(09-08-2015, 01:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: You know, I agree completely.

The question is, how long should we be willing to wait? 5 years (this year)? Is one more year after this enough? How about 10 years? Or 15?

Where should we draw the line?

On the bright side, at least he's not RGIII. :)

Anyone who looks inside the numbers of Dalton's career sees a slow steady progression until 2014. He actually started very well in 2014 even with injuries striking early and often. So, I do want to see hopefully a relatively injury free year like the Steelers offense had in 2014 to see if he progresses or stays the same or gets worse.

I get fans don't trust playoff game AD, I don't get they don't trust regular season AD. He has beaten every top QB he has played (team) so he can win big games against good/great games so I don't buy he can't play under the bright lights (beat Manning just last year on Monday night), I think our playoff woes have been a combo of poor play by a lot of guys including AD, AJ and Geno over the years.

(09-08-2015, 01:46 PM)BengalChris Wrote: So basically, the whole team has to tank before it's time.

What happened to winning a SB?

Certainly not too many teams with rookie QBs win SBs.  I'm saying when it is obvious that Dalton is the reason this team is losing games is when I would cut him loose.  QBs who lead their teams to the playoffs every year don't grow on trees.  

(09-08-2015, 01:43 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: I would draw the line on the sort of season we had the year prior to him being drafted.  

That's the problem with alot of Bengals fans. They have the 90s still stuck in their heads. They're so afraid of going back to that, they would rather be average or a little above average instead of making the necessary moves to win a championship. Sure, it might not work but what we have going now has proven it doesn't work.

(09-08-2015, 01:47 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Anyone who looks inside the numbers of Dalton's career sees a slow steady progression until 2015. He actually started very well in 2015 even with injuries striking early and often. So, I do want to see hopefully a relatively injury free year like the Steelers offense had in 2014 to see if he progresses or stays the same or gets worse.

I get fans don't trust playoff game AD, I don't get they don't trust regular season AD. He has beaten every top QB he has played (team) so he can win big games against good/great games so I don't buy he can't play under the bright lights (beat Manning just last year on Monday night), I think our playoff woes have been a combo of poor play by a lot of guys including AD, AJ and Geno over the years.

I don't trust playoff Andy, but then again I don't trust the entire team in primetime.  It is always an entire team letdown.  From top to bottom.  

Melts...really? sure he has the same issues most QB do when constantly pressured nd having his skill players fail to make plays, but melts... Nope. Blame the team as a whole.

(09-08-2015, 01:46 PM)BengalChris Wrote: So basically, the whole team has to tank before it's time.

What happened to winning a SB?

You do know the Super Bowl winners have included many guys other teams gave up on too soon.

Brad Johnson
Steve Young
Brett Favre
Doug Williams

These are off the top of my head

(09-08-2015, 01:48 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: That's the problem with alot of Bengals fans. They have the 90s still stuck in their heads. They're so afraid of going back to that, they would rather be average or a little above average instead of making the necessary moves to win a championship. Sure, it might not work but what we have going now has proven it doesn't work.

Yes, I sort of like having a relevant playoff team every year.  Sue me.  

If I thought Dalton wasn't capable of overcoming his start to his playoff career, I'd want him gone to.  However, there isn't any good reason to think he can't.  If that spell came at any other point in time other than his first 4 seasons, I'd probably feel the same way you feel about it.  

(09-08-2015, 01:43 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Of course he put up better numbers because he was the Ravens only target. Torrey Smith played terrible most of the year aka the reason they let him walk. Sanu, Jones and Hawkins are better wrs than the Panthers had besides Smith. Not even close. Kelvin Benjamin had a decent campaign but he was a rookie and not polished at all. We have one of the deepest WR groups in the NFL. I get it, he didnt have wrs in the playoffs but he has had a pretty damn good group of wrs at his disposal since he's been here. Enough with the excuses. I dont wanna see Dalton fail. I hope to God he lights it up this season and wins us a Super Bowl but Im a realist and history says hes a slightly above avg regular season qb and a terrible big game qb. His ceiling is limited and his floor is uber low. Im not a genius but that doesnt equate a super bowl. If it does then I will gladly come here and eat my crow....but if history serves right we will be having this same convo next year.

