wasn't on the graph that have found themselves sitting on the bench due to injury as in RGIII and Teddy Bridgewater. 

To claim this "reeks of racial undertones" will continue to push MORE people away from the NFL, if you can't critique a player without being called a racist.  

(04-24-2018, 01:21 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Wow.... give a honest critique on a player by naming other players who have the same playing style is now racist.

Can't make this stuff up.

Did you want me to include Tebow?  I mean he is also the same player as well.  I used Manziel not to point to him and say "nuh uh", I used him because the graph on NFL Network had QBs that threw for 3k and rushed for over 1,500.  Their names were Vince Young, Johnny Manziel, DeShaun Watson and Jackson did it back to back.

The "analyst" all agreed that hopefully Jackson has the same career as 1 of these guys.

"Career"?  Really?  7 games is NOT a career.  Or maybe they were pointing to Young, if so, then pass.

Now to address you pitiful points.  Seattle hasn't been the LOB since the 2nd SB appearance, NE has never been a dominant defensive team, and the Titans are divisional foes and stats don't really tell the whole story with those games.

I can lump Jackson in with Young, Watson and Manziel if the NFL uses a comparison sheet with those names on it.  Not my fault 3 of the 4 are black.  Not my fault that 2 of the 4 are out of the league and that I am not sold on Watson like other people are.  I can point to other QBs that have the same playing style that wasn't on the graph that have found themselves sitting on the bench due to injury as in RGIII and Teddy Bridgewater. 

To claim this "reeks of racial undertones" will continue to push MORE people away from the NFL, if you can't critique a player without being called a racist.  

I agree, color shouldn't be in this discussion.

Honestly Lamar's play reminds me of the guy we already have on our team, Jeff Driskel.

But actually liked Driskel's throwing motion last Preseason and i don't like Lamar's throwing motion. Too gadgety.

Not smooth at all.

(04-20-2018, 04:18 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hernandez in the 2nd would be a steal. Ridley would be a value pick that I'd actually be okay with, because it would allow us to move on from LaFell in my mind (and I have been a LaFell defender). I am not going to knock Hobson overall here because he strictly went value and in both cases he got good value. 

Hernandez is a good GUARD. So..who plays C?  we underemployed the last  hiigh pick WR's.. so.. we get another?  Hernandez likely wont last long into rd 2.

One thing... put Hernandez nezt to glenn and that side of the line is MASSIVE.

(04-24-2018, 02:17 PM)redwood Wrote: Hernandez is a good GUARD. So..who plays C?  we underemployed the last  hiigh pick WR's.. so.. we get another?  Hernandez likely wont last long into rd 2.

One thing... put Hernandez nezt to glenn and that side of the line is MASSIVE.

Hernandez won't make the second so it is moot, but if we took Hernandez I'd grab Austin Corbbett of Nevada to play center either in the 3rd or by trading back into the 2nd for him.

(04-24-2018, 01:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I agree, color shouldn't be in this discussion.

Honestly Lamar's play reminds me of the guy we already have on our team, Jeff Driskel.

But actually liked Driskel's throwing motion last Preseason and i don't like Lamar's throwing motion. Too gadgety.

Not smooth at all.

Exactly.  Lamar's mechanics aren't smooth and he looks as if he is thinking way to much on his throws. 

I know that the pick won't happen as it would not make any sense whatsoever.  A new HC and this is a different conversation, but we still have Lewis and Dalton will still be here until Lewis leaves, not that this is a bad thing neccessarily. 

Now if the argument were that Jackson and Watson's reminded people of Russell Wilson and that is why they like him, then I would understand that.  I would also say that Wilson is the outlier and not the norm when it comes to QBs that make plays with their legs.  Not only that but all it takes is one solid hit on Wilson and he will be down and then Seattle will be in serious trouble.

As to Cam Newton.  I do believe he is wearing down.  He isn't the same player at the end of the season as he was in his earlier playing days.  I wouldn't be surprised if Newton isn't as effective this year as he will be either asked to stay in the pocket to avoid those hits or he winds up getting hit and injured.  I wish we didn't have to face Carolina until later in the season as that will be when Cam will be least effective.  Of course the Ravens and Steelers get him a little later, but the Browns have him at a great spot.

(04-24-2018, 02:22 PM)Au165 Wrote: Hernandez won't make the second so it is moot, but if we took Hernandez I'd grab Austin Corbbett of Nevada to play center either in the 3rd or by trading back into the 2nd for him.

I always love these comments.

I remember when people said that David DeCastro will not make it to us in 2012.

I also remember when people said that Billings would be a 1st rounder.

Every year there are players that are expected to go before we have a chance at them or won't make it pass round 1 and every year those guys are there.  Sometimes they are there until the 4th round, and some are there even later.