(09-14-2018, 04:55 PM)WhoDeyandtheBlowFish Wrote: What?  You are making 0 since.  It's not like he skipped over "off games" over the past 16.

These stats literally coincide with replacing an inept offensive coordinator.  This isn't random, and it's not cherry picking.

(09-14-2018, 05:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: His last 16 games include those back-to-back atrocities against the Bears and Vikings last year (25-51, 254 yds, 1 td, 3 ints, 45.7 rating)

Meh?  Whatever... it is cherry picking, but I like Dalton and have no wish to argue, so call it whatever you wish.

(09-14-2018, 06:07 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Meh?  Whatever... it is cherry picking, 

No it is not cherry picking.  Go look up th definition.  "Cherry picking" is picking games just to make Dalton look better.  I am picking these games to show what effect Lazor had as OC.

Is it cherry picking to talk about how good the Patriots have been since Belichick became their head coach?

(09-14-2018, 06:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it is not cherry picking.  Go look up th definition.  "Cherry picking" is picking games just to make Dalton look better.  I am picking these games to show what effect Lazor had as OC.

Is it cherry picking to talk about how good the Patriots have been since Belichick became their head coach?

No... I don't need to look up Cherry picking...  as I said, I am not interested in arguing.  You can continue cherry picking to your hearts content.

(09-14-2018, 06:29 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: No... I don't need to look up Cherry picking...  as I said, I am not interested in arguing.  You can continue cherry picking to your hearts content.

I am not arguing.  I am just pointing out that you are wrong.

And since you are not interested in arguing you will not respond to this post, right? 

(09-14-2018, 04:26 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: This is cherry picking to the max.

I am a Dalton supporter and believe we can win a SB with him. However, I am not a fan of choosing certain time frames to try and promote a player with the stats from those time frames.

It’s not cherry picking. It’s his first 16 games with Lazor. In this case, 16 isn’t some arbritary number, it’s a full seasons worth of games with Lazor commanding the offense and how Andy has done.

(09-14-2018, 06:33 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I am not arguing.  I am just pointing out that you are wrong.

And since you are not interested in arguing you will not respond to this post, right? 

Why wouldn't I respond to this post.  Claim what you will.  Don't care.

He could have tossed 8tds lastnight and 50 in the last 16 games and it wouldn’t matter. Those that don’t like him never will. The dalton scale fair or not will be his story throughout his career.

(09-14-2018, 04:26 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: This is cherry picking to the max.

I am a Dalton supporter and believe we can win a SB with him.  However, I am not a fan of choosing certain time frames to try and promote a player with the stats from those time frames.

Fred used to do that in defense of homer bailey too.  And we see how that turned out.  Bailey has shown us exactly what most of us knew way back then....he just isnt very good

What it shows is the difference a good OC can make.

You cherry picker Fred

Looking at the last 16 games since Lazor has been gone isn't fair because well ummm because Dalton doesn't have a truly horrible game in there to bring his stats down. If he did then it would be a perfectly good sample.

See how that works

Never gave up on the kid or even said anything silly like he should be replaced by McAJ.

Anybody that judges any QB when their OL is as bad as ours was last year, is just not being fair at all.

OL stunk, run game stunk and somehow the QB is supposed to be good. Just craziness.

Fred was not cherry picking either, although he is a master at it.

If he was he could have easily took Dalton's first two games this year and projected them out to 16 and showed an extremely absurd #.

What he did show tells of not only how good Andy has done but Lazor as well. Really like his play calling so far this season except for right before halftime of Ravens game. Thought he should have made sure some clock ran off.

Win a playoff game, until then the stats are meaningless

(09-15-2018, 12:57 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: Win a playoff game, until then the stats are meaningless

So is this demand. You have to win regular season games to get to the playoffs.

Fred's post is not cherry picking; it is selective.

Given his parameters that would put Andy just out of the top 10 in passer rating from last year. Seems about right as he has only been inside the top 10 once.

Here's to hoping this year makes it twice,

(09-14-2018, 06:07 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Meh?  Whatever... it is cherry picking

Actually, he's not cherry picking.  He citing a specific range of games, in order to illustrate the difference from one Offensive Coordinator, to our current one.

Perhaps you should study up on the definition of "cherry picking", or just man up and give fredtoast his due apology?

(09-15-2018, 01:40 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Actually, he's not cherry picking.  He citing a specific range of games, in order to illustrate the difference from one Offensive Coordinator, to our current one.

Perhaps you should study up on the definition of "cherry picking", or just man up and give fredtoast his due apology?

For what?  Cherry Picking... no thanks. 

He is cherry picking.  Everyone does it in the NFL. 

They will say things like Since this period to this period this is how awesome this guy was.... just because the time that Fred is using happens to be from when Lazor started to now doesn't stop it from being cherry picking.

The last 16 games are meaningless... it is only the 16 games in a season that matters, and then the post season. 

This thread is an attempt at making it sound like Dalton is a different QB now than he was before.  Dalton is still the same QB, and if Dalton goes on a slump for the next 16 games, then I wonder if Fred will throw up the stats as a whole or just use the most current 16 games?  I think he will just ignore the stats all together.  If we started 0-2 this thread wouldn't have been created.

