(09-25-2018, 12:14 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Yeah, don’t get high

That's asking a lot. 

Give the FO credit. They were probably pretty sure they weren't going to be paying that all out.

(09-24-2018, 11:59 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: “In a rolling GURANATEED structure”

Rolling gaurutneed means there are triggers.

If he is cut, then it isn’t gaurunteed. It was no different than if they tagged him one more year.

Sheesh...

Per Ian Rapaport, Bell was offered five years, $70 million by the Steelers, with $33 million guaranteed. The guaranteed money spanned the first two seasons, essentially buying the Steelers Bell’s services at franchise-tag prices for two years instead of one, while securing the back for another three thereafter. Since that initial report, there has been talk that the only truly guaranteed piece of the offer was a $10 million signing bonus and that the $33 million was a rolling guarantee. This would essentially mean that the rest of the money would become guaranteed after a certain date which is really to say it’s only sort of guaranteed. However you view the guarantee structure, it seems that the offer boiled down to tagging Bell each of the next two seasons with the ability to let him go after.

(09-25-2018, 12:36 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Rolling gaurutneed means there are triggers.

If he is cut, then it isn’t gaurunteed. It was no different than if they tagged him one more year.

Sheesh...

Per Ian Rapaport, Bell was offered five years, $70 million by the Steelers, with $33 million guaranteed. The guaranteed money spanned the first two seasons, essentially buying the Steelers Bell’s services at franchise-tag prices for two years instead of one, while securing the back for another three thereafter. Since that initial report, there has been talk that the only truly guaranteed piece of the offer was a $10 million signing bonus and that the $33 million was a rolling guarantee. This would essentially mean that the rest of the money would become guaranteed after a certain date which is really to say it’s only sort of guaranteed. However you view the guarantee structure, it seems that the offer boiled down to tagging Bell each of the next two seasons with the ability to let him go after.

This is Gurleys contract. He’s only fully guaranteed $22M right now. The rest comes at a later date....in years 2 and 3. So I guess $23M of Gurleys contract is only sort of guaranteed as well. Kinda sounds like a “rolling guarantee,” doesn’t it? Sheesh....

https://overthecap.com/player/todd-gurley/3858

(09-25-2018, 12:36 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Rolling gaurutneed means there are triggers.

If he is cut, then it isn’t gaurunteed. It was no different than if they tagged him one more year.

Sheesh...

Per Ian Rapaport, Bell was offered five years, $70 million by the Steelers, with $33 million guaranteed. The guaranteed money spanned the first two seasons, essentially buying the Steelers Bell’s services at franchise-tag prices for two years instead of one, while securing the back for another three thereafter. Since that initial report, there has been talk that the only truly guaranteed piece of the offer was a $10 million signing bonus and that the $33 million was a rolling guarantee. This would essentially mean that the rest of the money would become guaranteed after a certain date which is really to say it’s only sort of guaranteed. However you view the guarantee structure, it seems that the offer boiled down to tagging Bell each of the next two seasons with the ability to let him go after.

Nice explanation, but I think you probably need to simplify it even further for Steelers fans...... do you have any crayons?

(09-25-2018, 12:51 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Nice explanation, but I think you probably need to simplify it even further for Steelers fans...... do you have any crayons?

See my post above yours, dumb dumb.

(09-25-2018, 12:50 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: This is Gurleys contract. He’s only fully guaranteed $22M right now. The rest comes at a later date....in years 2 and 3. So I guess $23M of Gurleys contract is only sort of guaranteed as well. Kinda sounds like a “rolling guarantee,” doesn’t it? Sheesh....

https://overthecap.com/player/todd-gurley/3858

If they cut Gurley after this year he still gets the other 23m when the time it’s due

Had bell been cut after this year, before the 3rd day of he new league year, he wouldn’t have got it.

It’s that simple

(09-25-2018, 12:59 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Had bell been cut after this year, before the 3rd day of he new league year, he wouldn’t have got it.

Bullshit. Show me where that’s written... that if they cut him after the end of the 2018 season, he gets nothing. The other 23 is guaranteed in 2019, it’s that simple.

