Also, all of the negotiations between Bell and the Steelers took place before the Todd Gurley contract. That's kind of been lost in all of this and tends to retrospectively put things in a different light.

The Steelers weren't just dicking him around with low ball offers, they legitimately thought that they were making him a really good offer at 5 years $70M since....at the time.... it was more that one and a half times the next highest paid running back. And I agree, it was, and still is a really good offer. From Bell's perspective though, it wasn't enough guaranteed (IIRC it was 30 some million). Fair point, but if you've been following this for the last two years like we do in Pittsburgh, you'd know that Bell has been all over the map with what he wants. Between his agent, tweets, and rap songs, his demands have gone from 12 to 14 to 15 million, always just out of reach of what the Steelers have been offering. He's been moving the goalposts for 2 years.

So yeah, in hindsight maybe the Steelers should have put the non exclusive tag on him and let him negotiate and possibly get two first rounders. Given the Gurley contract, that seems like it maybe would have worked (although I doubt it, because TWO first rounders is steep for any player).

As far as giving him what he wants, then trying to trade him, that's not an option. There are cap issues you'd have to deal with, including accelerating any signing bonuses into the current years cap when you trade someone. If they gave him a $10M bonus over 5 years, that counts $2M/year against the cap. Trading him immediately after means that all 5 years bonus money, $10M, is accelerated into this years cap. The dead money on the books would be crippling. 

(09-07-2018, 07:27 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Also, all of the negotiations between Bell and the Steelers took place before the Todd Gurley contract. That's kind of been lost in all of this and tends to retrospectively put things in a different light.

The Steelers weren't just dicking him around with low ball offers, they legitimately thought that they were making him a really good offer at 5 years $70M since....at the time.... it was more that one and a half times the next highest paid running back. And I agree, it was, and still is a really good offer. From Bell's perspective though, it wasn't enough guaranteed (IIRC it was 30 some million). Fair point, but if you've been following this for the last two years like we do in Pittsburgh, you'd know that Bell has been all over the map with what he wants. Between his agent, tweets, and rap songs, his demands have gone from 12 to 14 to 15 million, always just out of reach of what the Steelers have been offering. He's been moving the goalposts for 2 years.

So yeah, in hindsight maybe the Steelers should have put the non exclusive tag on him and let him negotiate and possibly get two first rounders. Given the Gurley contract, that seems like it maybe would have worked (although I doubt it, because TWO first rounders is steep for any player).

As far as giving him what he wants, then trying to trade him, that's not an option. There are cap issues you'd have to deal with, including accelerating any signing bonuses into the current years cap when you trade someone. If they gave him a $10M bonus over 5 years, that counts $2M/year against the cap. Trading him immediately after means that all 5 years bonus money, $10M, is accelerated into this years cap. The dead money on the books would be crippling. 

I've always been of the understanding that sign and trade deals were always sort of pre-negotiated between all parties involved.  With the team receiving the big money player being completely in the know, and fully accepting of the newly agreed to contract.  Is this not the normal for those situations?

$38K a day for 5 years straight is nothing to sneeze at in my book.

Plus what makes it so certain Bell deserves more than Gurley ? Here are their stats from last season.

..................att  / yds....................avg.............rec. /. yds......avg..................TD's

Bell ...........321 / 1,291 yds..........4.0...............85 / 655..........7.7...................11
Gurley........279 / 1,305 yds..........4.7..............64 / 788............12.3................19

Gurley got more yds with less touches in rushing and receiving and 8 more TD's last season.

Gurley is also is 2 years younger at 24 with less mileage on his legs. Plus comes with much less baggage.

(09-07-2018, 11:30 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus what makes it so certain Bell deserves more than Gurley ? Here are their stats from last season.

..................att  / yds....................avg.............rec. /. yds......avg..................TD's

Bell ...........321 / 1,291 yds..........4.0...............85 / 655..........7.7...................11
Gurley........279 / 1,305 yds..........4.7..............64 / 788............12.3................19

Gurley got more yds with less touches in rushing and receiving and 8 more TD's last season.

Gurley is also is 2 years younger at 24 with less mileage on his legs. Plus comes with much less baggage.

I'm guessing that from Bell's point of view, he's worth it because he can handle 400+ touches/season.  That certainly is impressive, but how long can he keep doing that?  So far, father time is undefeated, and statistics show that guys with the types of injuries that he's sustained, have shorter peak playing careers.

(09-07-2018, 11:56 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'm guessing that from Bell's point of view, he's worth it because he can handle 400+ touches/season.  That certainly is impressive, but how long can he keep doing that?  So far, father time is undefeated, and statistics show that guys with the types of injuries that he's sustained, have shorter peak playing careers.

