(08-18-2018, 11:32 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Sorry to inform fans of Jon Brown.  According to Marvin Lewis:
"There is not kicking competition"

yeah brown already won lol

(08-21-2018, 10:25 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: yeah brown already won lol

This is what the eye test says.  To Marvin--I see better than I hear.

(08-21-2018, 07:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That "potential" also kicked a 60 yarder to win their week 1 game.  

He was our 5th round pick, Fat Randy a journeyman with a lot of ups and downs.  I argued last year we should have kept Elliott, immediately after they went with Fat Randy, because of the contract and the upside/potential.  

We know what Randy is.  Jon Brown could be an amazing talent in the NFL.  

Admittedly i have not been able to see the Kick, just hearing from you guys it was amazing.

Like i said, we need competition, it breeds excellence. May the best man win, there is no question about talent.

I just hope we are kicking a lot more Extra Points this year than FG's.

(08-21-2018, 10:13 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Do we know Bullock will give us close to 90%? His entire career prior to last year he had a career FG% of 81.3%.

Right now it's far more believable that last year was the outlier, not the previous 5 years.

Good point.

(08-21-2018, 08:01 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Well don't look past the fact he kicked that  55 yarder twice, and missed it the 1st time..... I'm not knocking Brown, I hope he turns into something special... but basically it comes down to do you want someone you know is going to give you a close to 90%, or an unknown that can maybe make longer kicks.....

Yeah, that isn't fair though as he heard the whistles during the play, etc.  And it is more than just the 55 yarder, it is the fact that would have been good from 65 yards!  EVERY KICKOFF A TOUCHBACK.  Can you imagine barely getting across midfield and potentially being in FG range?  How many shots like that could we have right before a half?  And if not, he is a much better athlete than Fat Randy.  Also, he would cost about 1/10th of Fat Randy's salary.  Which could go to resigning Geno and Dunlap.

(08-21-2018, 12:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Yeah, that isn't fair though as he heard the whistles during the play, etc.  And it is more than just the 55 yarder, it is the fact that would have been good from 65 yards!  EVERY KICKOFF A TOUCHBACK.  Can you imagine barely getting across midfield and potentially being in FG range?  How many shots like that could we have right before a half?  And if not, he is a much better athlete than Fat Randy.  Also, he would cost about 1/10th of Fat Randy's salary.  Which could go to resigning Geno and Dunlap.

Don't get me wrong, that will all be great if he pans out. It's just a big if to gamble on.... as for the touchbacks, I stick to my stance on that, that Marvin does not want to give most teams without elite returners the 25, instead having our ST's stop them inside the 20.....

All I care about is that "Fat" Randy has hit 88.5% of his FG's and 94.9% of his XP's as a Bengal.

I suppose many will never be happy with the guy for various reasons (he's not slim and good looking, he wasn't good in Houston, he's not Elliott, etc), but as long as he keeps plugging away, I'm a fan.

Marv has always been conservative with taking long FG's vs field position, so I'm not sure why people think a big-legged kicker would be some HUGE weapon. All this hand-wringing, and Elliott only hit 4 more FG's over 50 yards than Bullock. 16 more points. In an offense that was FAR more prolific than ours and obviously presented more FG opportunities overall. 

If you liked Elliott more, fine...but at least be fair and acknowledge those realities.

As for Brown, it seems people get caught up in big legs the same way they do with big-arm QB's. Leg don't mean squat without accuracy. I'll take the steady Eddie over the guy who kicks a pretty ball, but is scattershot on XP's. That guy is more likely to hurt us than to be an asset. If the coaches feel Brown beat out Bullock though, I'll roll with that and hope for the best.

(08-21-2018, 12:46 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Don't get me wrong, that will all be great if he pans out. It's just a big if to gamble on.... as for the touchbacks, I stick to my stance on that, that Marvin does not want to give most teams without elite returners the 25, instead having our ST's stop them inside the 20.....

I would rather give up the 5 yards and avoid the injuries that always seem to stem from special teams.  But, I realize that is not a popular opinion.  I just feel like if you have a weapon that denies ANY chance to return the kick, you use it.  

(08-21-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I care about is that "Fat" Randy has hit 88.5% of his FG's and 94.9% of his XP's as a Bengal.

I suppose many will never be happy with the guy for various reasons (he's not slim and good looking, he wasn't good in Houston, he's not Elliott, etc), but as long as he keeps plugging away, I'm a fan.