(09-25-2018, 01:07 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Bullshit. Show me where that’s written... that if they cut him after the end of the 2018 season, he gets nothing. The other 23 is guaranteed in 2019, it’s that simple.

Look at my post that copied Ian rapaport. A very trusted nfl reporter. Maybe I do need those crayons Brad was talking about

“Since that initial report, there has been talk that the only truly guaranteed piece of the offer was a $10 million signing bonus and that the $33 million was a rolling guarantee. This would essentially mean that the rest of the money would become guaranteed after a certain date which is really to say it’s only sort of guaranteed.”

(09-24-2018, 10:55 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Release, rescind whatever. It achieves the same thing. I was using the same word as Catamandude whom I was also quoting. But if you think that pointing out insignificant differences in terminology somehow strengthens your weak argument, have at it.

And Bells position has been strengthened? Lol. Jeff Diamond completely disagrees and says the opposite. Bell is killing his value with his antics. But hey, what does he know? He’s only an ex VP and GM but I’m sure you think he’s a delusional homer. Oh, and btw, Bells contract offer had $33M in guaranteed money, not 10.

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/steelers-leveon-bell-holdout-fantasy-news-trade-rumors-update/1p34lelttymuo10kurrcc8c20i

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/author/218-jeff-diamond

You realize I can produce links to articles and quotes that agree with Bell's position from former and current players like Maurice Jones-Drew and Mike Wallace?

Bell's position HAS strengthened.  The Steelers have begun to cave by backing off their no trade stance.  Ergo, Bell's position has strengthened.  It's not even debatable.  Bell is winning the stand off.

(09-25-2018, 12:14 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Yeah, don’t get high

Bell kept changing the number that he was looking for, but I think we've found the real reason that he didn't accept that generous offer.    

He's probably thinking, "What good is it to be rich, if I can't even do what I really want to with the money?".

(09-25-2018, 08:26 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: Look at my post that copied Ian rapaport.  A very trusted nfl reporter.  Maybe I do need those crayons Brad was talking about

“Since that initial report, there has been talk that the only truly guaranteed piece of the offer was a $10 million signing bonus and that the $33 million was a rolling guarantee. This would essentially mean that the rest of the money would become guaranteed after a certain date which is really to say it’s only sort of guaranteed.”

Again, look at Todd Gurley's contract and tell me that it's not structured EXACTLY like the Lev Bell offer. Show me how it's different. There's a guarantee in the first year (signing bonus), then more guarantees after certain dates in later years. This is a rolling guarantee. Show me where it says that the Steelers would be able to release Bell at the end of 2018 and not pay him the remaining $23M.....and repeating Ian Rapaport saying "sort of guaranteed" doesn't cut it since I have showed you that Gurley's contract was structured exactly like Bells was. 

And considering that Ian Rapaport got his information from Bell's agent, this is nothing more than his spin on things designed to make the Steelers look bad in the eyes of the non thinking fans.


https://overthecap.com/player/todd-gurley/3858

(09-25-2018, 09:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: You realize I can produce links to articles and quotes that agree with Bell's position from former and current players like Maurice Jones-Drew and Mike Wallace?

Bell's position HAS strengthened.  The Steelers have begun to cave by backing off their no trade stance.  Ergo, Bell's position has strengthened.  It's not even debatable.  Bell is winning the stand off.

Imagine that, current and former players siding with Bell. Im stunned. Luckily MJD and Wallace don't offer contracts and sign paychecks, GM's do. So anything that they offer is of no substance to his actual value and merely just them cheerleading from the sidelines. 

And the Steelers changing their stance has strengthened his position how? He's still a toxic cancer and other GMs are noticing and that's going to hurt his value in the long run. 

(09-25-2018, 09:13 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Bell kept changing the number that he was looking for, but I think we've found the real reason that he didn't accept that generous offer.    

He's probably thinking, "What good is it to be rich, if I can't even do what I really want to with the money?".

You are one of the few Bengal fans who actually paid attention (unlike others on this thread), congrats. The guy has changed his demands more frequently than Burfict gets suspended. 

(09-25-2018, 09:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: You realize I can produce links to articles and quotes that agree with Bell's position from former and current players like Maurice Jones-Drew and Mike Wallace?