Also don't try to claim it has anything to do with Lazor, cause if it was Lazor then he would have said the offense as a whole, this is all about hyping up Dalton.

The reason I don't even want to argue is because I like Dalton.  I think he is one of the better QBs in the league and provided that everyone around him performs, can win a SB.  If cherry picking the past 16 games to hype up Dalton is what Fred needs to do to feel better about the Bengals QB then fine, cherry pick all you want. 

To me the stats that matter are:

Comp%     Yrd        TDs    INTs       QBR
62.4%     26,042     173     94        89.1

Other than specific games only, any other stat time frame are just cherry picked to hype a player up or to tear them down.

So I will save my apology for when I am actually wrong.   

(09-14-2018, 04:17 PM)fredtoast Wrote: 31 td
9 int
95.0 Passer rating
9-7 record

Two weeks into the 2017 season experts were claiming Dalton was finished and should be replaced.  Although I thought that was crazy it was hard to defend an 0-2 record 4 ints, zero tds, and a 47.2 passer rating

Cool stats there Fred. Thought he was playing well and he looks really accurate out there and is not panicking.

He used to panic and that was always my greatest criticism of Dalton. But he looks comfortable. Lazor has done
wonders and i think the Van Pelt grab was one that is really flying under the radar along with the new WR coach.

(09-15-2018, 06:47 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: For what?  Cherry Picking... no thanks. 

He is cherry picking.  Everyone does it in the NFL. 

They will say things like Since this period to this period this is how awesome this guy was.... just because the time that Fred is using happens to be from when Lazor started to now doesn't stop it from being cherry picking.

The last 16 games are meaningless... it is only the 16 games in a season that matters, and then the post season. 

This thread is an attempt at making it sound like Dalton is a different QB now than he was before.  Dalton is still the same QB, and if Dalton goes on a slump for the next 16 games, then I wonder if Fred will throw up the stats as a whole or just use the most current 16 games?  I think he will just ignore the stats all together.  If we started 0-2 this thread wouldn't have been created.

Also don't try to claim it has anything to do with Lazor, cause if it was Lazor then he would have said the offense as a whole, this is all about hyping up Dalton.

The reason I don't even want to argue is because I like Dalton.  I think he is one of the better QBs in the league and provided that everyone around him performs, can win a SB.  If cherry picking the past 16 games to hype up Dalton is what Fred needs to do to feel better about the Bengals QB then fine, cherry pick all you want. 

To me the stats that matter are:

Comp%     Yrd        TDs    INTs       QBR
62.4%     26,042     173     94        89.1

Other than specific games only, any other stat time frame are just cherry picked to hype a player up or to tear them down.

So I will save my apology for when I am actually wrong.   

This about sums up how silly you sound throughout this thread. First you bury your head in the sand about clearly being wrong on cherry picked stats. 

Then, in your same post contradict your own idiotic statement. You say only the stats from this year should count because it's a new season and then go to post stats from other seasons as the only ones that matter. According to your own logic the only stats that should really matter are:

2018:
64.3%     508yrd     6TDs       1Int


And if you really think an OC/QB coach cant make a difference in the way a QB plays you're just oblivious to how football is actually played.

(09-15-2018, 02:12 PM)Sweetness Wrote: This about sums up how silly you sound throughout this thread. First you bury your head in the sand about clearly being wrong on cherry picked stats. 

Then, in your same post contradict your own idiotic statement. You say only the stats from this year should count because it's a new season and then go to post stats from other seasons as the only ones that matter. According to your own logic the only stats that should really matter are:

2018:
64.3%     508yrd     6TDs       1Int


And if you really think an OC/QB coach cant make a difference in the way a QB plays you're just oblivious to how football is actually played.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.  It shows your inability to understand what is written.

Since we are going back into last season we aren't 2-0 we are actually 4-0.  I mean why not go back to last year right?  Who cares about things like through the whole course of a season.  No let's start in week 2 of last year and go through to week 2 of this year.  See how silly that is?

The stats that count on whether or not Dalton is any good are the career stats that I posted.  Now since the NFL is a win NOW and not last year,  Then the only real stats for this year that matter are these last 2 games.  Or are you just not capable of understanding how a person's career stats in relation to the current season stats are to be viewed?

As to how a coach having a difference on the way a QB plays is why I say Brady is a system QB.  If he wants the GOAT title he needs to leave NE and play for the Chargers or some other team. 

As to the relevance of Lazor taking over?  It isn't relevant.  A OC influences the whole team... you want to talk about Lazor then post the offenses totals for the time he took over, Rushing TDs, Turnovers, 1st downs, 3rd down Conv. 4th down Conv.  4th quarter comebacks.  % of having the lead in the 4th and then losing the game.  Then you can go back to the 2nd game of last year. 

Using Dalton just shows that the cherry picking is only to hype Dalton up.  If you don't understand that then maybe you should try to focus more learning about football then trying to be witty on the message board.

Fred cherry picked, or as BFine put it, selectively picked, I called him out on it.  Said I didn't want to argue.  Leave it at that.  STFU with trying to sound smart, because you don't have the ability for it.

The amount of dumb from one person just went over level 9000.

Congrats to anyone who gets that reference.