Lafell, and Olsen have been a better receivers than Sanu, Jones, or Hawkins. Try again.

(09-08-2015, 11:35 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Sure, Chip is a gimmick coach who took the Eagles and their unimpressive roster to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Nick Foles has a better season in 2013 than Dalton could ever dream of and Chip still traded him away, because you are in this to win super bowls, not playoff appearances. Dalton clearly isn't the guy to take us to the promised land and if you think otherwise, I honestly dont know what games you have been watching. Is Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc Super Bowl winning QBs because they have 1 good game every couple games? No its because they are consistent. You guys can keep hoping and praying that Dalton will have one of his 2 game stretches where he plays well, and hope the stars align and he has one of em come playoff time where the pressure is on and he clearly hasnt played well under pressure, but me, Id much rather have a QB who doesnt put up a 120 qb rating one week and then throw out 2 50 qb ratings game. Like I said, Dalton is who he is. Its time to move on.

The Eagles were in the playoffs last year?   Last I heard it was qualify for the playoffs before the Super Bowl.

But you're right Dalton has been inconsistent, and so to have the Bengals, especially in the playoffs.  All things considered I thought Dalton played fairly well against Indy.  When you throw out Sunu and Tate as your top 2 receivers, and Rex Burkhead as your #3, it's generally not going to work out in a playoff game - unless you hold the other guys to zero and then you have a chance.  But far be it for the Bengals D to show up in the playoffs either.

Look, I'm not a big Dalton supporter but he (like most other QB's not named Brady or Rodgers) needs some help along the way.

(09-08-2015, 01:51 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Yes, I sort of like having a relevant playoff team every year.  Sue me.  

If I thought Dalton wasn't capable of overcoming his start to his playoff career, I'd want him gone to.  However, there isn't any good reason to think he can't.  If that spell came at any other point in time other than his first 4 seasons, I'd probably feel the same way you feel about it.  

I could care less who takes us to the Super Bowl.

In 2015, our best chance is Dalton in my humble opinion

If it is AJ in 2016, I will support him. I have no skin in their individual success. I get sick of people using the 90's argument as it is not relevant. I want the Bengals to try and win it all every year, I saw rebuilding for 15  to 20 years, that was enough for my lifetime. Again, who gives us the shot to win a Super Bowl in 2015? I think it is AD and not even close right now.

(09-08-2015, 01:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I could care less who takes us to the Super Bowl.

In 2015, our best chance is Dalton in my humble opinion

If it is AJ in 2016, I will support him. I have no skin in their individual success. I get sick of people using the 90's argument as it is not relevant. I want the Bengals to try and win it all every year, I saw rebuilding for 15  to 20 years, that was enough for my lifetime. Again, who gives us the shot to win a Super Bowl in 2015? I think it is AD and not even close right now.

Exactly.  As far as I'm concerned a new QB is akin to rebuilding.  I don't think this team is in rebuild mode just yet.  The year they miss the playoffs is the year I'd reconsider if it is obviously the fault of the QB that we fell off.  

(09-08-2015, 01:48 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Certainly not too many teams with rookie QBs win SBs.  I'm saying when it is obvious that Dalton is the reason this team is losing games is when I would cut him loose.  QBs who lead their teams to the playoffs every year don't grow on trees.  

Good point. Trying to grade Dalton is kind of like grading Marvin Lewis.

Marvin has improved the team without a doubt. But he never seems to have the team prepared come playoff time. They just look bad on both offense and defense.

Dalton has had some really nice games, and we have been to the playoffs 4 straight years. But he ends up looking so lost in those playoff games.

(09-08-2015, 11:47 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Lmao you guys have the nerve to talk about no weapons for Dalton but then say he has outperformed Cam. Cam is head & shoulders above Dalton and literally has had barely any weapons around him. Has won in the playoffs and can single handedly put a team on his shoulders and win. You guys should know, he single handedly was the reason they tied us last year. I would put everything I own that not one GM would take Dalton over Cam. Some of you Dalton homers amaze me.

