(11-09-2018, 01:51 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Since Mike Brown became the de facto GM...the Steelers have been to the Playoffs 16 seasons. They played in 4 Super Bowls and won 2. They've appeared in 9 Conference Championship games.

The Bengals have yet to win a single playoff game.


I'd say that the Steelers have been plain better than the Bengals for longer than a few seasons.

And these are the only stats that matter

(11-09-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to PFF from '07 through '15 the Bengals O-line was the best in the league at pass blocking.




In 2009 our opening day O-line featured 3 starters (Roland, Livings, Cook) who were undrafted free agents with a combined 13 games played in the NFL (3 starts).  Luckily PA was able to coach up a player who had been cut by two teams in 2 years (Mathis) and a second year 4th round pick (Collins).

I am sure that is exactly what Paul asked for

Oh there was a time when we had good offensive lines. Anderson, Jones, Steinback were high picks.

(11-09-2018, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You know...if we can win 9-10 games this year I look at it like a bonus as we're a really young team and if we can continue to upgrade the offensive line and LB spots...I think next year could be our year too.

By next year, we will only be a player or two away...

(11-09-2018, 02:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Oh there was a time when we had good offensive lines. Anderson, Jones, Steinback were high picks.

But we went 18 years ('97-'14) only taking 6 O-linemen in our 63 selections in the first three rounds of the draft.  Alexander was given less talent to work with than any other O-line coach in the league.

(11-09-2018, 02:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think the reason they beat us is 3 things:

1: Their ownership values offensive line. (See money invested in their line.)
2: They can always run the ball against us and we can't run against them.
3: Their coaches and ownership don't accept mediocrity from the players.

Yup,

And they know all they have to do is stay calm, push a couple buttons here and there and we'll eventually implode.

We're never going to beat the Steelers playing "their game". ML has to step out of the box and quit playing them not to lose style. It's not about going for it on 4th down and fake punts and trickery.

They have to come out and play balls to the wall, every drive is a must score last second make or break, hell wouldn't have it, let it all hang out. You're not going to beat them timid, keep it close to the vest style.

And the Bengals have to ignore all the talk and taunting, blinders on. Give it to them hard - between the whistles !

(11-09-2018, 12:33 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: It pains me to say it, but the 'hate' we have for the Steelers is misplaced. We should hate Mike Brown, the Steelers do an excellent job of trying to win a championship every year, we do not. So the typical Bengal fan is really jealous of their success and the lack of ours. 

Don't blame the refs, or the Steelers or the league. Put the blame where it belongs. 

BTW, even as a Canadian, thank you for your service. I just watched the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War and it is a shame that the soldiers were often blamed for the actions of the government and a double shame on how the vets have been treated afterwords. 

All the best to you Sir. 

Disagree. I personally "hate" the Steelers because they constantly play dirty, and it is across many players of the team. It's never been just one particular individual (like a lot of people view Burfict).
I don't "hate" the Patriots but I hate the Steelers because of this reason.

(11-09-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According to PFF from '07 through '15 the Bengals O-line was the best in the league at pass blocking.




In 2009 our opening day O-line featured 3 starters (Roland, Livings, Cook) who were undrafted free agents with a combined 13 games played in the NFL (3 starts).  Luckily PA was able to coach up a player who had been cut by two teams in 2 years (Mathis) and a second year 4th round pick (Collins).

I am sure that is exactly what Paul asked for

Fred I'm not really interested in what the stats say. Fact is we haven't been good enough when it counts.

Results are what matters ! The Steelers and many others have trophy cases with Lombardi's AFC/NFC Championships

Our trophy case has a "well we were the best pass pro team in the league" gold star 

(11-09-2018, 01:37 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Hart has been an improvement, but still isn't the long-term fix we need (something I think you recognize too). Once he is replaced, I don't even want him as a backup if at all possible. I'm not even sure Glenn is better than a good backup T, which may be overly harsh to say. But Hell, when the entire unit isn't as good as needed, everything is subject for improvement. Upgrades at backups across the board are needed imo, but that's probably being greedy. Then again, you usually won't get it unless you ask for it.   

The LB group needs new leadership ala what Frank Pollack has done for the Oline. Give me a LB coach version of Pollack, and let him sort out personnel, and see where it all lands after that.  Whether that means Burfict or Brown remains is something I really don't care to invest time in tbh. What once was or could have been doesn't matter. We need production now. Give us modern day schemes with competent players who consistently execute what they're being coached, and move on to the next area of need.

You said a mouthful right there.  Yes please, on all accounts.

(11-09-2018, 02:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Fred I'm not really interested in what the stats say. Fact is we haven't been good enough when it counts.

