(07-25-2018, 08:21 AM)BigPapaKain Wrote: God damn Rodgers is overrated.

All time ranking? A full 5 pts over second
Rank Player Rate Years Tm
1 Aaron Rodgers. 103.8 2005-2017 gnb
2 Russell Wilson 98.8 2012-2017 sea
3 Tom Brady 97.6 2000-2017 nwe
4 Tony Romo 97.1 2004-2016 dal
5 Steve Young+ 96.8 1985-1999 2TM
6 Drew Brees 96.7 2001-2017 2TM
7 Peyton Manning 96.5 1998-2015 2TM
8 Philip Rivers 94.8 2004-2017 sdg
9 Ben Roethlisberger94.0 2004-2017 pit

(07-25-2018, 02:58 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: Well he don't so he ain't on Brady's level. Period.

Eli Manning has twice the number of rings that Rodgers does, is he twice the QB?

*Not arguing Brady isn’t the GOAT btw, just that suggesting Rodgers is overrated, or isn’t a generational talent because he only has one ring so far is ridiculous.

(07-25-2018, 04:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eli Manning has twice the number of rings that Rodgers does, is he twice the QB?

*Not arguing Brady isn’t the GOAT btw, just that suggesting Rodgers is overrated, or isn’t a generational talent because he only has one ring so far is ridiculous.

Completely agree, Brady is great but i seriously believe Rodgers is the more talented QB.

Brady just has that crazy ass fire that no one else has. He wants it the most and pushes himself the hardest.

Rodgers can just do things that other QB's simply cannot.

(07-25-2018, 03:03 PM)Wyche Wrote: My thoughts as well.....although I get it if they are basing off last season.

Luck stays tier 2 after not taking a single snap?

(07-25-2018, 04:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eli Manning has twice the number of rings that Rodgers does, is he twice the QB?

*Not arguing Brady isn’t the GOAT btw, just that suggesting Rodgers is overrated, or isn’t a generational talent because he only has one ring so far is ridiculous.

Rodgers is good he throws pretty passes generally to the right team.    But lets not act like the patriots have an all-star lineup year in year out.

(07-25-2018, 05:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Rodgers is good he throws pretty passes generally to the right team.    But lets not act like the patriots have an all-star lineup year in year out.

And the pack do?

(07-25-2018, 05:40 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: And the pack do?

Not saying that they do but nice try...  Just saying theres been years Brady has no names to throw too the defense gets gutted and yet there they are AFC Champship game.    


Aaron Rodgers does have the best Commericals though...   If Rodgers didn't like the situation he was in and thought it was no good he could have forced his way out.

(07-25-2018, 04:10 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Eli Manning has twice the number of rings that Rodgers does, is he twice the QB?

Oh PLEASE!!!!  You can't go by rings. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson each have a ring.  Were they the QB Rodgers is?

Since Rodgers didn't start playing full time until 2008, here are the stats both for Manning and Rodgers from 2008 to present.

Manning

Total TDs - 262

Total Ints - 164

QBR - 83.5

Rodgers

Total TDs - 313

Total Ints - 78

QBR - 103.8

(07-24-2018, 06:45 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Biggest talk in the NFL today is the just released QB tier ratings by ESPN, The list is compiled by 10 general managers, five head coaches, 10 coordinators, 10 senior personnel executives, five QB coaches and 10 others with job titles ranging from assistant coach to salary-cap manager to analytics director.

Our boy Andy comes in at #22, but hey; that's 10 spots higher than the QB we parted ways with.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/91gkze/espns_2018_nfl_qb_tiers_rankings/

Tier 1:

T1. Aaron Rodgers
T1. Tom Brady
3. Drew Brees
4. Ben Roethlisberger

Tier 2:

5. Matt Ryan
6. Russell Wilson
7. Matthew Stafford
8. Philip Rivers
9. Carson Wentz
10. Andrew Luck
11. Cam Newton
12. Derek Carr
13. Jimmy Garoppolo
14. Deshaun Watson

Tier 3:

T15. Kirk Cousins
T15. Alex Smith
T17. Eli Manning
T17. Dak Prescott
19. Jared Goff
20. Jameis Winston
21. Marcus Mariota
22. Andy Dalton
T23. Joe Flacco
T23. Case Keenum
25. Tyrod Taylor
26. Blake Bortles
27. Ryan Tannehill
28. Sam Bradford

Tier 4:

29. Mitchell Trubisky
30. Josh McCown
31. Patrick Mahomes
32. AJ McCarron

OK, I have a list and it is just as valid as this one is...