Marv has always been conservative with taking long FG's vs field position, so I'm not sure why people think a big-legged kicker would be some HUGE weapon. All this hand-wringing, and Elliott only hit 4 more FG's over 50 yards than Bullock. 16 more points. In an offense that was FAR more prolific than ours and obviously presented more FG opportunities overall. 

If you liked Elliott more, fine...but at least be fair and acknowledge those realities.

As for Brown, it seems people get caught up in big legs the same way they do with big-arm QB's. Leg don't mean squat without accuracy. I'll take the steady Eddie over the guy who kicks a pretty ball, but is scattershot on XP's. That guy is more likely to hurt us than to be an asset. If the coaches feel Brown beat out Bullock though, I'll roll with that and hope for the best.

What XP's has Brown missed?

Face it, Marvin is looking for a permanent kicker and not a stopgap, ala Randy.  He drafted one last year and this Brown endeavor is now into its second year.  My advice to the round one--rent, don't buy.  And, for God sake, man, you are a professional athlete, surrounded by physical specimens, you work in a building loaded with state of the art workout equipment.  Show a little pride and lose the gut.  It's disgusting.

(08-21-2018, 07:38 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: That "potential" also kicked a 60 yarder to win their week 1 game.  

He was our 5th round pick, Fat Randy a journeyman with a lot of ups and downs.  I argued last year we should have kept Elliott, immediately after they went with Fat Randy, because of the contract and the upside/potential.  

We know what Randy is.  Jon Brown could be an amazing talent in the NFL.  

First, five years in the league is not a journeyman lets be honest as a kicker.  Elliott failed in OPEN COMPETITION, so lets be honest as I coach, if i said this is open competition, i don;t care about draft pick, what potential you might guess they have.. out kicker the other guy, show me you can stand up to the pressure and you got the job.. well guess what,, Elliot did really bad.. I was at various practices and he did not kick well, he did not perform well in preseason.. sorry he failed the test and lets be honest Bullock succeeded last year.. how many people on here said he will suck.. he did not.. and actually Bullock has been getting better of the last three years.. Maybe it took him a couple years but since 2015 he is 45 out of 52 in FG.. for a avg of 86.5 which is above the NFL avg. over that span and had his best year last year.... Who Dey 

(08-21-2018, 10:13 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Do we know Bullock will give us close to 90%? His entire career prior to last year he had a career FG% of 81.3%.

Right now it's far more believable that last year was the outlier, not the previous 5 years.

actually the outlier looks like his first season for sure middle 70% or first two seasons.. lets look at the last three years

each year his average has went up. over all 45 out of 52 for 86.5 (above league avg in those years} over that three year span with again each year getting higher best year was last year 90 percent.. so what you are saying is cut a kicker who in just his 6th year just had his best year, i will pass, not worth rolling the dice especially in a year where we don;t need experiments planning for the future etc.. The risk is not worth the possible reward not this year.... I wish Brown all the best and I totally agree with the Organization thinking on this one... We got way bigger issues to worry about than kicker.. for sure.. 

(08-21-2018, 08:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, five years in the league is not a journeyman lets be honest as a kicker.  Elliott failed in OPEN COMPETITION, so lets be honest as I coach, if i said this is open competition, i don;t care about draft pick, what potential you might guess they have.. out kicker the other guy, show me you can stand up to the pressure and you got the job.. well guess what,, Elliot did really bad.. I was at various practices and he did not kick well, he did not perform well in preseason.. sorry he failed the test and lets be honest Bullock succeeded last year.. how many people on here said he will suck.. he did not.. and actually Bullock has been getting better of the last three years.. Maybe it took him a couple years but since 2015 he is 45 out of 52 in FG.. for a avg of 86.5 which is above the NFL avg. over that span and had his best year last year.... Who Dey 

The mistake they made last year was even bringing Bullock back and having the competition at all.  Last year would have been the perfect year to get him through his growing pains.

(08-21-2018, 08:51 PM)McC Wrote: The mistake they made last year was even bringing Bullock back and having the competition at all.  Last year would have been the perfect year to get him through his growing pains.

So you are saying that when we draft players it is wrong to actually have competition against them, makes no sense

(08-21-2018, 10:45 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So you are saying that when we draft players it is wrong to actually have competition against them, makes no sense

Sometimes it is wrong.  Like in this case, for instance.  They put the wrong kind of pressure on him.  Making a crucial kick is a different kind of   pressure than will I have this job or not kind of pressure.  If you're gonna keep the journeyman around, don't draft the guy.  If you're gonna draft a guy, don't waste your time with the journeyman.  All the kicks the round guy got were kicks the rookie could have used.  It's not like they didn't know the season would not be a good one.  Hell, we all knew it.  Perfect season to break in a new kicker.

