(09-01-2018, 06:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is not just PFF that sees that Westerman has been better than the other Guards not named Boling.

I see it, sure it is my opinion but to say he has not played well is untrue.

I don't put much stock in PFF, i trust my eyes but i think they are kind of right about Westerman playing well.

He played good against the Colts (backups granted) at RG. Just don't know why he isn't given a shot to start.

Would like Cooper here though of course.

I was one of the many people that loved the Pollack pickup but if he has a doghouse like PA did for players i am
not as big of a fan. My only gripe with Pollack if this is his doghouse and not Marv's with Westerman. Have to give
the players that play the best the chance to start regardless of practice or whatever.

Westerman plays good on game day when given a chance.

So you know better than two O line coaches who feel he isn’t good enough to start?

(09-01-2018, 06:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is not just PFF that sees that Westerman has been better than the other Guards not named Boling.

I see it, sure it is my opinion but to say he has not played well is untrue.

I don't put much stock in PFF, i trust my eyes but i think they are kind of right about Westerman playing well.

He played good against the Colts (backups granted) at RG. Just don't know why he isn't given a shot to start.

Would like Cooper here though of course.

I was one of the many people that loved the Pollack pickup but if he has a doghouse like PA did for players i am
not as big of a fan. My only gripe with Pollack if this is his doghouse and not Marv's with Westerman. Have to give
the players that play the best the chance to start regardless of practice or whatever.

Westerman plays good on game day when given a chance.

I thought he was not that great with colts on a few played, I was at game , he a a clear whiff on a pass block lost his feet on a couple plays against 2nds and 3rds., I never said he played terrible thi preseason but Hopkins played a clean preseason no sacks or penalties I believe against mostly ones was not terrible . As the season unfolds we will see, I believe coaches will make changes if needed.

If we bring in anybody, I’d prefer youth and upside.

(09-01-2018, 10:01 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: If we bring in anybody, I’d prefer youth and upside.

Cooper not exactly a geezer, he in the middle years of his playing time.  If the knee surgery was successful, he could be playable for another 5-7 years.  I would have no issues with the team bringing him in on a "prove it" type of deal, and then giving him a fair contract if he pans out.

(09-01-2018, 06:58 PM)Au165 Wrote: So you know better than two O line coaches who feel he isn’t good enough to start?

The real question is whether he's better than the Gs we have on the roster. Not that he didn't start in Dallas.

Not to play devils advocate, but someone has to be the weakest link on even the best teams. I suspect Cooper was that guy. 

(09-01-2018, 06:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: It is not just PFF that sees that Westerman has been better than the other Guards not named Boling.

I see it, sure it is my opinion but to say he has not played well is untrue.

I don't put much stock in PFF, i trust my eyes but i think they are kind of right about Westerman playing well.

He played good against the Colts (backups granted) at RG. Just don't know why he isn't given a shot to start.

Would like Cooper here though of course.

I was one of the many people that loved the Pollack pickup but if he has a doghouse like PA did for players i am
not as big of a fan. My only gripe with Pollack if this is his doghouse and not Marv's with Westerman. Have to give
the players that play the best the chance to start regardless of practice or whatever.

Westerman plays good on game day when given a chance.

You, me, and a lot of others have been praising Pollack ever since he got here. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on this. He has his reasons, a few of which we aren't privy to at the moment, so let's watch and see if we learn something that has yet to become clear. Chances are Pollack wants Westerman to succeed as.much as we want. 

(09-02-2018, 03:24 AM)grampahol Wrote: Not to play devils advocate, but someone has to be the weakest link on even the best teams. I suspect Cooper was that guy. 

Even if true, I'd take the weakest link on the Cowboys line over the weakest link on our line. 

The Cowboys gave up 32 sacks and finished 2nd in rushing (3rd in YPC). We haven't had a season that good in both of those categories since 1988, when an excellent line led us to the Super Bowl.

(09-02-2018, 10:22 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Even if true, I'd take the weakest link on the Cowboys line over the weakest link on our line. 

The Cowboys gave up 32 sacks and finished 2nd in rushing (3rd in YPC). We haven't had a season that good in both of those categories since 1988, when an excellent line led us to the Super Bowl.

Here the problem with that logic, he has been on 5 team rosters in 7 years, so sounds like he cant even be the weakest link and if the answer back is he has been hurt a lot I dont want him, I might not like the trio of our guards but they are healthy and know the system now.

(09-02-2018, 10:31 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Here the problem with that logic, he has been on 5 team rosters in 7 years, so sounds like he cant even be the weakest link and if the answer back is he has been hurt a lot I dont want him, I might not like the trio of our guards but they are healthy and know the system now.

