(09-08-2015, 04:40 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: only good that came out of that game was we found out what we had in Burkhead.

I think we also saw the potential of Dennard. God I wish he wasn't hurt early this preseason. His peanut punch was pretty much the highlight of that game for me haha.

(09-08-2015, 05:02 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I'm not arguing against the fact that the Bengals had a lot of injuries last season.  Losing Eifert and Jones is a big deal, no doubt.  I just don't think that having Green, Sanu, Gresham, Hill, and Bernard play most of the season puts you at a huge disadvantage.  That is more talent than what a good deal of teams have. 

As I've said, the playoff game is a different story, and no one should have expected them to win with Rex Burkhead as their #2 receiver, but for most of the year, they were not completely destroyed by injuries, contrary to popular belief.

The team had massive injuries with Jones and Eifert, a moderate injury to Green, and small nothings with Sanu, Gresham, Hill, and Bernard.  Good teams survive a few injuries, as the Bengals did.....but saying that this is the prime reason that Dalton struggled is silly, especially considering the healthy guys that he had in 2014 is more than he had in 2011 or 2012, when he performed better.

Hill averaged less than 8 carries a game until week 9.  Green missed 5 games.  Gio wasn't very effective as a starting RB. How is that better than what the team had in 2011 or 2012?  

(09-08-2015, 11:25 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: So they went out and got a QB that cant stay healthy....  Traded away their good running back and got the one that had over 400 carries last year( usual decline the following season)  

Daltons contract was in line with Kaepernicks...  Franchise not selling the farm and letting the player bet on themselves.

They said Chip Kelly's offense would never work in the NFL.  They were wrong.  They said he'd never make the playoffs.  They were wrong.  If you ask me, he knows exactly what he's doing and the only question is how long will it take before they start copying him.  There is absolute method to his madness.

He doesn't give two shits about the status quo.  He has a plan and the 'nads to do what it takes to implement it.

(09-08-2015, 05:02 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: I'm not arguing against the fact that the Bengals had a lot of injuries last season.  Losing Eifert and Jones is a big deal, no doubt.  I just don't think that having Green, Sanu, Gresham, Hill, and Bernard play most of the season puts you at a huge disadvantage.  That is more talent than what a good deal of teams have. 

As I've said, the playoff game is a different story, and no one should have expected them to win with Rex Burkhead as their #2 receiver, but for most of the year, they were not completely destroyed by injuries, contrary to popular belief.

The team had massive injuries with Jones and Eifert, a moderate injury to Green, and small nothings with Sanu, Gresham, Hill, and Bernard.  Good teams survive a few injuries, as the Bengals did.....but saying that this is the prime reason that Dalton struggled is silly, especially considering the healthy guys that he had in 2014 is more than he had in 2011 or 2012, when he performed better.

Sanu was very ineffective the 2nd half the seasons as well.

(09-08-2015, 05:23 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Hill averaged less than 8 carries a game until week 9.  Green missed 5 games.  Gio wasn't very effective as a starting RB. How is that better than what the team had in 2011 or 2012?  

Just because the players weren't used properly doesn't mean they're less talented.  Even still, I'll take a  misused Hill and Bernard over a properly used BenJarvus Green-Ellis + Brian Leonard or Cedric Benson + Bernard Scott.

Lafell isnt better than sanu....put sanu woth TB and look what will happen. Same with Hawkins. You put Lafell with the Brownsand the same happens. You're talking about a player going and playing with the best qb and coach of all times...and you keep comparing olsen to wrs...its irrelevant. Olsen isnt a top 5 te in the league. Hes good but he's not some god send like you are suggesting. Dalton has clearly had more talented skill players during his tenure that Cam has...simple as that. Has any of Cams #2 wrs put up 10 tds? Dalton has always had a plethora of talent and cam has always lacked weapons. Its not just me sayin it....not that i follow the national media and everythingthey say but theyve said it every year as well as its very simple to see. Cam has always lacked weapons.

(09-08-2015, 11:27 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Just because the players weren't used properly doesn't mean they're less talented.  Even still, I'll take a  misused Hill and Bernard over a properly used BenJarvus Green-Ellis + Brian Leonard or Cedric Benson + Bernard Scott.

If the talent isn't playing, what difference does having the talent make?  Up until week 8 he had 195 yards on 50 carries.  I agree they are a much better tandem, but only when Gio is being used as a #2 back.  We went half almost half a season until that happened.  

(09-08-2015, 11:35 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Lafell isnt better than sanu....put sanu woth TB and look what will happen. Same with Hawkins. You put Lafell with the Brownsand the same happens. You're talking about a player going and playing with the best qb and coach of all times...and you keep comparing olsen to wrs...its irrelevant. Olsen isnt a top 5 te in the league. Hes good but he's not some god send like you are suggesting. Dalton has clearly had more talented skill players during his tenure that Cam has...simple as that. Has any of Cams #2 wrs put up 10 tds? Dalton has always had a plethora of talent and cam has always lacked weapons. Its not just me sayin it....not that i follow the national media and everythingthey say but theyve said it every year as well as its very simple to see. Cam has always lacked weapons.

