So Just read an awesome article on the Cincy Enq website.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Its written that the Bengals tried to reach a deal with Zeitler and Iloka. They couldn't come to a deal. They plan to try again after the season is over.

The interesting note was that Dre K. Told the Bengals earlier this summer when they exercised the 5th year option that he would wait until after the season was over to talk Contracts.

It looks like the Front Office was trying hard to get the other two done. Zeitler and Iloka.

I fear Iloka is going to be to expensive after this year.

Now that AJ is signed. I honestly think they Franchise Tag Iloka.
With the Franchise tag for safety being 9 mil and the transition tag being 8 mil. I think they give Iloka the Transition tag. Make another team give him an offer. If we don't match we get at least one first round pick

They give the Franchise tag to Zeitler.

Tag#s for 2015
Via Albert Breer of the NFL Network, the projections for the franchise tags are in:

Quarterbacks: $18.544 million
Running backs: $10.951 million
Wide receivers: $12.823 million
Tight ends: $8.347 million
Offensive linemen: $12.943 million
Defensive tackles: $11.193 million
Defensive ends: $14.813 million
Linebackers: $13.195 million
Cornerbacks: $13.075 million
Kickers/punters: $4.126 million.

Safeties: $9.618 million


1st round tender tag is these

Quarterbacks: $16.155 million
Running backs: $9.037 million
Wide receivers: $10.971 million
Tight ends: $7.071 million
Offensive linemen: $11.096 million
Defensive tackles: $9.314 million
Defensive ends: $11.958 million
Linebackers: $11.058 million
Cornerbacks: $11.082 million
Kickers/punters: $3.716 million.

Safeties: $8.263 million


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

I don't understand why they would lump all OL into one tag class.  They break the secondary into Corners and Safeties, the DL into Ends and Tackles.  Why not do the same for the OL?  Tackles and Guards are a bit different in pay.

(09-11-2015, 06:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't understand why they would lump all OL into one tag class.  They break the secondary into Corners and Safeties, the DL into Ends and Tackles.  Why not do the same for the OL?  Tackles and Guards are a bit different in pay.

Yeah I tried to figure that out before. 
I think that was the same thing When Alex Mack was Franchise tagged. The issue came up there. Cause the tag should have been cheaper.

(09-11-2015, 06:00 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I don't understand why they would lump all OL into one tag class.  They break the secondary into Corners and Safeties, the DL into Ends and Tackles.  Why not do the same for the OL?  Tackles and Guards are a bit different in pay.

And the reason that the Bengals will not use the FT on Zeitler...They will not pay 12 mil to a guard...  Especially when Boling just got 5 or 6 mil this past year..They will never pay almost double the going rate for a top 10 guard...Boling is number 9 at 5.1 million

(09-11-2015, 05:32 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: So Just read an awesome article on the Cincy Enq website.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Its written that the Bengals tried to reach a deal with Zeitler and Iloka. They couldn't come to a deal. They plan to try again after the season is over.

The interesting note was that Dre K. Told the Bengals earlier this summer when they exercised the 5th year option that he would wait until after the season was over to talk Contracts.

It looks like the Front Office was trying hard to get the other two done. Zeitler and Iloka.

I fear Iloka is going to be to expensive after this year.

Now that AJ is signed. I honestly think they Franchise Tag Iloka.
With the Franchise tag for safety being 9 mil and the transition tag being 8 mil. I think they give Iloka the Transition tag. Make another team give him an offer. If we don't match we get at least one first round pick

They give the Franchise tag to Zeitler.

Tag#s for 2015
Via Albert Breer of the NFL Network, the projections for the franchise tags are in:

Quarterbacks: $18.544 million
Running backs: $10.951 million
Wide receivers: $12.823 million
Tight ends: $8.347 million
Offensive linemen: $12.943 million
Defensive tackles: $11.193 million
Defensive ends: $14.813 million
Linebackers: $13.195 million
Cornerbacks: $13.075 million
Kickers/punters: $4.126 million.

Safeties: $9.618 million


1st round tender tag is these

Quarterbacks: $16.155 million
Running backs: $9.037 million
Wide receivers: $10.971 million
Tight ends: $7.071 million
Offensive linemen: $11.096 million
Defensive tackles: $9.314 million
Defensive ends: $11.958 million
Linebackers: $11.058 million
Cornerbacks: $11.082 million
Kickers/punters: $3.716 million.

Safeties: $8.263 million


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

This is all great stuff.  One of the things that would make a big difference to distinguish between Guards and Tackles.  I would imagine the Guard number would be well below $10 million with the tackle number well above $12 million. 

I hope Iloka kills it this year and makes a ton of money....even if that means losing him.  I love how he worked and developed from a 5th round pick out of Boise State to one of the best safeties in the league.  If George has a big year, the Bengals might be going very far. 

