(07-09-2018, 09:16 AM)cooper Wrote: wrong...........some ..not most

and the scouts were correct in this case

Most. Including both tackles taken at the top of the first this year. (McGlinchey, Miller)

(07-09-2018, 01:20 AM)grampahol Wrote: I still hope ALL Bengals players find success at an extremely high level. I've never hoped any Bengal player would wash out . I'm always perplexed to read certain posters desires to see Bengals players fail. I just don't understand the logic or lack thereof ..

you need to find a way to spend some time with bengals players..most are genuinely good guys..  yet some are jerks, dont train hard and inhibit the success of  the team..

lol seeing players fail..do you think comments on this board cause players to fail

so you want to see Ced, etc..continue to play poorly.. inhibit the success of the team..and still be on the team  because you feel sorry for him?

(07-09-2018, 09:22 AM)Synric Wrote: Most. Including both tackles taken at the top of the first this year. (McGlinchey, Miller)

1) thats not most..dont even begin to compare Ced to McGlinchey
2) this is going to be Ceds 3rd year..he has not..hes a bust

(07-08-2018, 04:41 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Yeah, I'm not in the camp of, "Well wasted draft pick, let's move on from him."  Like most early round draft picks I think it is better to hope he can improve and be a benefit to the team.  Let's hope he is working hard to live up to his draft position.  I'd like to think he is.

I never understand why some fans get so emotionally involved with our high draft picks, they have invested nothing financially, yet act like they lost their first kid when one fails to live up to draft position. I agree 100% with you!

I will root for our players to get better until the day they are no longer a Bengal. I am not saying he will improve enough to be a great OT, but I sure hope the light goes on and he does in 2018. If not, he is not signed for 2019 so we can cut him with no financial loss and move on.

(07-09-2018, 09:24 AM)cooper Wrote: 1) thats not most..dont even begin to compare Ced to McGlinchey
2) this is going to be Ceds 3rd year..he has not..hes a bust

I'm not comparing just saying it's common to read core strength needs to be better in most draft profiles.

Also I'd say Ogbuehi's issue is more technique and aggressiveness than strength. He allows defenders into his chest and try to bear hug them I don't care how strong you are when you give up leverage your going to lose.....See Russell Bodine.

If Pollock thinks he is our best RT then I will give him a chance, if not then it's a sunk cost and we move on.

Side note, fans for the most part know nothing about O line technique so they tend to discredit how big a change technique or scheme changes can have on a players performance. Evan Mathis is a perfect example of this in relatively recent Bengals history. People tend to acknowledge the difference in offensive schemes for skill positions and QB's but the lineman tend to be forgotten and it is basically "you suck" or " you're good" contrary to scheme fit or the technique being used.

(07-09-2018, 09:30 AM)Synric Wrote: I'm not comparing just saying it's common to read core strength needs to be better in most draft profiles.

Also I'd say Ogbuehi's issue is more technique and aggressiveness than strength. He allows defenders into his chest and try to bear hug them I don't care how strong you are when you give up leverage your going to lose.....See Russell Bodine.

watch game films..ced gets pushed back to the quarterback on almost every play..then look at games with whitworth..you will see the difference

Russell Bodine had great training room strength

I am not going to have this debate..coaches will make the decisions and would imagine ced is either a backup or not on the team

(07-09-2018, 09:39 AM)Au165 Wrote: Side note, fans for the most part know nothing about O line technique so they tend to discredit how big a change technique or scheme changes can have on a players performance. Evan Mathis is a perfect example of this in relatively recent Bengals history. People tend to acknowledge the difference in offensive schemes for skill positions and QB's but the lineman tend to be forgotten and it is basically "you suck" or " you're good" contrary to scheme fit or the technique being used.

so given that premise...with a new line coach  and Ced at left tackle and Bodine at center do you feel that this offensive line would perform...doubt it

Ced is not strong enough..never gained strength and Bodine had training room strength

you do realize that whitworth had "lousy training room strength"...but on the field he was hercules

(07-08-2018, 04:26 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/08/cedric-ogbuehi-feels-comfortable-at-right-tackle/

“With this technique, the right side is kind of better for me, using the hands more,” Ogbuehi said, via Jim Owczarski of the Cincinnati Enquirer. “With the old technique, I think the left was a little bit [better]. Coming in at right, at a new position, I felt comfortable. Feeling comfortable is a big part of it. I played it. I know what to expect now. I know a lot; like what to do better than last time. I’m excited for the challenge. I’m excited for camp.”

Using the hands more? I can recall many times where Ogbuehi never got his hands up at all before the defense got on him...

well he has camp to prove it or the Not For Long will be his NFL experience.

(07-09-2018, 09:32 AM)Au165 Wrote: If Pollock thinks he is our best RT then I will give him a chance, if not then it's a sunk cost and we move on.

Basically this^^^

and think everybody wants Ced to be great or at least serviceable, but some of us are doubting it comes to fruition. 

New coach though so he has new life. Hopefully he worked his butt off and does it, but if not it is time to cut ties. 