Tier 1

1. Tom Brady - Hate the guy due to wife being a Dolphins fan but have to admit he has the stats and rings.  I think he is a system QB and would struggle anywhere else.  IF he were to leave NE and make a team like the Browns 8-8 then I would give him more props.

2.  Aaron Rodgers- mobile, accurate and able to read defense, also don't feel that he is a system QB as if he were gone, GB would struggle bad.

3.  Drew Brees - I think he is another system QB but he can throw some accurate passes.  The HC makes him a lot better though.

4. Pig- I hate this guy but he is a better passer than WE as Bengals fans give him credit for.  However he is prone to making mistakes, we just need to capitalize when he does.

Tier 2
5. Matt Ryan - One of the best deep ball passers in the league, granted Julio Jones is a factor as to why that is.

6.  Alex Smith - This guy is just plain disrespected.  He lead the 49ners to the NFCCG and had them cruising when he got hurt, then was replaced by the crybaby and was let go.  Goes to KC and continues his winning ways and is also overlooked by the shiny rookie that has a lot of hype to live up to.  Now he is with Jay Gruden and I think may make the SB this year.

7. Phillip Rivers - Not what he used to be, but is still the leader of the Chargers, and with a decent team could be the AFCW champ.

8. Eli Manning - Face it, you don't win 2 SBs (especially against NE) if you aren't a good QB.  1 might be a fluke, but 2?  Sure some luck helped, but again, they faced NE not once but twice and won.

9.  Andrew Dalton- Another guy that is constantly disrespected.  Plays well and it is due to the talent around him, plays bad, and it is all on him.  However he has performed well with bad teams and even with the terrible OLine had us competitive in a number of games.  Against GB if Mixon doesn't slip and he gets a 1st down, then game over and no OT.  Vs Houston, the D gave up a 40 plus run by the QB with some questionable calls by the Refs.  Pit, WJIII letting Bell run by him doesn't help our chances of winning.  So as you can see, that is 3 games that he has an L but could have also won.  Even with a terrible OLine coach.

10. Kirk Cousins - He plays like Dalton and it will be interesting to see what he does with Zimmer.  They have a team that went to the NFCCG last year.  He has also played well in Washington and the NFCCG could be a show down between him and Alex Smith.

11.  Andrew Luck - hype wise, he is a beast.  Injuries and a bad team could be what is holding him back.  He has shown flashes of greatness, but again his injuries and the players around him make him hard to analyze.

12.  Joe Flacco - I could place him lower but he is better than those who will be below him.  Ray Rice was more instrumental to the Ravens success and his contract has hurt the team.  This is a good thing as Jackson will go the same as Bridgewater and by time the Ravens know better Flacco will be gone.

13.  Matthew Stafford - Has kept the Lions competitive but nothing spectacular.  Great deep ball passer but struggles reading the field.

14.  Russell Wilson - Overrated number 1- sure he won the SB and almost 2 (ahem Beast Mode) - however a lot of his success is run around in circles and then trow up a prayer.  If that is what you want, then fine.  However that is more luck than skill.  The rules also help him succeed, but at least he IS better than Cam.

15.  SCam Newton - Another throw it up and pray guy that is losing a step, which will further expose him as Overrated number 2.  Again the rules protecting passers makes him seem better than he is, however Tebow plays just like he does and Tebow is shunned by the league. 

16. Sam Bradford - I think injuries have cause irreparable damage to his ability to play the game at a high level, he can win with the right team but not someone that can win by himself.

17.  Ryan Tannehill - Athletic but that is about it.  Not sure if it is all him or just that Miami is not providing him the support he needs scheme wise.

18. Tyrod Taylor - a guy that surprises you from time to time, but is overall predictable.

Tier 3

19. Carson Wentz - played well as a rookie, played well before his injury, so he has the potential to shoot up the list.  However the team did win the SB with Nick Foles so the system and team as a whole could be a factor to his early success.  However if he keeps it up he will be ranked higher.

20.  Blake Bortles - I don't really get the hate that this guy receives.  Sure he is more of a running QB, but he has won games and even took them over.  He could improve his ranking if he improves as a passer but he does need to have guys to throw the ball to.

21.  Derek Carr- Has played well in limited time, could move up if he sustains his success.  Comments from him OLine may be the reason for his decline.