Bell's position HAS strengthened.  The Steelers have begun to cave by backing off their no trade stance.  Ergo, Bell's position has strengthened.  It's not even debatable.  Bell is winning the stand off.

I would say that both sides are losing. Bell is losing almost a million dollars a game. The Steelers tried to bluff Bell and he raised the stakes. It remains to be seen how this plays out but imo both will lose in this no win situation.

(09-25-2018, 09:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: You realize I can produce links to articles and quotes that agree with Bell's position from former and current players like Maurice Jones-Drew and Mike Wallace?

Bell's position HAS strengthened.  The Steelers have begun to cave by backing off their no trade stance.  Ergo, Bell's position has strengthened.  It's not even debatable.  Bell is winning the stand off.

I would say that both sides are losing. Bell is losing almost a million dollars a game. The Steelers tried to bluff Bell and he raised the stakes. It remains to be seen how this plays out but imo both will lose in this no win situation.

(09-25-2018, 03:29 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Again, look at Todd Gurley's contract and tell me that it's not structured EXACTLY like the Lev Bell offer. Show me how it's different. There's a guarantee in the first year (signing bonus), then more guarantees after certain dates in later years. This is a rolling guarantee. Show me where it says that the Steelers would be able to release Bell at the end of 2018 and not pay him the remaining $23M.....and repeating Ian Rapaport saying "sort of guaranteed" doesn't cut it since I have showed you that Gurley's contract was structured exactly like Bells was. 

And considering that Ian Rapaport got his information from Bell's agent, this is nothing more than his spin on things designed to make the Steelers look bad in the eyes of the non thinking fans.


https://overthecap.com/player/todd-gurley/3858



Imagine that, current and former players siding with Bell. Im stunned. Luckily MJD and Wallace don't offer contracts and sign paychecks, GM's do. So anything that they offer is of no substance to his actual value and merely just them cheerleading from the sidelines. 

And the Steelers changing their stance has strengthened his position how? He's still a toxic cancer and other GMs are noticing and that's going to hurt his value in the long run. 



You are one of the few Bengal fans who actually paid attention (unlike others on this thread), congrats. The guy has changed his demands more frequently than Burfict gets suspended. 

Using Gurley's contract as the template for Bell...

"Todd Gurley signed a four year, $57.5 million contract extension with the Rams on July 25, 2018. Details of the contract come from a report from Mike Florio of PFT. Gurley received $45 million in guarantees, $21.95 million of which is guaranteed at signing, including a $21 million signing bonus. On the 3rd day of the 2019 league year his base salary and 2020 3rd day of the league year roster bonus which total $12.55 million will become fully guaranteed. On the 3rd day of the 2020 league year the final $10.5 million in injury guarantees becomes fully guaranteed. This includes Gurley's 2021 3rd day of the league year roster bonus. On the 3rd day of the 2021 and 2022 league years Gurley will earn a non guaranteed $1 million roster bonus. Those same years Gurley will earn a $4 million reporting bonus. There are also $2.5 million in escalators that can increase the total contract value to $60 million if earned. Gurley's cap figure in 2018 increased by $2.8 million and his 2019 cap figure decreased by $430,000."


Out of Gurley's deal, only $21.95 mil was guaranteed AT SIGNING.  The only truly guaranteed money in his deal is his $21 mil signing bonus and $950k base salary for 2018.  If Gurley is released before the 3rd day of the 2019 league year, he doesn't see another dime.  The rest of the "guaranteed money" is roster bonuses and guaranteed salary triggered by his still being on the roster at specific dates.  Both the Steelers and Bell are going to play the PR game and twist the numbers to their position.  The Steelers are going to include the "rolling guarantees" into the "guaranteed money" to make it look like Bell was going to make a king's ransom up front, which he wasn't.  Bell is going to point out the paltry $10 mil signing bonus and may be leaving out a large guaranteed first year salary.  Unless any of us see the actual offer, it's all smoke and mirrors from both sides.


Imagine a former GM siding with the Steelers, lol!  Pot meet kettle.  Anything Diamond offers is also nothing more than cheerleading from the sidelines.  Current NFL GM's are reportedly divided on Bell's current situation hurting his value.  The opinion of a long retired former GM has no bearing on Bell's actual value.  That article also predates the Steelers backing off their no trade position.