The burden of handling 400+ touches a season is impressive. 

But find it more impressive for Gurley to get 147 more yds, 8 more TD's on 63 less touches. Not have suspension, injury, and locker room cancer in his history as well.  

If somebody told me the Bengals could have their choice of either for free ? Would pick Gurley all day at this juncture in time without hesitation. 

(09-07-2018, 06:53 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Wrong again

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000919812/article/steelers-use-exclusive-franchise-tag-on-leveon-bell

And isn't this just a different way of saying that they own his rights? 

(09-07-2018, 07:27 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Also, all of the negotiations between Bell and the Steelers took place before the Todd Gurley contract. That's kind of been lost in all of this and tends to retrospectively put things in a different light.

The Steelers weren't just dicking him around with low ball offers, they legitimately thought that they were making him a really good offer at 5 years $70M since....at the time.... it was more that one and a half times the next highest paid running back. And I agree, it was, and still is a really good offer. From Bell's perspective though, it wasn't enough guaranteed (IIRC it was 30 some million). Fair point, but if you've been following this for the last two years like we do in Pittsburgh, you'd know that Bell has been all over the map with what he wants. Between his agent, tweets, and rap songs, his demands have gone from 12 to 14 to 15 million, always just out of reach of what the Steelers have been offering. He's been moving the goalposts for 2 years.

So yeah, in hindsight maybe the Steelers should have put the non exclusive tag on him and let him negotiate and possibly get two first rounders. Given the Gurley contract, that seems like it maybe would have worked (although I doubt it, because TWO first rounders is steep for any player).

As far as giving him what he wants, then trying to trade him, that's not an option. There are cap issues you'd have to deal with, including accelerating any signing bonuses into the current years cap when you trade someone. If they gave him a $10M bonus over 5 years, that counts $2M/year against the cap. Trading him immediately after means that all 5 years bonus money, $10M, is accelerated into this years cap. The dead money on the books would be crippling. 

That's my bad.  I didn't realize they put the exclusive tag on him.

The Steelers made Bell a good offer.   I'm not going to argue that.  He wasn't low balled.  But he can get more on the open market.  After playing out his rookie deal and then getting tagged, Bell obviously doesn't feel like giving them the hometown discount.  Or, he just doesn't want to play there regardless of the money and the Steelers are using the tag to keep him there.  I would say he feels dissed by the Steelers because he had to play out his rookie deal and guys like Brown and Villanueva didn't.

If the Steelers had any intention of trading Bell, they wouldn't have used the exclusive tag on him.  That's likely a big reason Bell is so ticked.  They are basically using the tag to attempt to strongarm him into accepting their offer. Every year he's under the tag, the less he's worth on the open market. 

The Steelers could have traded him without taking the cap hit.  Basically, Bell's agent would work out a contract with the team he is being traded to.  Bell would then sign the franchise tag tender, which has no bonus money associated with it, the Steelers would do the trade, and Bell would sign the new deal with the new team.  But, it appears they had no intention of allowing him to seek a trade, so the point is moot.

At the end of the day, both parties have their fair points and their BS.  The Steelers are doing what they think is best for them and Bell is doing what he thinks is best for him.  From what I've seen in the past with the Bengals, using the franchise tag to keep a disgruntled player never seems to work out well for either party.

(09-07-2018, 11:30 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus what makes it so certain Bell deserves more than Gurley ? Here are their stats from last season.

..................att  / yds....................avg.............rec. /. yds......avg..................TD's

Bell ...........321 / 1,291 yds..........4.0...............85 / 655..........7.7...................11
Gurley........279 / 1,305 yds..........4.7..............64 / 788............12.3................19

Gurley got more yds with less touches in rushing and receiving and 8 more TD's last season.

Gurley is also is 2 years younger at 24 with less mileage on his legs. Plus comes with much less baggage.

Those are all very fair points.  However, I guarantee that part of Bell's side is he puts up more yards and more TD's than Antonio Brown so he should make more money than Brown.  I remember a quote from him saying the Steelers want to pay the position, not the player.

(09-07-2018, 11:30 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Plus what makes it so certain Bell deserves more than Gurley ? Here are their stats from last season.

..................att  / yds....................avg.............rec. /. yds......avg..................TD's

Bell ...........321 / 1,291 yds..........4.0...............85 / 655..........7.7...................11
Gurley........279 / 1,305 yds..........4.7..............64 / 788............12.3................19

Gurley got more yds with less touches in rushing and receiving and 8 more TD's last season.

Gurley is also is 2 years younger at 24 with less mileage on his legs. Plus comes with much less baggage.

