(08-27-2018, 01:35 PM)MentalRage Wrote: 99 times out of 100 I would agree. Keep the guy that performs better. But when you spend a fifth round pick on a kicker you gotta keep him. If they knew going into the draft they would have a kicking competition no matter what then there is zero reason to take a kicker that early when they had bigger issues (o-line/LB). 

That's just my opinion. 

Doesn't make sense. Because you draft a guy in the 5th, you have to keep him if he can't outperform those already here? Doesn't sound like a plan to me....

(08-27-2018, 01:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Funny thing about Elliott is that the draft "experts" around here were ripping the Bengals mercilessly for "wasting a pick on Elliott" when Zane Gonzales still available.

Then the same guys ripped the Bengals for releasing the guy they "wasted a pick on".

Was it the same guys? You've identified these double agents?

Sled21 Wrote:Doesn't make sense. Because you draft a guy in the 5th, you have to keep him if he can't outperform those already here? Doesn't sound like a plan to me....

Other position/situations yes I completely agree. The better guy should keep the job. I believe this is a very specific situation. Good teams don't waste a fifth round pick on a kicker just to hold a kicking competition during training camp. When you select a kicker that early you're saying, "that's my guy" and I'm willing to go through his ups and downs as a rookie because I believe in his upside. If a team has even the slightest bit of doubt about the kid then don't take him that early. 

If you think I'm wrong that's fine. We can agree to disgree :)

(08-27-2018, 05:24 PM)MentalRage Wrote: If you think I'm wrong that's fine. We can agree to disgree :)

What you think doesn't matter.  It is what really happens.

The year before the Saints won the Super Bowl in '09 they drafted Taylor Mehlhaf in the sixth round and cut him because he stunk.

Saying that good teams keep kickers no matter what is just ridiculous.

(08-27-2018, 01:27 AM)ShadyFans thinking it will be some Wrote: Heading into the final preseason game, do you see any legit roster surprises?  

The guys we expected to play well and keep or earn jobs did.

Cutting Iloka might have made it possible for us to keep Trayvon Henderson on the 53. He's our most impressive rookie DB by far IMHO. Otherwise, I don't see any surprises.

I'll just say this last meaningless preseason game won'y have much impact.  The top starters will sit this one out, but that does not mean the ones playing are making the team. In this game, you are really trying yo avoid injuries to key players, so you play the scrubs.  The coaches at this point have a pretty good idea who the team is. They get this awful last preseason game over with, make their cuts so they can have 9 days to get ready for Regular Season Game.  This preseason game isn't going to chance much. The coaches know by now who they want in season opener. Fans thinking some 3rd or 4th stringer still has a chance, it's just not happening. That team that played most of Bills game, that is our team. 

(08-27-2018, 08:30 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Was he #24, the guy getting those DPIs?  If so, I have a different opinion of his potential of making the team.  I thought he looked bad in coverage, trying to play the man's face, like in college, rather than playing the ball like a pro.

No, 24's name is Goodwin, and he got schooled.

Number 41 was making hits and taking names.

(08-27-2018, 05:38 PM)kevin Wrote: I'll just say this last meaningless preseason game won'y have much impact.  The top starters will sit this one out, but that does not mean the ones playing are making the team. In this game, you are really trying yo avoid injuries to key players, so you play the scrubs.  The coaches at this point have a pretty good idea who the team is. They get this awful last preseason game over with, make their cuts so they can have 9 days to get ready for Regular Season Game.  This preseason game isn't going to chance much. The coaches know by now who they want in season opener. Fans thinking some 3rd or 4th stringer still has a chance, it's just not happening. That team that played most of Bills game, that is our team. 

I dunno. I think there are still legitimate battles, just not for starting spots.

Some battles I could see this game being a deciding factor in:

Backup QB: Barkley has been okay, not great, when he's come in to the game. Drexel was outstanding in 1 game and forgettable in the other 2. If Drexel blows the roof off the place in this game, he could make that final push for back up QB, especially since Barkley was so bad in training camp in general.

4th RB: Tra Carson, Brian Hill and Mark Whalton are all battling for the final RB slots on the team. We typically carry 4 (granted that was mainly because of Cedric Peerman being a special teams player), so logic tells us one of them doesn't make the team. Who do you cut? Carson needs to have a big game because, right now, I think Hill has the edge on him. Both Hill and Carson have well outperformed Whalton, but he's a 4th round pick and I don't see them cutting him.

6th WR: Auden Tate looked like a lock for the roster after the first game. 2 games later, people are talking about putting him on the PS. Core, on the other hand, had a pretty good rookie year but has been invisible ever since, including in the pre-season. Do you want either of these players on your 53? Or do you go 5 WRs and add more depth at another position (possibly RB?)

10th OL: Ogbuehi vs Perkins. Do you keep Ogbuehi around simply because he was drafted high? Or do you keep Perkins over him? 

9th DL: Andrew Brown vs Josh Tupou. Or, do you cut Michael Johnson and keep both of these guys?

