(06-07-2018, 02:23 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: How’s it silly? Lawson’s 8.5 sacks put him ahead of a Pro Bowler in Burfict who has been dominant since coming into the league? To me that’s silly.

Hes slow, always injured, and he usely get some penalty that costs us. Lawson is on his way to being elite Pass rusher, Dunlap is a complete Defensive End, William Jackson is already an elite CB, and Geno is a first ballot HOF. I would take all 4 of those guys ahead of Vontaz.

(06-07-2018, 10:45 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Hes slow, always injured, and he usely get some penalty that costs us. Lawson is on his way to being elite Pass rusher, Dunlap is a complete Defensive End, William Jackson is already an elite CB, and Geno is a first ballot HOF. I would take all 4 of those guys ahead of Vontaz.

Eifert is also always injured but he’s the only other elite player on offense other than Green. It’s about how they play when they are on the field. We’re talking about elite playmakers, not durability.

And as “slow” as Tez is he sure flies around the field making plays. Probably has something to do with having off the charts football IQ.

(06-06-2018, 08:30 PM)pally Wrote: Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Vonteze Burfict
William Jackson III

This.

That said, I can't hate on bfine throwing Brown on in place of WJ3. I'd say those two are interchangeable.

One led the league in tackles, and I think the other is viewed as an up and comer to those that are aware.

The Bengals being out of the national spotlight kinda hurts WJ3, but it's not like the light was shining much brighter on Buffalo.

"Elite" is being easily thrown around in this thread. There is one member of the Bengals defense I consider elite and that is Geno Atkins.

Dunlap is a solid strong side end but he isn't in the same league as the elite ends.

WJ3 only played part of a season and has stuff to work on. (John Sheeran over at Cincy Jingle did an excellent film study on WJ3 recently.) Is Jackson on his way? Sure but he's not there yet.

Carl Lawson is in the same boat as WJ3 one season and a one trick pony. He is going to have to continue to develop to be considered elite.

Preston Brown led the league in tackles but wasn't a playmaker that would put him in that elite catagory.

Last and certainly not least Burfict is probably the closest to that distinction behind Geno but concussions and suspensions have held back Burficts career.

Yep, I consider only two Bengals to have the elite distinction AJ Green and Geno Atkins.

(06-07-2018, 10:44 AM)pally Wrote: Preston Brown is NOT Tom Brady

Pretty sure you are right.

Pretty sure you missed the point.

(06-07-2018, 12:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: Lots of top 100 lists out there. I'm merely suggesting a national audience might suggest Preston Brown is above WJIII

The Bills and Bengals get about the same press..... next to none. 

(06-06-2018, 08:30 PM)pally Wrote: Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Vonteze Burfict
William Jackson III

Hope we can add a few more elite players soon enough. I think that Lawson, Billings, Dennard, Bates, Hubbard, Jefferson,
Willis all could have a shot at being elite. Just will take time, all are really young. Will Jax might just be the next Revis, never
know. Dude has all the traits to be an elite Corner.

In the last 4 years Vontaze has had one year with 100 tackles. The other three years his best year was 74 tackles. He has finished behind Maualuga and Karlos Dansby which most on here think was bad players. Vincent Rey a back up player that has never won a starting job here beat him out three of those years in tackles. I know he got a raw deal with one of the suspensions but he comes in out of shape and has to play to get into shape which costs the team. Along with concussions and suspensions on top of that he makes bonehead plays that we get flagged for that has contributed to us losing games. Far from a pro bowler. His first two years in the NFL he was a very good player but since that time he has fallen way off the mark of being elite. If the downward trend continues till the end of his career he will be known as an underachiever.

Geno & Burfict (when he is on the field that is) are my top two.

Dunlap is next, though I dont consider him elite, just a very good, top notch end.

WJ3 is too early to call him elite after only 1 season. Though he very well could be on the way to being elite.

Lawson is the same as WJ3.

* Of course this is depending on if elite here is relative to the team or to the league? Because what I said is the latter.

(06-07-2018, 04:34 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Geno & Burfict (when he is on the field that is) are my top two.

Dunlap is next, though I dont consider him elite, just a very good, top notch end.

WJ3 is too early to call him elite after only 1 season. Though he very well could be on the way to being elite.

Lawson is the same as WJ3.

* Of course this is depending on if elite here is relative to the team or to the league? Because what I said is the latter.

Same here. I don't think most folks are claiming these guys are truly "elite"...just the closest to elite on our defense.

(06-07-2018, 11:00 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eifert is also always injured but he’s the only other elite player on offense other than Green. It’s about how they play when they are on the field. We’re talking about elite playmakers, not durability.

And as “slow” as Tez is he sure flies around the field making plays. Probably has something to do with having off the charts football IQ.

 Of course ability is a measurement of wether or not a player is elite. What are you smoking?

(06-07-2018, 07:02 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote:  Of course ability is a measurement of wether or not a player is elite. What are you smoking?

I don’t even know what you’re talking about at this point.

All I said was injuries do not negate a player being elite. Is Gronk not elite? Does Burfict take too many penalties? Of course. Again, doesn’t mean he’s not an elite LB. Was James Harrison not elite back in his prime when the league was always coming down on him?

If you want to put two first year players ahead of him more power to you. I don’t think many other than the guy named after a bong will agree though...

(06-07-2018, 08:17 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t even know what you’re talking about at this point.

All I said was injuries do not negate a player being elite. Is Gronk not elite? Does Burfict take too many penalties? Of course. Again, doesn’t mean he’s not an elite LB.  Was James Harrison not elite back in his prime when the league was always coming down on him?

If you want to put two first year players ahead of him more power to you. I don’t think many other than the guy named after a bong will agree though...

I am not really agreeing with anyone. I am saying it is not a clear cut these 4 guys are the best and everyone else is wrong. An argument can be made that Vontaze's 69 tackles and 1.5 sacks did not have a bigger impact then Lawson's 16 tackles and 8.5 sacks with limited snaps because of playing time not suspensions. Thanks for the shout out tho.