Even as a G he is probably a better RT than Cedric

Cooper is worth an add because he’s better than at least 2 OL we kept. But he has not lived up to his draft spot by any means, and he’s not starting caliber. I’d take him over Cedric 6 days a week and 33 times on Sundays.

(09-02-2018, 10:31 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Here the problem with that logic, he has been on 5 team rosters in 7 years, so sounds like he cant even be the weakest link and if the answer back is he has been hurt a lot I dont want him, I might not like the trio of our guards but they are healthy and know the system now.

1. Not sure who you're looking at, but Cooper has only played 5 years.
2. He started 13 games for the Cowboys last year.
3. Andre Smith had more injuries than Cooper, and most on here loved that guy. We also have Cordy Glenn, who has had his fair share of injuries lately.
4. Cooper is more familiar with the o-line coach than any guy on our roster.

(09-02-2018, 10:56 AM)RunKijanaRun Wrote: Cooper is worth an add because he’s better than at least 2 OL we kept. But he has not lived up to his draft spot by any means, and he’s not starting caliber. I’d take him over Cedric 6 days a week and 33 times on Sundays.

...and in the end, that's really all that matters. I'd plug him in at RG over Trey Hopkins without blinking.

That said, signing him doesn't even mean we have to start him.

He could be insurance in case there are problems, and his familiarity with Pollack would automatically give him a leg up.

(09-01-2018, 04:24 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: So true, easy to see.

If a player plays better than the guy ahead of him give the player that is playing better a shot to start.

Don't know why i seem to argue this with people every dang year.

Actually it is not that easy to see at all.  In fact many times when the fan favorite "beast" finally gets to play he doesn't look that great.

(09-02-2018, 11:15 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 3. Andre Smith had more injuries than Cooper, and most on here loved that guy. We also have Cordy Glenn, who has had his fair share of injuries lately.

Not even close.  In Dres first five years he played in 59 games including 50 starts.

In Coopers first five seasons he has played in 42 games with about half as many starts as Dre (27) .

(09-01-2018, 06:28 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was one of the many people that loved the Pollack pickup but if he has a doghouse like PA did for players i am
not as big of a fan.

So that makes two NFL O-line coaches that are dumber than you?

(09-01-2018, 03:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, he will know.

I think he would be an upgrade myself if we are refusing to start Westerman no matter what.

Redmond has been a penalty machine and Hopkins is just a backup.

This is what I came to say. Can he wait until the ball is snapped before moving? If so, that's automatically a RG improvement, regardless of how he performs in blocking.

(09-02-2018, 11:15 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Not sure who you're looking at, but Cooper has only played 5 years.
2. He started 13 games for the Cowboys last year.
3. Andre Smith had more injuries than Cooper, and most on here loved that guy. We also have Cordy Glenn, who has had his fair share of injuries lately.
4. Cooper is more familiar with the o-line coach than any guy on our roster.


...and in the end, that's really all that matters. I'd plug him in at RG over Trey Hopkins without blinking.

That said, signing him doesn't even mean we have to start him.

He could be insurance in case there are problems, and his familiarity with Pollack would automatically give him a leg up.

Well that is even worse that he has been on 5 teams in 5 year,,woo not good. My point is he is injury prone at this time after cuts I would not pick him up if injury question to CUT  a healthy guard, let's look first at guard that is healthy to replace Redmond or westerman

(09-02-2018, 08:24 AM)wildcats forever Wrote: You, me, and a lot of others have been praising Pollack ever since he got here. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt on this. He has his reasons, a few of which we aren't privy to at the moment, so let's watch and see if we learn something that has yet to become clear. Chances are Pollack wants Westerman to succeed as.much as we want. 

simple undeniable logic

(09-02-2018, 10:42 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Even as a G he is probably a better RT than Cedric

I wonder how a Bodine vs Ced tackle battle would play out.

(09-02-2018, 11:42 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not even close.  In Dres first five years he played in 59 games including 50 starts.

In Coopers first five seasons he has played in 42 games with about half as many starts as Dre (27) .

I can play this game too. In the 3 seasons prior to the last time we signed Andre, he missed 21 of 48 games.

In Cooper's last 3 seasons, he's missed 16 of 48 games.

(09-02-2018, 11:58 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Well that is even worse that he has been on 5 teams in 5 year,,woo not good. My point is he is injury prone at this time after cuts I would not pick him up if injury question to CUT  a healthy guard, let's look first at guard that is healthy to replace Redmond or westerman

If he's injured or less than 100% due to a prior injury, I wouldn't want him in the first place.

If he's 100% and you don't want a potential upgrade based on a few injuries in his past, that's where we'd disagree.