(09-14-2018, 11:12 PM)KansasBengal Wrote: Basically that MB made him promises to invest in the team but wouldn’t. That they argued about getting a GM and things to modernize the franchise. Had cap space and wouldn’t spend it to fill holes. All the stuff we complain about here all the time. Seemed like his patience ran out and that’s why he “retired”

I haven't seen it yet, either.  But looking at Palmer's career, I think he is a bit of a spoiled brat.  A very capable QB, yes, but not very accountable for his own shortcomings.  Seems to always have someone else to blame.  I compare him to a guy like Kurt Warner, who took horrible franchises to new heights and elevated those around him.  He had the toughness to wait until the last second for a receiver to make a break and would take a shot but deliver the ball accurately.

If Carson Palmer wants to run a football team, he should buy one. If he wanted to play football he should have done that. The only thing CP9 did here was abandon his team mates and left baby brother holding the bag.

(09-15-2018, 07:39 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Thank you. Pretty much confirms what we thought/knew. 

I'll never understand why so many Bengal fans hold a grudge for Carson. How can anyone not side with Carson over issues with Mike Brown? Issues we have with Mike. Carson clearly had as well... How can anyone side with the worst owner in sports history over a player who wanted necessary changes? (I think a lot of it has to do with Carsons anti-Ohio state comments from 2008 but some people won't admit it   ).

I've gone back and forth over the enigma that is Carson over the years.  I remember being in that stadium in January, 2006, when it felt like we'd finally emerged from the never-ending horror of the '90s and were on the verge of greatness once again.  That team, that season, felt like 1981 all over again, and the future seemed so bright, with a title, maybe multiple titles , within reach.  And, what a gut-punch it was to walk out of that stadium later that day with how things went down, and how bad I felt for him and the team.  

Yet, I cheered as loud as anyone in the stadium on his return visit to PBS as a Raider, when he got dumped onto the turf.  And, in the six intervening years, on this board as well as the old one, I both defended and railed against him.  So, I get where people are coming from on both sides.  However, after watching this doc, I feel like I do know Carson a little better.  And, I appreciate the struggle he had with Mike Brown, perhaps the most stubborn, foolish old man ever to inhabit an owner's box in the history of sport itself.  It's clear to me who was in the wrong. 


But, your mileage may vary, as they say.  

(09-15-2018, 09:32 AM)pally Wrote: Carson never hid the fact that he was just in Cincinnati to work.  He made no apparent effort to become part of the community.  And when during his holdout or aftermath, he made no outreach to the fans, the fans wrote him off. How much of his story is revisionist history since he would rather be remembered as the hard working Cardinal QB than the guy who quit on his team.

The fans who reportedly accosted his wife with their newborns in the grocery store, booed his 20,000 yard milestone, and dumped trash on his lawn?

[quote='jfkbengals' pid='594093' dateline='1537017707']

The fans who reportedly accosted his wife with their newborns in the grocery store, booed his 20,000 yard milestone, and dumped trash on his lawn?
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I was embarrassed by the way our fans treated him. I was mad and upset when Carson left because I felt he was a legit franchise QB that you could win a super bowl with. But deep down I knew Carson was right for leaving because he could never win with the way Mike Brown runs the franchise. I feel like it’s hypocritical for me to be mad at Carson for saying things I’ve said about Mike Brown for years. People say he was a pretty boy and not tough. He seems like a humble guy that fought back from 2 ACL tears and an elbow injury that many suggested he have Tommy John surgery on in a quest to try to win a super bowl.

(09-15-2018, 09:32 AM)pally Wrote: Carson never hid the fact that he was just in Cincinnati to work.  He made no apparent effort to become part of the community.  And when during his holdout or aftermath, he made no outreach to the fans, the fans wrote him off. How much of his story is revisionist history since he would rather be remembered as the hard working Cardinal QB than the guy who quit on his team.

Meh....it was made pretty evident from an early age, that Carson did not want the spotlight or attention. He didn't even want to win the Heisman due the attention it brought with it. Seems to me he is just a private person that just wants to be one of the guys. That type of person is often misunderstood. He didn't even have a retirement presser. What his teammates and coaches say about him doesn't sound revisionist to me.

(09-15-2018, 10:10 AM)bfine32 Wrote: If Carson Palmer wants to run a football team, he should buy one. If he wanted to play football he should have done that. The only thing CP9 did here was abandon his team mates and left baby brother holding the bag.

Except that it was those very teammates that asked him to approach ownership......

The biggest problem Carson had was that he didn't WANT to be a leader. From High School to College, and on to the pros, he wanted to be just one of the boys; and hidden in the shadows. The trouble is, in order to be an NFL QB you HAVE to be a leader in order to take that next step, whether it be a nice guy like Warner, an excitable guy like Favre, or a silent assassin who holds the other players accountable like Brady. That almost got him benched early in his Heisman year by Pete Carroll, but fortunately he made it through that phase with perhaps a little help from Norm Chow. And it wouldn't have taken much, just a bit more holding others accountable on the team, and standing up for himself. That made it easy for Mike Brown to let him go, he knew he would just go quietly. Hard worker, yes! All the physical tools, absolutely! I still remember someone using some sort of brain/personality type analysis deal; and it was pretty much spot on. It just wasn't enough to lead by example, he had to be just a bit more involved, and yes distance himself, and perhaps even put himself above his team mates a bit and hold them accountable at the risk of somebody not "liking" him; and he just wasn't that guy. He gave us some great years, and maybe, just maybe. had he not been injured in that playoff game, he may have been able to prove nice guys don't finish last (or second); but we will never know for sure. Thanks for the good years, Carson; and I wish you well in your retirement, I'm sure you'll be much happier now, best of luck!