And, if he DOES get big money on the FA market, he might turn in to a third round compensatory pick the following year.  I know that he would be great to keep, but with the deals ahead for Dre, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, etc. it might not work out.

(09-11-2015, 06:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is all great stuff.  One of the things that would make a big difference to distinguish between Guards and Tackles.  I would imagine the Guard number would be well below $10 million with the tackle number well above $12 million. 

I hope Iloka kills it this year and makes a ton of money....even if that means losing him.  I love how he worked and developed from a 5th round pick out of Boise State to one of the best safeties in the league.  If George has a big year, the Bengals might be going very far. 

And, if he DOES get big money on the FA market, he might turn in to a third round compensatory pick the following year.  I know that he would be great to keep, but with the deals ahead for Dre, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, etc. it might not work out.

There is no distinction between the guards and tackles.


I think Iloka is more important than Jones or Dre possibly even Ziegler. Finding an amazing Safety like Iloka has developed into is hard. He is only 25.

(09-11-2015, 06:16 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: This is all great stuff.  One of the things that would make a big difference to distinguish between Guards and Tackles.  I would imagine the Guard number would be well below $10 million with the tackle number well above $12 million. 

I hope Iloka kills it this year and makes a ton of money....even if that means losing him.  I love how he worked and developed from a 5th round pick out of Boise State to one of the best safeties in the league.  If George has a big year, the Bengals might be going very far. 

And, if he DOES get big money on the FA market, he might turn in to a third round compensatory pick the following year.  I know that he would be great to keep, but with the deals ahead for Dre, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, etc. it might not work out.

I get wanting him to kill it but why would you be OK with him leaving? He should be a Bengal for a long time no excuse for not signing him long term.

(09-11-2015, 05:32 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: So Just read an awesome article on the Cincy Enq website.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Its written that the Bengals tried to reach a deal with Zeitler and Iloka. They couldn't come to a deal. They plan to try again after the season is over.

The interesting note was that Dre K. Told the Bengals earlier this summer when they exercised the 5th year option that he would wait until after the season was over to talk Contracts.

It looks like the Front Office was trying hard to get the other two done. Zeitler and Iloka.

I fear Iloka is going to be to expensive after this year.

Now that AJ is signed. I honestly think they Franchise Tag Iloka.
With the Franchise tag for safety being 9 mil and the transition tag being 8 mil. I think they give Iloka the Transition tag. Make another team give him an offer. If we don't match we get at least one first round pick

They give the Franchise tag to Zeitler.

Tag#s for 2015
Via Albert Breer of the NFL Network, the projections for the franchise tags are in:

Quarterbacks: $18.544 million
Running backs: $10.951 million
Wide receivers: $12.823 million
Tight ends: $8.347 million
Offensive linemen: $12.943 million
Defensive tackles: $11.193 million
Defensive ends: $14.813 million
Linebackers: $13.195 million
Cornerbacks: $13.075 million
Kickers/punters: $4.126 million.

Safeties: $9.618 million


1st round tender tag is these

Quarterbacks: $16.155 million
Running backs: $9.037 million
Wide receivers: $10.971 million
Tight ends: $7.071 million
Offensive linemen: $11.096 million
Defensive tackles: $9.314 million
Defensive ends: $11.958 million
Linebackers: $11.058 million
Cornerbacks: $11.082 million
Kickers/punters: $3.716 million.

Safeties: $8.263 million


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Zeitler and Dre K are under contract through 2016, thanks to their 5th year options. Really no need to even worry about extending them this year. All the attention of the FO should be on Iloka or Nelson and MLJ or Sanu.

(09-11-2015, 06:57 PM)Yojimbo Wrote: Zeitler and Dre K are under contract through 2016, thanks to their 5th year options. Really no need to even worry about extending them this year. All the attention of the FO should be on Iloka or Nelson and MLJ or Sanu.

Exactly. I don't know why people are worried about Zeitler and Kirkpatrick.

Iloka and the rest of the secondary, along with the wide receivers and offensive tackles should be the focus.

Illoka will have a great year. Would have been good to settle up with him prior to the start of the season. He will be rightfully looking for top 5 money once the season is done.

(09-11-2015, 06:20 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: There is no distinction between the guards and tackles.


I think Iloka is more important than Jones or Dre possibly even Ziegler. Finding an amazing Safety like Iloka has developed into is hard. He is only 25.

That's odd.  They distinguish between DTs and DEs.....and between WR and TE.  Weird.  That makes it that much less likely that they would franchise him. 

It is a very tough call.  I really like him, too, but there is only so much cap space to go around.  You could be right that MLJ wouldn't be signed if he commands bigger money.  All the more reason they should have drafted a WR this year earlier than round 7. 