I'd say that Bell's overall body of work is more impressive. Look at Gurley's 2016 season:

206 carries - 885 yards - 3.2 YPC - 6 TD's / 327 receiving yards - 7.7 per catch - 0 TD's

Of course, I drafted Gurley in fantasy that year, and I may or may not still be a little miffed about that.

I don’t know if the Steelers win that with bell or not but the rookie looked good. That’s why you don’t sign a back on a longer term deal for mega millions. Steelers look to have made the right choice not giving in to bell.

(09-09-2018, 07:36 PM)motoarch Wrote: I don’t know if the Steelers win that with bell or not but the rookie looked good.  That’s why you don’t sign a back on a longer term deal for mega millions.  Steelers look to have made the right choice not giving in to bell.

Connor looked good, but had a costly fumble deep in Steelers territory in the 4th that started the Browns rally.  I would say that with the amount of touches they gave him today that they are trying to prove they don't need Bell.

True but Big Ben had 5 turn overs so I wouldn’t put it all on the runningback.

(09-09-2018, 08:27 PM)motoarch Wrote: True but Big Ben had 5 turn overs so I wouldn’t put it all on the runningback.

The Browns best defender stripped Connor 2 yards behind the line after running through unblocked. Ball carriers can't fumble, ever, but that also can't be allowed to happen to him either.


Ben's first pick (all 3 defenders on Brown would have picked it before it got to Brown) and Jesse James volley balling the pass right into a group of defenders after it bounced off his hands were both worse than the fumble.

And his free agency value continues to plummet......

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2795709-leveon-bell-reportedly-still-concerned-about-usage-level-upon-steelers-return

(09-15-2018, 10:52 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: And his free agency value continues to plummet......

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2795709-leveon-bell-reportedly-still-concerned-about-usage-level-upon-steelers-return

NFL GM's are reportedly split on Bell's holdout hurting his value.  Some want more of a team player.  Others see it simply as a business move by a guy with only one chance to cash in.

Gotta remember that it only takes one team.  The Browns have over $60 million in cap space next year.  The Colts have over $59 mil.  The 49'ers have over $42 mil.  Any of those teams can sign Bell and still have a ton of money to make other moves with.

Bell has said he's glad Conner had a good game and he doesn't wish ill on the Steelers.  It's funny that Steeler fans hope the guy doesn't get paid.

(09-15-2018, 10:52 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: And his free agency value continues to plummet......

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2795709-leveon-bell-reportedly-still-concerned-about-usage-level-upon-steelers-return

Predicted as much

(09-07-2018, 01:04 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'd say that Bell's overall body of work is more impressive. Look at Gurley's 2016 season:

206 carries - 885 yards - 3.2 YPC - 6 TD's / 327 receiving yards - 7.7 per catch - 0 TD's

Of course, I drafted Gurley in fantasy that year, and I may or may not still be a little miffed about that.

Yes, but that is before they fixed OL. 

(09-15-2018, 12:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: NFL GM's are reportedly split on Bell's holdout hurting his value.  Some want more of a team player.  Others see it simply as a business move by a guy with only one chance to cash in.

Gotta remember that it only takes one team.  The Browns have over $60 million in cap space next year.  The Colts have over $59 mil.  The 49'ers have over $42 mil.  Any of those teams can sign Bell and still have a ton of money to make other moves with.

Bell has said he's glad Conner had a good game and he doesn't wish ill on the Steelers.  It's funny that Steeler fans hope the guy doesn't get paid.

What else could he say ? 

Funny seeing Bengals fans taking up for the punk too. 

But to each their own. 

Sorry just do not like the guy, nothing personal.

(09-15-2018, 01:56 PM)Go Cards Wrote: What else could he say ? 

Funny seeing Bengals fans taking up for the punk too. 

But to each their own. 

Sorry just do not like the guy, nothing personal.

He could just say nothing.

I don't particularly care for Bell, but he's a great RB.  I do think it's important that those guys get paid, particularly due to their short careers relative to other positions.  I enjoy the run game as a part of professional football.  The more great RB's get jacked around financially relative to their counterparts, the more great young athletes will play other positions.  The talent at the position will dwindle until it becomes virtually extinct.  We've already seen it happen with the FB.

(09-16-2018, 12:17 AM)Whatever Wrote: He could just say nothing.

I don't particularly care for Bell, but he's a great RB.  I do think it's important that those guys get paid, particularly due to their short careers relative to other positions.  I enjoy the run game as a part of professional football.  The more great RB's get jacked around financially relative to their counterparts, the more great young athletes will play other positions.  The talent at the position will dwindle until it becomes virtually extinct.  We've already seen it happen with the FB.

Fair enough

But to me over a quarter of a million dollars a week is getting paid. Not to mention endorsements and their rockstar status.  

Yet still get what you are saying