(09-15-2018, 01:11 PM)Bengalsrob Wrote: The biggest problem Carson had was that he didn't WANT to be a leader. From High School to College, and on to the pros, he wanted to be just one of the boys; and hidden in the shadows. The trouble is, in order to be an NFL QB you HAVE to be a leader in order to take that next step, whether it be a nice guy like Warner, an excitable guy like Favre, or a silent assassin who holds the other players accountable like Brady. That almost got him benched early in his Heisman year by Pete Carroll, but fortunately he made it through that phase with perhaps a little help from Norm Chow. And it wouldn't have taken much, just a bit more holding others accountable on the team, and standing up for himself. That made it easy for Mike Brown to let him go, he knew he would just go quietly. Hard worker, yes! All the physical tools, absolutely! I still remember someone using some sort of brain/personality type analysis deal; and it was pretty much spot on. It just wasn't enough to lead by example, he had to be just a bit more involved, and yes distance himself, and perhaps even put himself above his team mates a bit and hold them accountable at the risk of somebody not "liking" him; and he just wasn't that guy. He gave us some great years, and maybe, just maybe. had he not been injured in that playoff game, he may have been able to prove nice guys don't finish last (or second); but we will never know for sure. Thanks for the good years, Carson; and I wish you well in your retirement, I'm sure you'll be much happier now, best of luck!

Well said, good post.

(09-15-2018, 12:23 PM)Wyche Wrote: Except that it was those very teammates that asked him to approach ownership......

Not sure what the point is. Do you need me to find Whitworth's comments on CP9 quitting on his team?

(09-14-2018, 11:13 PM)GodFather Wrote: There was no doubt in my mind it was brown when it went down. Mike Brown is everything as advertised, why does this shock everyone...just look at his record as the owner for proof.

Personally, Palmer was the one who got me excited again with the Bengals. He brought so much back to the team and fans when he took over. It was so exciting back then. When he left I was disappointed because he was my favorite player but not upset at him personally.

I looked at it from his point of view that heres a player who spent his life to prepare for a championship only to have Mike Brown hold back the team because he has other agendas. This documentary proved my guess right....but being a lifetime Bengals fan its not hard to predict that.

Bad news for us and the players though...Brown is still calling the shots and will probably be doing so until his last dying breath. Lets just hope Katie isn't as stubborn and stupid as dad...

Same here. I was done back in 2001-2002 years. Granted at the time I was in Columbus and thankfully was up there in the late 90s ignoring much of the Bengals during that time because there was more things going on like going to OSU. It wasn't too hard to disconnect with the worst professional franchise in sports, so I did basically.

However Marvin was hired from the outside, and Carson was drafted first overall. That is the moment I came back, though with a permanent like hesitancy which I still have to this day because of Mike Brown.

Unfortunately though for Carson, he was drafted by the Bengals. Marvin did change the culture around to a good point, not completely though. Underneath it all, the were still the same ole Bengals. 

I don't blame Carson for leaving, I certainly don't think there is such a thing as 'abandoning your team'. It's a pro sport, and this is the real world. If an employee wants out or wants changes, thats his American right to do so. He wanted changes, then wanted out. I have quit on employers because I simply hated the way they did business, and I wanted to better my career. Since they werent going to change, and my career wasn't getting better due to it, efff them I was gone. 

(09-14-2018, 10:22 PM)KansasBengal Wrote: Watching “A Football Life” on Carson on NFL Network. I’ve been mad at Carson since he left, but I have to say, the way it’s portrayed in this piece makes my blood boil about Mike Brown. We really had something and MB just pissed it away...

I've never blamed Carson for holding his ground against Mikey Brown. Mike Brown was widely considered the worst owner in all of sports at the time, and he still is in my book. The fact that he's been turning over control and we've seen improved since is proof of how bad he was.

(09-14-2018, 10:51 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Haven't seen it yet, what was said? Go ahead, spoil me

They showed Carson talking about trying to talk Mike Brown into spending some of the massive cap space the team had back in those days and getting no where. Then they played clips of Mike Brown talking.

The problem WAS Mike Brown, the problem is STILL Mike Brown, and the problem will continue until he is out of the picture.

Did Carson throw any Pick-6’s during the making of this fluff piece?

(09-15-2018, 03:58 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Not sure what the point is. Do you need me to find Whitworth's comments on CP9 quitting on his team?

Not sure why you're not sure. Whit quit for more money too. Eff him....amirite?

(09-15-2018, 05:53 PM)CincinnatiKid Wrote: Did Carson throw any Pick-6’s during the making of this fluff piece?

Actually two.

Did i hear that right? The four episodes shot after his are all in the big dance as emmy nominees?

(09-15-2018, 10:21 AM)jfkbengals Wrote: The fans who reportedly accosted his wife with their newborns in the grocery store, booed his 20,000 yard milestone, and dumped trash on his lawn?

Put a hundred people in a room.  How many of those people will be assholes?  Probably more than a few.  Does that make everyone in the room an asshole?  One guy in the room makes a mess.  Does that make everyone in the room a slob?

(09-15-2018, 06:27 PM)Wyche Wrote: Not sure why you're not sure. Whit quit for more money too. Eff him....amirite?

Whit did not quit. He honored his contracts and never quit on his team mates.

Folks can watch all the CP9 fluff pieces they want. I'll just watch replays of this and be much happier:



My only hope is Geno is telling him what a lil bytch he is while he's laying on the ground curled up.