6th LB: Hardy Nickerson vs Brandon Bell vs Junior Joseph. Logic tells me this is Nickerson, as he plays MLB and most of our LBs are OLBs. But if Bell or Joseph impresses in this final game, that could chance. Regardless, I imagine whoever this player is, he will be cut when Burfict comes back anyway.

DBs: This one is a bit more wide open since we drafted 3 defensive backs this draft. Does McCrae finally make the roster? He played awfully well against Buffalo and has been hanging around the team for a few seasons now. He is matched up against our two rookie CBs, Darius Phillips and Davonte Harris. Neither has shown all that much and both could probably be safely stowed on the PS. But Phillips offers you high potential as a kick and punt returner if they choose to go that route.

As for safety, Wilson and Henderson are fighting for that final spot. Wilson is a draft pick who theoretically offers a lot on special teams, but Henderson has showed up in game film, albeit as part of the 3rd string vs 3rd string portion of the preseason. That said, Henderson has looked good in game, whereas I don't even recall hearing Wilson's name ever mentioned. So this could end up being Henderson's job to lose.

Not too many of these are necessarily exciting, but I do see this final game factoring in to these final 8 slots on the roster.

(08-27-2018, 09:26 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: The way things have gone this offseason, mainly good, very unBengal like and out of MB's wheel house. Another veteran cut wouldn't shock me at all.

I still feel MJ's job is very much on the line. I could be wrong ? Ogbuehi is probably safe we just don't have anybody stepping up.

Not only do I agree, but I think he's just done.  I've focused on him a lot during these preseason games, and he's basically worthless.  IMHO

(08-28-2018, 07:42 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: I dunno. I think there are still legitimate battles, just not for starting spots.

Some battles I could see this game being a deciding factor in:

Backup QB: Barkley has been okay, not great, when he's come in to the game. Drexel was outstanding in 1 game and forgettable in the other 2. If Drexel blows the roof off the place in this game, he could make that final push for back up QB, especially since Barkley was so bad in training camp in general.

4th RB: Tra Carson, Brian Hill and Mark Whalton are all battling for the final RB slots on the team. We typically carry 4 (granted that was mainly because of Cedric Peerman being a special teams player), so logic tells us one of them doesn't make the team. Who do you cut? Carson needs to have a big game because, right now, I think Hill has the edge on him. Both Hill and Carson have well outperformed Whalton, but he's a 4th round pick and I don't see them cutting him.

6th WR: Auden Tate looked like a lock for the roster after the first game. 2 games later, people are talking about putting him on the PS. Core, on the other hand, had a pretty good rookie year but has been invisible ever since, including in the pre-season. Do you want either of these players on your 53? Or do you go 5 WRs and add more depth at another position (possibly RB?)

10th OL: Ogbuehi vs Perkins. Do you keep Ogbuehi around simply because he was drafted high? Or do you keep Perkins over him? 

9th DL: Andrew Brown vs Josh Tupou. Or, do you cut Michael Johnson and keep both of these guys?

6th LB: Hardy Nickerson vs Brandon Bell vs Junior Joseph. Logic tells me this is Nickerson, as he plays MLB and most of our LBs are OLBs. But if Bell or Joseph impresses in this final game, that could chance. Regardless, I imagine whoever this player is, he will be cut when Burfict comes back anyway.

DBs: This one is a bit more wide open since we drafted 3 defensive backs this draft. Does McCrae finally make the roster? He played awfully well against Buffalo and has been hanging around the team for a few seasons now. He is matched up against our two rookie CBs, Darius Phillips and Davonte Harris. Neither has shown all that much and both could probably be safely stowed on the PS. But Phillips offers you high potential as a kick and punt returner if they choose to go that route.

As for safety, Wilson and Henderson are fighting for that final spot. Wilson is a draft pick who theoretically offers a lot on special teams, but Henderson has showed up in game film, albeit as part of the 3rd string vs 3rd string portion of the preseason. That said, Henderson has looked good in game, whereas I don't even recall hearing Wilson's name ever mentioned. So this could end up being Henderson's job to lose.

Not too many of these are necessarily exciting, but I do see this final game factoring in to these final 8 slots on the roster.

Nice post CJD. My thoughts...

Only keep two QB's, cut Barkley. Keep 4 RB's Hill and Carson the final two, i know Walton was a 4th round pick but
sometimes you have to admit you are wrong and keep the better players regardless. Keep Auden Tate, cut Core. Keep
Perkins, cut Og. Believe Brandon Bell is on IR, keep Worley is still my vote even if he has not played great this PS. He
is smart and can play multiple positions.

McRae did look good against Buffalo, he might sneak onto the roster who knows. Brandon Wilson saved a TD in the
Dallas game and has been making plays in TC and is a good ST'er, you keep this guy. Feel like the coaches like him
a lot and is one of the reasons for cutting Iloka.

(08-27-2018, 01:27 AM)Shady Wrote: Heading into the final preseason game, do you see any legit roster surprises?  