Could mean that they may keep two kickers (one for kickoffs and one for FG). I've seen a few teams do that, but usually it's short-lived.

(08-22-2018, 12:23 AM)EatonFan Wrote: Could mean that they may keep two kickers (one for kickoffs and one for FG).  I've seen a few teams do that, but usually it's short-lived.

I think the 53 man roster will already be tight to keep two kickers

More than likely, Marvin is letting Brown get a lot of film out there so someone will claim him after cut day.

(08-21-2018, 04:07 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: All I care about is that "Fat" Randy has hit 88.5% of his FG's and 94.9% of his XP's as a Bengal.

I suppose many will never be happy with the guy for various reasons (he's not slim and good looking, he wasn't good in Houston, he's not Elliott, etc), but as long as he keeps plugging away, I'm a fan.

Marv has always been conservative with taking long FG's vs field position, so I'm not sure why people think a big-legged kicker would be some HUGE weapon. All this hand-wringing, and Elliott only hit 4 more FG's over 50 yards than Bullock. 16 more points. In an offense that was FAR more prolific than ours and obviously presented more FG opportunities overall. 

If you liked Elliott more, fine...but at least be fair and acknowledge those realities.

As for Brown, it seems people get caught up in big legs the same way they do with big-arm QB's. Leg don't mean squat without accuracy. I'll take the steady Eddie over the guy who kicks a pretty ball, but is scattershot on XP's. That guy is more likely to hurt us than to be an asset. If the coaches feel Brown beat out Bullock though, I'll roll with that and hope for the best.

Good points, all, Shake.  But I thought I remembered Duke Tobin talking about trying to find the next Justin Tucker.  There was a game where he was making 50-plus yard FGs against us (three, I think) and the Bengals couldn't counter with Nug.  That was only one game, but he was the reason the Ravens won.

I get it...he isn't proven, and distance without accuracy is like my golf drive. But the flight of his ball, and the ease at which he absolutely lauches the thing....Well, I have not seen it before.  

The Raiders used is 1st round pick on a scumbag of a human being in Janikowski because of his leg strength.  The Jets used their first pick (which was a 2nd rounder) on Nugent as he was making really long kicks at OSU.  

I just believe that this guy could evolve in to something special, and I would hate to see that be a team other than the one that gave him a shot. 

(08-21-2018, 08:08 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: First, five years in the league is not a journeyman lets be honest as a kicker.  Elliott failed in OPEN COMPETITION, so lets be honest as I coach, if i said this is open competition, i don;t care about draft pick, what potential you might guess they have.. out kicker the other guy, show me you can stand up to the pressure and you got the job.. well guess what,, Elliot did really bad.. I was at various practices and he did not kick well, he did not perform well in preseason.. sorry he failed the test and lets be honest Bullock succeeded last year.. how many people on here said he will suck.. he did not.. and actually Bullock has been getting better of the last three years.. Maybe it took him a couple years but since 2015 he is 45 out of 52 in FG.. for a avg of 86.5 which is above the NFL avg. over that span and had his best year last year.... Who Dey 

I think you calling Elliott "failed" and that he did "really bad" isn't a fair assessment.  It wasn't a run away and Randy wasn't perfect either.  But, to your point, Randy won the competition, although it was closer than you elude.

What if Brown is clearly better this preseason?  Why doesn't the same set of rules apply?

Marvin Lewis stated that Brown will not be kept on PS and decided that the full body of work, including practice results allows him to keep the vet Bullock...

Marvin Lewis w/ more on the K Jon Brown situation today. Pointing out it's "a body of work," insinuating he hasn't been as accurate in practice (which is true in what we've seen). Also, that Brown wouldn't be kept on the practice squad, either. But, "he did a great job."

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 22, 2018

(08-22-2018, 04:01 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis stated that Brown will not be kept on PS and decided that the full body of work, including practice results allows him to keep the vet Bullock...

Marvin Lewis w/ more on the K Jon Brown situation today. Pointing out it's "a body of work," insinuating he hasn't been as accurate in practice (which is true in what we've seen). Also, that Brown wouldn't be kept on the practice squad, either. But, "he did a great job."

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 22, 2018

That is what i thought. Jon Brown has one hell of a leg he has just not been as accurate as Fat Randy...

Sounds like the right decision, too bad we couldn't keep him around on the PS but i guess it is just more fair to Brown
to give him a shot as a starting Kicker somewhere else. There is no doubting his talent.