Olsen has outproduced both Sanu and Jones in terms of yards and receptions since they both been in the league combined.

What's that say about those two if you don't even consider him a top TE?  

(09-08-2015, 11:35 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Sure, Chip is a gimmick coach who took the Eagles and their unimpressive roster to the playoffs 2 years in a row. Nick Foles has a better season in 2013 than Dalton could ever dream of and Chip still traded him away, because you are in this to win super bowls, not playoff appearances. Dalton clearly isn't the guy to take us to the promised land and if you think otherwise, I honestly dont know what games you have been watching. Is Aaron Rodgers, Ben Roethlisberger, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, etc Super Bowl winning QBs because they have 1 good game every couple games? No its because they are consistent. You guys can keep hoping and praying that Dalton will have one of his 2 game stretches where he plays well, and hope the stars align and he has one of em come playoff time where the pressure is on and he clearly hasnt played well under pressure, but me, Id much rather have a QB who doesnt put up a 120 qb rating one week and then throw out 2 50 qb ratings game. Like I said, Dalton is who he is. Its time to move on.

Finally a man with a brain. I have no idea why other fans don't see it from this perspective.

(09-08-2015, 11:47 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Finally a man with a brain. I have no idea why other fans don't see it from this perspective.

No mention of Flacco?  Eli Manning?  Wonder why?  

(09-08-2015, 11:47 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Finally a man with a brain. I have no idea why other fans don't see it from this perspective.

Because if the Ravens had moved on from Flacco they wouldn't have a superbowl ring. That is pretty much the jist of it. Guys like Flacco and Eli Manning provide faith that the inconsistent QB can somehow string together a playoff run. Will Dalton do so? Most likely not, but to pretend that guys with similar issues to Dalton DON'T EVER win in the superbowl is wrong.

If we could for sure ditch Dalton and have an elite consistent QB like the four he listed, then great, but otherwise you hold onto the thought that "Hey, Eli Manning and Joe Flacco somehow did it.. so ya it could happen."

Even Kaepernick has shown he can make it to the big game, if you want to talk about 120QBR one game and 50 the next 2.

It's the not so good QBs that have done it before that leaves room for Dalton to stick around.

(09-08-2015, 11:54 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Because if the Ravens had moved on from Flacco they wouldn't have a superbowl ring. That is pretty much the jist of it. Guys like Flacco and Eli Manning provide faith that the inconsistent QB can somehow string together a playoff run. Will Dalton do so? Most likely not, but to pretend that guys with similar issues to Dalton DON'T EVER win in the superbowl is wrong.

If we could for sure ditch Dalton and have an elite consistent QB like the four he listed, then great, but otherwise you hold onto the thought that "Hey, Eli Manning and Joe Flacco somehow did it.. so ya it could happen."

Even Kaepernick has shown he can make it to the big game, if you want to talk about 120QBR one game and 50 the next 2.

It's the not so good QBs that have done it before that leaves room for Dalton to stick around.

Most likely not?  Why?  Is he only capable of reading defenses and throwing TDs in the regular season?  What is fundamentally different about the playoffs that make it impossible for him to string together a stretch of a couple decent games?

(09-08-2015, 10:36 AM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Did you see what the Eagles did this offseason?  They went out and got Bradford. Why did Chip Kelly do that? He said getting to the playoffs just isn't enough, it's about winning a Super Bowl. I know most Bengals fans are scared of change because the 90s are still lurking in the back of your minds. Dalton will never take us to the Super Bowl. He has reached his ceiling. No he is not gonna magically breakout and become the best QB or a top 5 QB in the league. What you've seen the last 4 years is what you get. I'm not an NFL coach but I do see that McCarron's pocket presence is light years ahead of Dalton's only after a few preseason games. He will stand in the pocket and deliver a big throw in the of intense pressure and make the throw, something that Dalton doesn't do. He also has a stronger arm than Dalton. McCarron's ceiling is about 20 foot higher than Dalton's. I don't see McCarron starting this year unless injury but I do see him as out starter at some point in time beyond the 2015 season. Why do you think they have Dalton the contract they did? Was it just coincidence or did it give them an exit plan because they too aren't completely sold on him?

If you look at Peyton Mannings' stats somewhere around year 5 something changed and he did breakout.  I'm not saying he'll be another Manning but it can happen.  Dalton can make a lot of the throws.

(09-08-2015, 11:35 PM)whodey4life84 Wrote: Lafell isnt better than sanu....put sanu woth TB and look what will happen. Same with Hawkins. You put Lafell with the Brownsand the same happens. You're talking about a player going and playing with the best qb and coach of all times...and you keep comparing olsen to wrs...its irrelevant. Olsen isnt a top 5 te in the league. Hes good but he's not some god send like you are suggesting. Dalton has clearly had more talented skill players during his tenure that Cam has...simple as that. Has any of Cams #2 wrs put up 10 tds? Dalton has always had a plethora of talent and cam has always lacked weapons. Its not just me sayin it....not that i follow the national media and everythingthey say but theyve said it every year as well as its very simple to see. Cam has always lacked weapons.

