firstly I'm not trying to put a curse on JJ!

...he's a great player but i was looking at his career and recent injury history and it got me thinking if he never gets back to near where he was has he already done enough for the HoF?

my initial reaction was he's a lock surely....but looking again I wondered.  With the likes of boselli and Terrell davis struggling is there a case for more longevity needed?

davis had a freaky 4 year streak (like JJ) but he got 2 SBs which we know counts massively for the HoF and got him in.  JJ and Texans barely did anything apart from beat us in the playoffs :) in that period so he can't  rely on that.

boselli like watt was considered the best lineman (offense) at his career peak, made the all decade team which watt surely will , but again no SBs and longevity/availability = no HoF.

I think watts 3 defensive player of the years should be enough whatever but interested to hear opinions as some rightly say HoF is about  great career..not just a great streak

To me he is the greatest defensive player ever so if he retired today he is in the hall of fame. For a player to do what he did at the 5 technique is completely insane.

I'd put him in, but I don't think the people that vote would.

'12-'15 arguably the greatest 4 year run by a defensive player ever. 3 X Defensive POY, lead the league in sacks twice and finished second once, led the league in stuffs (tackles for loss on running plays) all four years, led all d-linemen in solo tackles all four years, led all D-linemen in total tackles twice and finished second twice. 15 forced fumbles over that span is second (by one).

(05-15-2018, 06:44 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I'd put him in, but I don't think the people that vote would.

'12-'15 arguably the greatest 4 year run by a defensive player ever.  3 X Defensive POY, lead the league in sacks twice and finished second once, led the league in stuffs (tackles for loss on running plays) all four years, led all d-linemen in solo tackles all four years, led all D-linemen in total tackles twice and finished second twice.  15 forced fumbles over that span is second (by one).

I typically really value longevity when assessing the 'greats'.

Longer , sustained excellence and availability really differentiates players who whilst talented may have fit in one particular scheme or had a great supporting cast for a particular period of time.

if you do it for 10+ years you will have been great most likely whilst seeing multiple scheme, coaching, personnel changes .....heck , even the games changes in 10 years...e.g. Munoz was excellent when he came into the league facing 250lb DL and 10 years later whilst not as dominant he was still great when dealing with the new 280-300lb DL

BUT, I agree that Watts 4 year run was so ridiculously good that it should trump everything even if he never gets back to that level from here on in

(05-15-2018, 06:29 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: To me he is the greatest defensive player ever so if he retired today he is in the hall of fame. For a player to do what he did at the 5 technique is completely insane.

That's a big statement  - agreed he was insanely good but when you're talking the very best ever then it gets so tight that longevity has to play a part surely.

For me i would struggle to put him above LT and Reggie White unless he gets back to his 4 year run level of play for a number of years.

LT was not only dominant like JJ but he actually impacted how the game was played and how offenses would block blitzing linebackers.

At their very best Reggie and JJ are similar (which shows how ridiculously good Watt is) but White's long term production is ridiculous and would probably tip the balance in any 'best ever' comparision....in his 16th professional year inc. USFL Reggie played 16 games and racked up 16 sacks.  Not sure I see JJ watt doing that in 2026!!

(05-16-2018, 07:06 AM)sonofstat Wrote: That's a big statement  - agreed he was insanely good but when you're talking the very best ever then it gets so tight that longevity has to play a part surely.

For me i would struggle to put him above LT and Reggie White unless he gets back to his 4 year run level of play for a number of years.

LT was not only dominant like JJ but he actually impacted how the game was played and how offenses would block blitzing linebackers.

At their very best Reggie and JJ are similar (which shows how ridiculously good Watt is) but White's long term production is ridiculous and would probably tip the balance in any 'best ever' comparision....in his 16th professional year inc. USFL Reggie played 16 games and racked up 16 sacks.  Not sure I see JJ watt doing that in 2026!!

I would argue that JJ did change the game especially considering that no defensive lineman cared about pass deflections before JJ made it a thing. Also he had 20 sacks twice in a career how many other players have done that. Zero.  

(05-16-2018, 08:45 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would argue that JJ did change the game especially considering that no defensive lineman cared about pass deflections before JJ made it a thing. Also he had 20 sacks twice in a career how many other players have done that. Zero.  

Yeah but hes only played a solid what 5 years? part of being a hall of famer over a flash in the pan is to continue producing at that or a high level for a long time

(05-18-2018, 11:23 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah but hes only played a solid what 5 years? part of being a hall of famer over a flash in the pan is to continue producing at that or a high  level for a long time

Terrell Davis.

(05-18-2018, 11:23 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Yeah but hes only played a solid what 5 years? part of being a hall of famer over a flash in the pan is to continue producing at that or a high  level for a long time

He has accomplished more in three years than players do in 15.   Winning 2 defensive MVP  awards is pretty damn impressive.

This is his character?

Quote:J.J. Watt to pay for Santa Fe H.S. victims' funerals

• 
• By Andie Hagemann
• Around The NFL Writer
• Published: May 19, 2018 at 01:00 a.m.
• Updated: May 20, 2018 at 07:40 a.m.
  

On Friday, a 17-year-old male opened fire at Santa Fe High School, killing 10 people and injuring others, per the Associated Press. The high school is located in the greater Houston area.

Houston Texans defensive end J.J. Watt informed the school that he will personally cover the funeral expenses for the victims of the May 18 tragedy. He tweeted about the tragedy Friday morning.

Quote:
[/url]JJ Watt

✔@JJWatt

Absolutely horrific.
11:07 AM - May 18, 2018

• 
  18.8K
• 
  [url=https://twitter.com/JJWatt/status/997493772517892096]3,367 people are talking about this
  

The Texans organization offered their condolences to the victims, their families and those affected.

"On behalf of the Texans organization, we are saddened by the tragic events at Santa Fe High School this morning and extend our thoughts and heartfelt condolences to the victims, their families and all those affected. We are grateful for the brave first responders, law enforcement officials and medical personnel. The Texans family will continue to pray for our neighbors."

Watt, who was the 2017 recipient of the prestigious Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year Award, helped raise more than $37 million for people affected by Hurricane Harvey last fall.

Personally, I think that he gets in, even if he never plays another down of football.

The amount of impact a player has on the game isn't always determined by the length of his career. Look at Gale Sayers. He was only in the league for 7 years, and he did very little his first two. I've never heard anyone present any arguments for him not being worthy of being in the HoF.

(05-20-2018, 02:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Personally, I think that he gets in, even if he never plays another down of football.

The amount of impact a player has on the game isn't always determined by the length of his career.  Look at Gale Sayers.  He was only in the league for 7 years, and he did very little his first two.  I've never heard anyone present any arguments for him not being worthy of being in the HoF.

Probly because he played before half of us were born and we have no clue who he is lol  

The Hall is a joke, so it really doesn't matter. Just like the Rock And Roll HOF, the really really good ones struggle to get in while mediocre one's make it quickly....