(07-09-2018, 10:40 AM)cooper Wrote: so given that premise...with a new line coach  and Ced at left tackle and Bodine at center do you feel that this offensive line would perform...doubt it

Ced is not strong enough..never gained strength and Bodine had training room strength

you do realize that whitworth had "lousy training room strength"...but on the field he was hercules

Did you ask me a question and deliver an answer? You obviously have your mind made up which is fine, but I'd guess you know little to nothing about offensive line technique to explain why someone is bad. 

You keep referencing strength yet you just pointed to two bad players one with great strength and one you claim lacks strength. If your idea of strength was a big deal how can both be bad? Maybe it has something to do with the poor technique both had inside the scheme they were asked to operate in? How do you convert "lousy training room strength" to " on field Hercules" as Whitworth did? That would be through proper technique.

Now maybe you ask, "Well if the technique was bad why did Whitworth succeed"? That answer falls into my whole point, different people excel at different schemes and techniques. If you take a press man corner and ask them to play off zone they may struggle, if you ask a D Lineman speed rusher to be a power rusher he may struggle, if I ask a one cut HB to play in a power scheme he may struggle. My whole point is people like to simply say lineman suck, or are too weak, when in fact they just don't know about the techniques they use to even begin to determine why someone is bad. 

With all this said Ced may still be bad, but I trust the guy who has coached a plethora of All Pro lineman over people who couldn't tell you the difference between Zone, Gap and Man blocking schemes. If at the end of the day they Ced gives us the best chance to win then I'll throw my faith behind him. 

(07-09-2018, 11:18 AM)Au165 Wrote: Did you ask me a question and deliver an answer? You obviously have your mind made up which is fine, but I'd guess you know little to nothing about offensive line technique to explain why someone is bad. 

You keep referencing strength yet you just pointed to two bad players one with great strength and one you claim lacks strength. If your idea of strength was a big deal how can both be bad? Maybe it has something to do with the poor technique both had inside the scheme they were asked to operate in? How do you convert "lousy training room strength" to " on field Hercules" as Whitworth did? That would be through proper technique.

Now maybe you ask, "Well if the technique was bad why did Whitworth succeed"? That answer falls into my whole point, different people excel at different schemes and techniques. If you take a press man corner and ask them to play off zone they may struggle, if you ask a D Lineman speed rusher to be a power rusher he may struggle, if I ask a one cut HB to play in a power scheme he may struggle. My whole point is people like to simply say lineman suck, or are too weak, when in fact they just don't know about the techniques they use to even begin to determine why someone is bad. 

With all this said Ced may still be bad, but I trust the guy who has coached a plethora of All Pro lineman over people who couldn't tell you the difference between Zone, Gap and Man blocking schemes. If at the end of the day they Ced gives us the best chance to win then I'll throw my faith behind him. 

This.  He won't be out there if he can't do the job.  If he is out there, it means he won the job and deserves the spot.

(07-09-2018, 09:18 AM)cooper Wrote: lol@ mean streak

..so let me get this straight..getting nasty and mean is going to make ced stronger so that he does not get pushed around by every defensive lineman in the league?

It's pretty simple really, if you do not have the aggressiveness to assert your will over your opponents, you will fail, regardless of how strong you are. 

This is not geared toward anyone and only an observation.

It is Ced saying this and have not heard Pollack say he is the frontrunner for the spot.

We know it is the only chance he has without injury per Cordy will man LT obviously, Ced can not move to the inside imo, so RT is his only thing left for him.

The writing is on the wall and if he does not emerge before rookie contract is over he will be gone anyway.

Hopefully he does kick butt because we need someone to on that side. We are still thin on OL in my book.

Yet think it will ultimately be someone else who wins job. May even be someone emerges as a serviceable Guard and Boling plays RT.

(07-09-2018, 11:38 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Yet think it will ultimately be someone else who wins job. May even be someone emerges as a serviceable Guard and Boling plays RT.

I like this idea, but they seem pretty interested in keeping Glenn and Boling together. I think we are better suited to do this honestly as I have more faith in a Hopkins Westerman combo with Boling at RT than any other combo. 

(07-09-2018, 11:41 AM)Au165 Wrote: I like this idea, but they seem pretty interested in keeping Glenn and Boling together. I think we are better suited to do this honestly as I have more faith in a Hopkins Westerman combo with Boling at RT than any other combo. 

You guys might be on to something here.

(07-08-2018, 06:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: If by "new technique" they mean he can now transform into a mean, ugly bastard?  Then yeah, he might have a legit shot at winning the job.  However, it's quite easy to feel like a mean, ugly bastard in shorts and helmets.  We'll see how well it translates when the pads go on, later this month.

This^

I would be elated if Ogbuehi turned it around and becomes a solid lineman. But I don't think technique is his problem, nor do I buy that changing techniques alone will fix him.

(07-09-2018, 11:32 AM)Sled21 Wrote: It's pretty simple really, if you do not have the aggressiveness to assert your will over your opponents, you will fail, regardless of how strong you are. 

And this^

I don'y believe strength, technique, being able to bench press a pickup truck or footwork or whatever else you can come up with is his real problem.

And I don't think anybody but Ced can fix him, if Pollack does it I'll be elated and put him in or coach of the year !