22. Marcus Mariota - young guy that could move up but needs to work on reading the field. 

23.  Jared Goff - Could be Jeff Fisher as to why he sat his rookie year, but showed that he isn't terrible in year 2.  Time will tell.

24.  Jameis Winston - at this point he hasn't wowed me.  Sure he is hyped, but I don't see him as anything but a mouth that hasn't produced.

25.  Josh McCown - honestly he should just give it up.  The only reason he is here though and not lower is because he has played in more games and when he is on he can win.

26.  Case Keenum- That play last year was magical, but face it the game came down to luck.  Zimmer should have ran the ball the previous possession and took the time off the clock as well as the T.O. then kicked the FG for the lead and more than likely win.  I will say that if Keenum is given a chance again and goes to the Post Season then he should be moved up this list.

27.  Dak Prescott - I call him Overrated number 3.  Great OLine and Elliot as his RB has lead to his rookie season success.  Year 2 when DCs figured out how to get to Elliot, Dak struggled.  Now his OLine coach is Piano Man and we shall see what that does to his play.


Tier 4

28.  Mitchell Trubisky - as a rookie he played well, if he improves can move up my rankings. Time will tell.

29.  AJ McCarron- Nothing special, he will get a shot to lose the starting job in Buffalo.  Came close to winning a Playoff game, however I think Dalton would have won the game.  Not a lot to go on though.

30.  Jimmy Garappolo - Look this guy did win some games, but he has such a small sample size to show that you can't rank him higher.  As of now he is Overrated number 5 as the love fest for him isn't warranted yet.  Could he be great?  Yes, but based off of his playing time the answer is no.

31.  DeShaun Watson - Overrated number 4.  Again his time is so small that it is silly to rank him as high as the "experts" did.  Now you can rank him higher but only in the mid-20s and even then it is a stretch.  He was also the benefit of some bad calls by the officials.

32.  Patrick Mahomes - Did he play at all last year?  I am seriously asking.  No playing time means nothing to look at.  Sure he has hype and that is all good, but we need more than hype to place you so he has to be at the bottom for now.  Think he is better than some of the guys ahead of him all you want, but he has to play to earn his place not be handed it.

(07-25-2018, 05:39 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Rodgers is good he throws pretty passes generally to the right team.    But lets not act like the patriots have an all-star lineup year in year out.

No, but they have the GOAT for their HC. He has been just as vital to their success as Brady has.

(07-25-2018, 06:09 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: OK, I have a list and it is just as valid as this one is...

Tier 1

1. Tom Brady - Hate the guy due to wife being a Dolphins fan but have to admit he has the stats and rings.  I think he is a system QB and would struggle anywhere else.  IF he were to leave NE and make a team like the Browns 8-8 then I would give him more props.

2.  Aaron Rodgers- mobile, accurate and able to read defense, also don't feel that he is a system QB as if he were gone, GB would struggle bad.

3.  Drew Brees - I think he is another system QB but he can throw some accurate passes.  The HC makes him a lot better though.

4. Pig- I hate this guy but he is a better passer than WE as Bengals fans give him credit for.  However he is prone to making mistakes, we just need to capitalize when he does.

Tier 2
5. Matt Ryan - One of the best deep ball passers in the league, granted Julio Jones is a factor as to why that is.

6.  Alex Smith - This guy is just plain disrespected.  He lead the 49ners to the NFCCG and had them cruising when he got hurt, then was replaced by the crybaby and was let go.  Goes to KC and continues his winning ways and is also overlooked by the shiny rookie that has a lot of hype to live up to.  Now he is with Jay Gruden and I think may make the SB this year.

7. Phillip Rivers - Not what he used to be, but is still the leader of the Chargers, and with a decent team could be the AFCW champ.

8. Eli Manning - Face it, you don't win 2 SBs (especially against NE) if you aren't a good QB.  1 might be a fluke, but 2?  Sure some luck helped, but again, they faced NE not once but twice and won.

9.  Andrew Dalton- Another guy that is constantly disrespected.  Plays well and it is due to the talent around him, plays bad, and it is all on him.  However he has performed well with bad teams and even with the terrible OLine had us competitive in a number of games.  Against GB if Mixon doesn't slip and he gets a 1st down, then game over and no OT.  Vs Houston, the D gave up a 40 plus run by the QB with some questionable calls by the Refs.  Pit, WJIII letting Bell run by him doesn't help our chances of winning.  So as you can see, that is 3 games that he has an L but could have also won.  Even with a terrible OLine coach.