(09-11-2015, 06:52 PM)J24 Wrote: I get wanting him to kill it but why would you be OK with him leaving? He should be a Bengal for a long time no excuse for not signing him long term.

I mentioned the very high compensatory pick, and there is simply not enough cap space to sign every player.  Would you rather have him over Dre Kirkpatrick?  Zeitler?  Marvin Jones?  It is a very tough call. 

Don't misinterpret what I am saying.  I really like him, but I just don't know if they can afford to keep him.  If he has a great season, there could be someone willing to pay him ridiculous money and I don't see the Bengals offering that to a safety. 

(09-11-2015, 11:28 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I mentioned the very high compensatory pick, and there is simply not enough cap space to sign every player.  Would you rather have him over Dre Kirkpatrick?  Zeitler?  Marvin Jones?  It is a very tough call. 

Don't misinterpret what I am saying.  I really like him, but I just don't know if they can afford to keep him.  If he has a great season, there could be someone willing to pay him ridiculous money and I don't see the Bengals offering that to a safety. 

Yes I would rather have Iloka then those guys.

Great post Lqhybrid25., good thread overall by those involved.  I really like thinking about future finances the way this team is building, they're very responsible.  I'll agree that Iloka seems like a good fit for either tag as he's poised for another good year and will be paid as a top safety.  There's a lot of hope but also uncertainty in the secondary, so locking him up is a need. I think the future will break down to a lot of choices between two players:

T- Whitworth/Smith:  Spazz70 had a solid point on Zeitler.  Because they may not spend top dollar on a top guard (see Steinbach), Whitworth signing a 3 year extension and being moved inside to guard in a year is still a better financial fit than what could be a top 5 guard deal.  If someone overpays Whit longterm out of need, don't rule out Andre returning especially since the young tackles may not see the field much this year.  I think it'll be Whit at LT, Ogbuehi at RT, Fisher as a super sub until they lose Zeitler.
Prediction: Whitworth signs a 3 year deal at the 11th hour before FA.

WR- Jones/Sanu:  I think Marvin is primed for a huge year, I want him signed long term.  The problem is, it may be another TJ situation where he gets a huge deal as a #1 elsewhere.  Sanu is NOT on his level, but will likely be half the price. They likely take a deep ball WR threat in the top 3 rounds rather than pay Marvin close to 10M/yr.  
Prediction: Sanu signs a 4 year deal during FA. 

S-  Nelson/Hall:  Yes, by the end of the year we could see a lot more of Leon at safety than corner, provided the young guys hold up.  Nelson will be 32 but someone will pay him top 10 money for a few years.  I think both hit the market, and when Leon doesn't get the offers at corner that he thinks he will see, they retain him for less than what Nelson would cost.  The extra year and guaranteed money could be the difference.
Prediction: Hall at safety for a 2 year deal during FA. 

(09-11-2015, 05:32 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: So Just read an awesome article on the Cincy Enq website.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Its written that the Bengals tried to reach a deal with Zeitler and Iloka. They couldn't come to a deal. They plan to try again after the season is over.

The interesting note was that Dre K. Told the Bengals earlier this summer when they exercised the 5th year option that he would wait until after the season was over to talk Contracts.

It looks like the Front Office was trying hard to get the other two done. Zeitler and Iloka.

I fear Iloka is going to be to expensive after this year.

Now that AJ is signed. I honestly think they Franchise Tag Iloka.
With the Franchise tag for safety being 9 mil and the transition tag being 8 mil. I think they give Iloka the Transition tag. Make another team give him an offer. If we don't match we get at least one first round pick

They give the Franchise tag to Zeitler.

Tag#s for 2015
Via Albert Breer of the NFL Network, the projections for the franchise tags are in:

Quarterbacks: $18.544 million
Running backs: $10.951 million
Wide receivers: $12.823 million
Tight ends: $8.347 million
Offensive linemen: $12.943 million
Defensive tackles: $11.193 million
Defensive ends: $14.813 million
Linebackers: $13.195 million
Cornerbacks: $13.075 million
Kickers/punters: $4.126 million.

Safeties: $9.618 million


1st round tender tag is these

Quarterbacks: $16.155 million
Running backs: $9.037 million
Wide receivers: $10.971 million
Tight ends: $7.071 million
Offensive linemen: $11.096 million
Defensive tackles: $9.314 million
Defensive ends: $11.958 million
Linebackers: $11.058 million
Cornerbacks: $11.082 million
Kickers/punters: $3.716 million.

Safeties: $8.263 million


http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2015/09/11/cincinnati-bengals-safety-george-iloka-kevin-zeitler-no-extension/72039366/

Good thread and good info.

As others, I am surprised OL is not broken down by position as Tackles are paid much higher than guards.

I am also shocked running back is so high as these numbers come from the top 5 paid at the position. I think Peterson just revised his contract downward so RB may end up lower in 2016 (not that it matters to us yet).