Most teams would've taken Olsen over Gresham tho. And to be fair, no one knew how good Jones was until Dalton began targeting him. He wasn't throwing it to himself. Before that everyone was believing Sanu was going to be the #2 because of a few TDs in a short span (before his injury). Last season we had depleted weapons and Cam and Dalton put up similar numbers, plus he played in a weaker division.

(09-09-2015, 12:00 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Most likely not?  Why?  Is he only capable of reading defenses and throwing TDs in the regular season?  What is fundamentally different about the playoffs that make it impossible for him to string together a stretch of a couple decent games?

Based on the available data, the answer is most likely not.  Maybe the Law of Averages says yes, but the odds at this point say no.  It is a decent sample size.

An first, he has to string together one good game.  If he can do that, who knows where it leads?

My support for him is this--he is capable of outstanding, which gives hope but also capable of downright miserable, which brings doubt.  He is our best option right now, so I support him.   I do not fully trust him.

(09-09-2015, 12:15 AM)McC Wrote: Based on the available data, the answer is most likely not.  Maybe the Law of Averages says yes, but the odds at this point say no.  It is a decent sample size.

An first, he has to string together one good game.  If he can do that, who knows where it leads?

My support for him is this--he is capable of outstanding, which gives hope but also capable of downright miserable, which brings doubt.  He is our best option right now, so I support him.   I do not fully trust him.

4 Games isn't much of a sample size.  Especially when you consider the 4 games coincide with his first 4 years in the league.  

(09-09-2015, 12:44 AM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: 4 Games isn't much of a sample size.  Especially when you consider the 4 games coincide with his first 4 years in the league.  

It is not only the 4 playoff games. While it is apparent you agree Dalton did not play well in any of them because you want to exclude them (as not statistically relevant). There are plenty here that say he did not play bad in two of them. That is a joke...not playing bad does not equal playing winning football. 

You have referred to the 64 game sample often. List the winning streak of greater than three games this team has had against winning (playoff caliber) teams. We will be waiting awhile because it does not exist. 

I am not saying it is all on Dalton, but I am saying Dalton is not good enough to overcome this teams deficiencies (coaching included) 

Dalton does not have the skills of any of the top QB's and for those of you who think he has equal QB skills to the next level guys like Cam, Flacco or Eli...you are not being rational. 

He is a bottom third QB. If he has a top 5 team like Brad Johnson's or Dilfer then maybe he could get out of his own way and win a Superbowl. However as all the Dalton homers point out the rest of the team is not very good...you hear it every post. They are over rated, often injured, can't block or tackle and don't show up for the playoff games. 

If you believe this team is capable of winning the whole thing with ANY QB then we have a chance this year. If you believe this team will need a QB who will have to carry them at some point, show any proof that Dalton can do this. Use 64 or 68 games and find just one that the team fell apart and Dalton was the reason for the win....uh-mm crickets. 

(09-09-2015, 01:21 AM)Rhinocero23 Wrote: It is not only the 4 playoff games. While it is apparent you agree Dalton did not play well in any of them because you want to exclude them (as not statistically relevant). There are plenty here that say he did not play bad in two of them. That is a joke...not playing bad does not equal playing winning football. 

You have referred to the 64 game sample often. List the winning streak of greater than three games this team has had against winning (playoff caliber) teams. We will be waiting awhile because it does not exist. 

I am not saying it is all on Dalton, but I am saying Dalton is not good enough to overcome this teams deficiencies (coaching included) 

Dalton does not have the skills of any of the top QB's and for those of you who think he has equal QB skills to the next level guys like Cam, Flacco or Eli...you are not being rational. 

He is a bottom third QB. If he has a top 5 team like Brad Johnson's or Dilfer then maybe he could get out of his own way and win a Superbowl. However as all the Dalton homers point out the rest of the team is not very good...you hear it every post. They are over rated, often injured, can't block or tackle and don't show up for the playoff games. 

If you believe this team is capable of winning the whole thing with ANY QB then we have a chance this year. If you believe this team will need a QB who will have to carry them at some point, show any proof that Dalton can do this. Use 64 or 68 games and find just one that the team fell apart and Dalton was the reason for the win....uh-mm crickets. 

Eli really overcame deficiencies the last couple seasons. LOL. Flacco has had solid defense and a solid running game throughout most of his career. Cam struggled to get a winning record in arguably the weakest division in football. 

A few QBs can actually "carry" a team. Don't get that point twisted. I'm sure he wasn't considered a "bottom third" following 2013. Dalton has 9 4th Quarter comebacks in his 4 seasons. Thats the same as Luck (since 2012) and Cam (since 2011). Flacco has 14 in only 3 more seasons. The only thing with Dalton is consistency, and not even within the game, just within the entire season (and into the postseason). If he can maintain the good then he definitely is in the top half of the league in matters of QBs. 

So in other words...

"No can not point to one game to answer your question"

(09-08-2015, 01:44 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Just shows how clueless the OC was for trotting Gio out there as a #1 RB.  

funny, people cap on Gresham's 6 fumbles over 2 seasons, but Hill fumbled 5 times in half a season. Maybe there was a reason why he couldn't get the starting spot earlier in the year.