Cam tied the Bengals last year because our D sucked that game.  If I remember correctly Dalton hung 37 on the Carolina D also.

(09-08-2015, 02:00 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Cam tied the Bengals last year because our D sucked that game.  If I remember correctly Dalton hung 37 on the Carolina D also.

we would have won too if we didn't miss that 36 yard FG. What sucks is that extra points are going to be 35 yards this season... We didn't have Green that game either.

(09-08-2015, 01:52 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Lafell, and Olsen have been a better receivers than Sanu, Jones, or Hawkins. Try again.

Kelvin Benjamin is a heck of a receiver also.

(09-08-2015, 01:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I could care less who takes us to the Super Bowl.

In 2015, our best chance is Dalton in my humble opinion

If it is AJ in 2016, I will support him. I have no skin in their individual success. I get sick of people using the 90's argument as it is not relevant. I want the Bengals to try and win it all every year, I saw rebuilding for 15  to 20 years, that was enough for my lifetime. Again, who gives us the shot to win a Super Bowl in 2015? I think it is AD and not even close right now.

Completely agree.

Though, teams can switch QBs without rebuilding the team. We replace some parts almost every year. QB is no different really. And Dalton is good enough that we can develop another QB without throwing them into the fire as a rookie.

(09-08-2015, 02:06 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Completely agree.

Though, teams can switch QBs without rebuilding the team. We replace some parts almost every year. QB is no different really. And Dalton is good enough that we can develop another QB without throwing them into the fire as a rookie.

 I love we have AJ as our back up versus Campbell or J. Johnson because he has more upside. I do think he may go on to be a very good NFL QB, I just want him to watch and learn in 2015 hopefully.

Who know what happens in 2016? We know the AD contract is very team friendly so he needs to perform or else.

(09-08-2015, 01:40 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Bernard missed 3 games
Hill wasn't the starter until week 9
Gresham missed 2 games
Green missed almost half of the year not 1/4th of it

How is my statement false.

I don't care who the starter was.  There are two competent backs here, and combined, they missed three whole games.

Your statement is false in saying that Green missed "Almost half of the year".  He played in 13 of the 16 games, and left early in two of them.  This is not "almost half".

The playoff game?  I can get behind people saying that this team was handicapped talent-wise.  The entire year?  No.  Green, Sanu, Gresham, Bernard, and Hill are better than what most teams have.

(09-08-2015, 02:21 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I don't care who the starter was.  There are two competent backs here, and combined, they missed three whole games.

Your statement is false in saying that Green missed "Almost half of the year".  He played in 13 of the 16 games, and left early in two of them.  This is not "almost half".

The playoff game?  I can get behind people saying that this team was handicapped talent-wise.  The entire year?  No.  Green, Sanu, Gresham, Bernard, and Hill are better than what most teams have.

Green didn't catch a pass in 6 games. not one pass. It's not like he "left early". Sanu isn't a good #2 and a joke at #1. Gresham at very best is a league average TE. Personally I would say he's below average, because of his turnovers, penalties, and dropped passes (like in the NE game where he dropped a ball that hit him in the chest in the endzone). Hill is a very good RB, but Bernard is average.

I could name a lot of teams that had better weapons than that last year. We were in the bottom half of the league weapons wise.

(09-08-2015, 02:24 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Green didn't catch a pass in 6 games. not one pass. It's not like he "left early". Sanu isn't a good #2 and a joke at #1. Gresham at very best is a league average TE. Personally I would say he's below average, because of his turnovers penalties, and dropped passes (like in the NE game where he dropped a ball that hit him in the chest in the endzone). Hill is a very good RB, but Bernard is average.

I could name a lot of teams that had better weapons than that last year. We were in the bottom half of the league weapons wise.

People over-rate our players.  Granted they are decent, most of them are role players outside of Green.  The players that could be special (Jones, Eifert, Hill) haven't played a lot due to injury or simply not getting snaps.