10. Kirk Cousins - He plays like Dalton and it will be interesting to see what he does with Zimmer.  They have a team that went to the NFCCG last year.  He has also played well in Washington and the NFCCG could be a show down between him and Alex Smith.

11.  Andrew Luck - hype wise, he is a beast.  Injuries and a bad team could be what is holding him back.  He has shown flashes of greatness, but again his injuries and the players around him make him hard to analyze.

12.  Joe Flacco - I could place him lower but he is better than those who will be below him.  Ray Rice was more instrumental to the Ravens success and his contract has hurt the team.  This is a good thing as Jackson will go the same as Bridgewater and by time the Ravens know better Flacco will be gone.

13.  Matthew Stafford - Has kept the Lions competitive but nothing spectacular.  Great deep ball passer but struggles reading the field.

14.  Russell Wilson - Overrated number 1- sure he won the SB and almost 2 (ahem Beast Mode) - however a lot of his success is run around in circles and then trow up a prayer.  If that is what you want, then fine.  However that is more luck than skill.  The rules also help him succeed, but at least he IS better than Cam.

15.  SCam Newton - Another throw it up and pray guy that is losing a step, which will further expose him as Overrated number 2.  Again the rules protecting passers makes him seem better than he is, however Tebow plays just like he does and Tebow is shunned by the league. 

16. Sam Bradford - I think injuries have cause irreparable damage to his ability to play the game at a high level, he can win with the right team but not someone that can win by himself.

17.  Ryan Tannehill - Athletic but that is about it.  Not sure if it is all him or just that Miami is not providing him the support he needs scheme wise.

18. Tyrod Taylor - a guy that surprises you from time to time, but is overall predictable.

Tier 3

19. Carson Wentz - played well as a rookie, played well before his injury, so he has the potential to shoot up the list.  However the team did win the SB with Nick Foles so the system and team as a whole could be a factor to his early success.  However if he keeps it up he will be ranked higher.

20.  Blake Bortles - I don't really get the hate that this guy receives.  Sure he is more of a running QB, but he has won games and even took them over.  He could improve his ranking if he improves as a passer but he does need to have guys to throw the ball to.

21.  Derek Carr- Has played well in limited time, could move up if he sustains his success.  Comments from him OLine may be the reason for his decline.

22. Marcus Mariota - young guy that could move up but needs to work on reading the field. 

23.  Jared Goff - Could be Jeff Fisher as to why he sat his rookie year, but showed that he isn't terrible in year 2.  Time will tell.

24.  Jameis Winston - at this point he hasn't wowed me.  Sure he is hyped, but I don't see him as anything but a mouth that hasn't produced.

25.  Josh McCown - honestly he should just give it up.  The only reason he is here though and not lower is because he has played in more games and when he is on he can win.

26.  Case Keenum- That play last year was magical, but face it the game came down to luck.  Zimmer should have ran the ball the previous possession and took the time off the clock as well as the T.O. then kicked the FG for the lead and more than likely win.  I will say that if Keenum is given a chance again and goes to the Post Season then he should be moved up this list.

27.  Dak Prescott - I call him Overrated number 3.  Great OLine and Elliot as his RB has lead to his rookie season success.  Year 2 when DCs figured out how to get to Elliot, Dak struggled.  Now his OLine coach is Piano Man and we shall see what that does to his play.


Tier 4

28.  Mitchell Trubisky - as a rookie he played well, if he improves can move up my rankings. Time will tell.

29.  AJ McCarron- Nothing special, he will get a shot to lose the starting job in Buffalo.  Came close to winning a Playoff game, however I think Dalton would have won the game.  Not a lot to go on though.

30.  Jimmy Garappolo - Look this guy did win some games, but he has such a small sample size to show that you can't rank him higher.  As of now he is Overrated number 5 as the love fest for him isn't warranted yet.  Could he be great?  Yes, but based off of his playing time the answer is no.

31.  DeShaun Watson - Overrated number 4.  Again his time is so small that it is silly to rank him as high as the "experts" did.  Now you can rank him higher but only in the mid-20s and even then it is a stretch.  He was also the benefit of some bad calls by the officials.

32.  Patrick Mahomes - Did he play at all last year?  I am seriously asking.  No playing time means nothing to look at.  Sure he has hype and that is all good, but we need more than hype to place you so he has to be at the bottom for now.  Think he is better than some of the guys ahead of him all you want, but he has to play to earn his place not be handed it.

Manning WAY TOO HIGH.  Look at his career stats!  He benefited from a stellar defense and breaks.