The guys we expected to play well and keep or earn jobs did.

Cutting Iloka might have made it possible for us to keep Trayvon Henderson on the 53. He's our most impressive rookie DB by far IMHO. Otherwise, I don't see any surprises.

Agree with you about Henderson.   I like that dude.

(08-27-2018, 09:32 AM)Sweetness Wrote: Because the Bengals cut him. Therefore he is otherworldly. Didnt you know 83% fg efficiency is better then 90%?!

Will Elliot go on to have a better career? It's certainly possible. But last year did nothing to prove that.

There's just something so alluring about a guy that can boot a 60 yard ball.  Has dreams of Tucker dancing in our heads.

But Elliot is just not reliable.  Just tantalizing.  And after hearing that Brown missed 4 in practice I feel less tantalized.

Bullock's been a 90% plus kicker.  Marvin knows what he's talking about.

(08-28-2018, 03:46 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Only keep two QB's, cut Barkley. Keep 4 RB's Hill and Carson the final two, i know Walton was a 4th round pick but
sometimes you have to admit you are wrong and keep the better players regardless. Keep Auden Tate, cut Core. Keep
Perkins, cut Og. Believe Brandon Bell is on IR, keep Worley is still my vote even if he has not played great this PS. He
is smart and can play multiple positions.

McRae did look good against Buffalo, he might sneak onto the roster who knows. Brandon Wilson saved a TD in the
Dallas game and has been making plays in TC and is a good ST'er, you keep this guy. Feel like the coaches like him
a lot and is one of the reasons for cutting Iloka.

Nice post Nate.

Agree about the QBs, RBs, Tate and Worley.  Going to gag on this, but I actually saw Og finishing running blocks when others were not.

Of course I also saw him being trucked right back into the QB.

You make a good point about Wilson.  But I love Henderson.

Coaches' call.  Hope they get it right!

and now that we have signed Hillary... we are complete.

(08-27-2018, 05:24 PM)MentalRage Wrote: Other position/situations yes I completely agree. The better guy should keep the job. I believe this is a very specific situation. Good teams don't waste a fifth round pick on a kicker just to hold a kicking competition during training camp. When you select a kicker that early you're saying, "that's my guy" and I'm willing to go through his ups and downs as a rookie because I believe in his upside. If a team has even the slightest bit of doubt about the kid then don't take him that early. 

If you think I'm wrong that's fine. We can agree to disgree :)

Once you get past the 4th round...  5ths are lucky to make the team... and usually wont unless a specialty position or an injury if the team has any depth.. Unless the outperform expectations and some do many end up on Practice Squads.

(08-28-2018, 06:13 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: and now that we have signed Hillary...  we are complete.

OMG...I almost choked when I read this. LOL 

(08-28-2018, 06:16 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: Once you get past the 4th round...  5ths are lucky to make the team... and usually wont unless a specialty position or an injury if the team has any depth.. Unless the outperform expectations and some do many end up on Practice Squads.

I don't know what the statistical analysis says about percentage of chance of making a team, as compared to the round drafted.  But, another poster has shown data that shows that 1st rounders are about 50/50 in terms of being successful or ending up as "busts".

(08-27-2018, 05:24 PM)MentalRage Wrote: Other position/situations yes I completely agree. The better guy should keep the job. I believe this is a very specific situation. Good teams don't waste a fifth round pick on a kicker just to hold a kicking competition during training camp. When you select a kicker that early you're saying, "that's my guy" and I'm willing to go through his ups and downs as a rookie because I believe in his upside. If a team has even the slightest bit of doubt about the kid then don't take him that early. 

If you think I'm wrong that's fine. We can agree to disgree :)

I do think you are wrong for few reasons..  1. You can't assume a kicker especially a rookie is going to get it correct after a bad camp and preseason, you also have to put time and history in the context. 
 2. The Bengals were coming in last season on a bad run with kickers, so they decided to have a open competition for once instead of drafting, signing one main kicker.  When they committed to that, they also said they will take who ever the best kicker is in the tryout regardless of draft pick etc. 
3  Finally we can play what if all we want.. for example maybe we keep Elliot because he was a draft pick though he did not kick well for us like Tampa did with 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo , who then went on to have a terrible season and was released before the next season. 

Seems like everyone thinks I'm wrong about the Elliot/Bullock situation so I can admit that I am probably wrong lol

Just because I have the secret ability to pull up the roster from Bengals.com here's the roster with players numbers .  https://www.bengals.com/team/players-roster/

It's one of my many underrated super powers..
Twas Goodwin who was getting burned repeatedly. #24  I liked what McRae #29 was doing as well as Henderson #41..
One or both may be on the PS later this week ..
I always have that page open during ps games.. Short term memory you know . 

(08-29-2018, 09:37 AM)MentalRage Wrote: Seems like everyone thinks I'm wrong about the Elliot/Bullock situation so I can admit that I am probably wrong lol

Are ya sure?  We don't want you to over commit and hurt yourself now . Lol