However, if you want to take Jeff Diamond's word as the absolute gospel regarding Bell's value, then the longer the current situation persists, the more his value will decrease.  Therefore, the Steelers beginning to cave strengthens his position.  


The fact that Bell has continued to change his demands in public further illustrates how dumb the Steelers were to try and play a game of chicken with him this off-season instead of cutting their losses and trading him.

(09-25-2018, 11:34 PM)Whatever Wrote: Using Gurley's contract as the template for Bell...

"Todd Gurley signed a four year, $57.5 million contract extension with the Rams on July 25, 2018. Details of the contract come from a report from Mike Florio of PFT. Gurley received $45 million in guarantees, $21.95 million of which is guaranteed at signing, including a $21 million signing bonus. On the 3rd day of the 2019 league year his base salary and 2020 3rd day of the league year roster bonus which total $12.55 million will become fully guaranteed. On the 3rd day of the 2020 league year the final $10.5 million in injury guarantees becomes fully guaranteed. This includes Gurley's 2021 3rd day of the league year roster bonus. On the 3rd day of the 2021 and 2022 league years Gurley will earn a non guaranteed $1 million roster bonus. Those same years Gurley will earn a $4 million reporting bonus. There are also $2.5 million in escalators that can increase the total contract value to $60 million if earned. Gurley's cap figure in 2018 increased by $2.8 million and his 2019 cap figure decreased by $430,000."


Out of Gurley's deal, only $21.95 mil was guaranteed AT SIGNING.  The only truly guaranteed money in his deal is his $21 mil signing bonus and $950k base salary for 2018.  If Gurley is released before the 3rd day of the 2019 league year, he doesn't see another dime.  The rest of the "guaranteed money" is roster bonuses and guaranteed salary triggered by his still being on the roster at specific dates.  Both the Steelers and Bell are going to play the PR game and twist the numbers to their position.  The Steelers are going to include the "rolling guarantees" into the "guaranteed money" to make it look like Bell was going to make a king's ransom up front, which he wasn't.  Bell is going to point out the paltry $10 mil signing bonus and may be leaving out a large guaranteed first year salary.  Unless any of us see the actual offer, it's all smoke and mirrors from both sides.


Imagine a former GM siding with the Steelers, lol!  Pot meet kettle.  Anything Diamond offers is also nothing more than cheerleading from the sidelines.  Current NFL GM's are reportedly divided on Bell's current situation hurting his value.  The opinion of a long retired former GM has no bearing on Bell's actual value.  That article also predates the Steelers backing off their no trade position.


However, if you want to take Jeff Diamond's word as the absolute gospel regarding Bell's value, then the longer the current situation persists, the more his value will decrease.  Therefore, the Steelers beginning to cave strengthens his position.  


The fact that Bell has continued to change his demands in public further illustrates how dumb the Steelers were to try and play a game of chicken with him this off-season instead of cutting their losses and trading him.

Gurleys contract is being universally reported as $45M guaranteed. If that’s the case, then Bells contract is $33M guaranteed. If you want insist that Bell was only offered $10M guaranteed, then fine, Gurley only got $21M guaranteed. Regardless the difference in guaranteed money is still the same. The fact still remains that Bell got far and away the best deal offered to a RB at the time of the offer, relative to current RB values, and that’s the whole point. It was a great offer.

Regarding Jeff Diamond, again being an ex GM, his opinion of Bellls value carries 1,000 times more weight than two players since, you know, GMs sign the checks. I have not seen any articles from current or former GM’s who say that Bells antics aren’t hurting and/or are helping his value. Maybe you could link those for me and I’ll reconsider?

Anyone else see the Jets are interested in a trade for Bell?  Seems I saw it yesterday, but haven't seen anything more about it.

(09-26-2018, 02:41 PM)Wyche Wrote: Anyone else see the Jets are interested in a trade for Bell?  Seems I saw it yesterday, but haven't seen anything more about it.

This won't happen. Bell is at war with the Steelers FO. He won't agree to any trade that lets them off the hook. Stay tuned for more drama.