(07-25-2018, 06:04 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Oh PLEASE!!!!  You can't go by rings. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson each have a ring.  Were they the QB Rodgers is?

Since Rodgers didn't start playing full time until 2008, here are the stats both for Manning and Rodgers from 2008 to present.

Manning

Total TDs - 262

Total Ints - 164

QBR - 83.5

Rodgers

Total TDs - 313

Total Ints - 78

QBR - 103.8

Apparently you didn’t realize THAT WAS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!

(07-25-2018, 06:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Apparently you didn’t realize THAT WAS EXACTLY MY POINT!!!

Apologies your way from me NC.  I read through the posts too fast and it was actually Big Papa that thought Rodgers was OR.

I think Eli Manning is one of the most overrated QBs around.

Lol at some of the guys I just saw put ahead of Wilson. Joe Flacco?!?!?! HAHAHAHA

(07-25-2018, 06:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Lol at some of the guys I just saw put ahead of Wilson. Joe Flacco?!?!?! HAHAHAHA

There's another QB who benefited from a stellar defense.

Part of what makes Pig Pen as successful as he is, is his elusiveness, partly do to his size.

(07-25-2018, 06:09 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: OK, I have a list and it is just as valid as this one is...

I can't see the future, but I'd be nothing short of amazed if Ryan Tannehill and Sam Bradford have a better year than Wentz, Carr, Mariota, Goff, Prescott, Trubisky, Garopolololo, Watson, AND Mahommes.  I'm thinking you might be a bit too biased towards veterans based upon your list.  I realize a lot of those guys on the bottom haven't logged as many games as other QBs, but part of making a list like this is to look forward and predict.

The fact that you have Josh McCown, a QB who should "just give it up" by your words ranked above most of those guys is a bit of a head-scratcher.

(07-25-2018, 06:38 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: There's another QB who benefited from a stellar defense.

Part of what makes Pig Pen as successful as he is, is his elusiveness, partly do to his size.

Flacco had an amazing run the year they won the SB, but he’s been largely terrible since. He belongs in the last tier at this point.

(07-25-2018, 07:03 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I can't see the future, but I'd be nothing short of amazed if Ryan Tannehill and Sam Bradford have a better year than Wentz, Carr, Mariota, Goff, Prescott, Trubisky, Garopolololo, Watson, AND Mahommes.  I'm thinking you might be a bit too biased towards veterans based upon your list.  I realize a lot of those guys on the bottom haven't logged as many games as other QBs, but part of making a list like this is to look forward and predict.

The fact that you have Josh McCown, a QB who should "just give it up" by your words ranked above most of those guys is a bit of a head-scratcher.

The point is that my list is just as valid as the one posted.  Your opinion is just as valid as mine so no real argument.

WTS.

Yes I am biased toward veterans.  They have ACTUALLY did something.  You want to look at the future fine, but I am not sold until Wentz, Carr, Mariota and the rest have done more.  Especially Jimmy G, Watson and Mahomes.  You can't say Mahomes is better than McCown when he has thrown a meaningful pass in the NFL.  For all we know Mahomes could throw 20 INTs to 10 TDs his entire career. 

On paper and potential won't amount to anything until it is actually witnessed in games.  Not just college games either.  As many great college players have had mediocre pro careers.  Some are bad systems, others are bad players.

(07-25-2018, 06:17 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Manning WAY TOO HIGH.  Look at his career stats!  He benefited from a stellar defense and breaks.

Your opinion is duly noted and is just as valid as my list is.

Let me ask you though, would you take winning 1 or 2 SBs with a QB that has Manning stats or would you rather have Marino or Rivers' stats and no SB?

Now Manning didn't just win 2 SBs due to defense and "breaks", he did it against the NE Patriots led by Belicheck and Brady who have only lost 3 of the 8 SBs they have been in.  I would also argue that his 1st SB win was even more spectacular since they as a WC team went on the road to beat the NFC and then the 18-0 NE Patriots that you know wanted that perfect season more than anything.

I have never seen any other QB do that.  Let alone any on this list.

(07-25-2018, 06:09 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: OK, I have a list and it is just as valid as this one is...

I suppose if anybody considers the singular opinion of YsCacadia to be on par with that of a average of 10 general managers, five head coaches, 10 coordinators, 10 senior personnel executives, five QB coaches and 10 others with job titles ranging from assistant coach to salary-cap manager to analytics director; then you have a point.


Outside of that your list has less validity.