As for Zeitler, I agree we won't pay top 5 OT money (that is what it is) to a guard, but we do have under contract in 2016 already so he is not a priority. I was very surprised we grabbed to OL at 1 and 2 in the draft this year. Maybe, the plan all along was to still make signing Smith a priority and Fisher was drafted to take Zeitler's spot if we can't lock him up long term.

This I know, as we look at the contract situation and guys under contract on the OL, the Bengals FO gave themselves many options by drafting two stud OL this year. It is another example of the Bengals FO looking short term (Fisher to help us in 2015) and 2 OT/OL to help us long term. I don't see Whittworth leaving either so both of them could end up backup OT's and starting or backup guards in the next few years which is a great problem to have in my opinion. You win in the trenches.

(09-12-2015, 05:32 AM)phil413 Wrote: Great post Lqhybrid25., good thread overall by those involved.  I really like thinking about future finances the way this team is building, they're very responsible.  I'll agree that Iloka seems like a good fit for either tag as he's poised for another good year and will be paid as a top safety.  There's a lot of hope but also uncertainty in the secondary, so locking him up is a need. I think the future will break down to a lot of choices between two players:

T- Whitworth/Smith:  Spazz70 had a solid point on Zeitler.  Because they may not spend top dollar on a top guard (see Steinbach), Whitworth signing a 3 year extension and being moved inside to guard in a year is still a better financial fit than what could be a top 5 guard deal.  If someone overpays Whit longterm out of need, don't rule out Andre returning especially since the young tackles may not see the field much this year.  I think it'll be Whit at LT, Ogbuehi at RT, Fisher as a super sub until they lose Zeitler.
Prediction: Whitworth signs a 3 year deal at the 11th hour before FA.

WR- Jones/Sanu:  I think Marvin is primed for a huge year, I want him signed long term.  The problem is, it may be another TJ situation where he gets a huge deal as a #1 elsewhere.  Sanu is NOT on his level, but will likely be half the price. They likely take a deep ball WR threat in the top 3 rounds rather than pay Marvin close to 10M/yr.  
Prediction: Sanu signs a 4 year deal during FA. 

S-  Nelson/Hall:  Yes, by the end of the year we could see a lot more of Leon at safety than corner, provided the young guys hold up.  Nelson will be 32 but someone will pay him top 10 money for a few years.  I think both hit the market, and when Leon doesn't get the offers at corner that he thinks he will see, they retain him for less than what Nelson would cost.  The extra year and guaranteed money could be the difference.
Prediction: Hall at safety for a 2 year deal during FA. 

Really, really good post.

The point of Andre returning with Whit to Guard is a solid one.  I think all the money is on Ogbuehi.  He has to be able to start as a tackle next season.  That could allow Whit to move to guard as you said, but they would still need another tackle and I am not sure based on the early returns from Fisher.  The other possibility is you pay Zeitler and he moves to RT.  He is probably the most capable guy left on the roster.  Then you might be able to draft a guard that can start next year.

I think you nailed it with MLJ.  He, and his agent, should realize that a lot of his success would come from AJ drawing double teams on the other side.  That being said, it won't stop a team like the Browns from offering him a crapload of money.  I completely agree that an early round WR will be on the draft board next year (probably should have been this year).  Sanu I see as more expendable.  I heard a couple guys on the radio say that if Burkhead played in New England, he would have 85 receptions.  That might be a stretch, but I love him in the slot.  Sanu is a great gadget for an end-around where he throws the ball, but he simply didn't show the reliability in the slot receiver position.  I think he led the league in drops.  If that doesn't improve dramatically, he is gone. 

I almost forgot about the contract of Hall being off the books for next season.  He could be signed to a more realistic number and that money that becomes freed up go to Iloka.  I'm not sure if Smith will be ready to fill in for Nelson, but I like what we saw in very limited action this preseason. 

Based on all that, and the hopeful 100% return of Burfict, I could see the biggest needs going in to next season as Guard, WR, Safety, and LB.  (in no particular order).

(09-11-2015, 06:20 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: There is no distinction between the guards and tackles.


I think Iloka is more important than Jones or Dre possibly even Ziegler. Finding an amazing Safety like Iloka has developed into is hard. He is only 25.

It probably isn't that hard if you draft one in the first round.

Iloka and Kirkpatrick should be the dudes we look at first, number one being Iloka.

George could be one of the best Free Safeties in the league with his ability to cover and hit.

Hit him with a big contract before everyone else takes notice.

(09-12-2015, 11:23 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: It probably isn't that hard if you draft one in the first round.

Nothing's a guarantee, depends on the class and value as well. Most of the time it's either a really good or crappy crop of safeties.

Really don't want to be drafting one in the first when there are plenty of other positions we would better to address there.