Results are what matters ! The Steelers and many others have trophy cases with Lombardi's AFC/NFC Championships

Our trophy case has a "well we were the best pass pro team in the league" gold star 

In reality, the stats say that we can't run the ball effectively the last decade or so, who was the run game coordinator?  We had two really good units:  Willie, Bobbie, Richie, Steiny, and Levi (who couldn't succeed with THAT?)/ Whit, Boling, Blodine (ugh), Zeitler, Big Dre.  

That first unit was an absolute beast.  The second one had a glaring hole (that the stubborn fool wouldn't replace), but was otherwise solid to great across the board.  

2009 saw a line that featured unbalanced sets a disproportionate amount of times.

Otherwise? The lines have been sieves over a QUARTER OF A CENTURY.

One other thing to note, with the arrival of Jay Gruden and Andy Dalton, the offense went from an Air Coryell type vertical offense to a quick strike WCO style.....which emphasizes getting the ball out quickly on most plays.  That helps your line not have to hold blocks as long as they did when Palmer was here. That helps their numbers some, saying otherwise is just not watching the games and looking only at numbers. Carson really only had the benefit of about 3 good years of protection.

EDIT: We're running the ball more effectively this season, as the RBs' YPC attest to......what has changed there?

(11-09-2018, 01:58 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I hear ya, but the guy seems to only bring up retirement after he loses a game and throws more than 2 INTs, and so on.  He's also not getting as banged up as he used to.  My last hope the Steelers would get rid of him died when I thought they might trade him to the Raiders following that whole sexual assault two-fer.

They get an injury to that O-line...

(11-09-2018, 02:01 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: You know...if we can win 9-10 games this year I look at it like a bonus as we're a really young team and if we can continue to upgrade the offensive line and LB spots...I think next year could be our year too.

That is what i am thinking now as well. If we can just get somewhat better on Defense and our young players
continue to grow all the while adding to the spots you speak of and adding a new DC and LB coach and we will
be looking really good next season.

I was being unrealistic i think earlier this year expecting too much.

(11-09-2018, 02:02 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You see Mccaffrey get tackled by the facemask on that first TD, how the hell do they miss that call ? 

Yes i saw that.

Thought the bias towards the Stealers wasn't as bad earlier this year then this game brought it all back.

Just have to call it fair is all i ask, the Panthers should be pissed even if they played like shit.

McCaffrey should be really PO'ed, he played his ass off.

(11-09-2018, 02:42 PM)Wyche Wrote: You said a mouthful right there.  Yes please, on all accounts.

If it's me, I target Daryl Williams or Rob Havenstein (likely more expensive but even better) as my top priority FA and look to draft a mid-round OT to be a backup.

I also look for an off-ball LB in FA that would be in the $5-8 mill a year range. This LB needs to be fluid enough to handle coverage duties effectively.

Based on how FA goes, I then look to prioritize RG and/or TE in the first two days of the draft.

Agreed. And Bell is about to come back, so the NFL has some odd fairy tale story of how Ben R. rode off into the sunset. The league is nothing without its "stories". Bengals story is getting wild card and losing in the 1st round again. I like Andy but he's not the one to get us there, everything else has to fall in place and our Defense is putrid.

(11-09-2018, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If it's me, I target Daryl Williams or Rob Havenstein (likely more expensive but even better) as my top priority FA and look to draft a mid-round OT to be a backup.

I also look for an off-ball LB in FA that would be in the $5-8 mill a year range. This LB needs to be fluid enough to handle coverage duties effectively.

Based on how FA goes, I then look to prioritize RG and/or TE in the first two days of the draft.

Would love any of all of that.  Can you go spike Mikey's drink when it comes time to sign/draft and take over his rolodex and word processor and get that done?

(11-09-2018, 01:37 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Hart has been an improvement, but still isn't the long-term fix we need (something I think you recognize too). Once he is replaced, I don't even want him as a backup if at all possible. I'm not even sure Glenn is better than a good backup T, which may be overly harsh to say. But Hell, when the entire unit isn't as good as needed, everything is subject for improvement. Upgrades at backups across the board are needed imo, but that's probably being greedy. Then again, you usually won't get it unless you ask for it.   

The LB group needs new leadership ala what Frank Pollack has done for the Oline. Give me a LB coach version of Pollack, and let him sort out personnel, and see where it all lands after that.  Whether that means Burfict or Brown remains is something I really don't care to invest time in tbh. What once was or could have been doesn't matter. We need production now. Give us modern day schemes with competent players who consistently execute what they're being coached, and move on to the next area of need.

Yup,

We need at least 2 starting quality coverage LBers on this team. I'm not sure there's even 1 on the current roster ? Evans perhaps ? I'm not even sure Vigil is anything more than a backup on a lot of teams ? Burfict ??? I just don't know

Same thing on Oline, whether it's starting LT and RG and move Glenn to RT ? Or starting RT and RG ? But we need at least 2 starters.

Throw in the other needs and there's no way it can be fixed with draft alone !

Real free agents are a must

With the talent they have, they should be in AFC title game most every year.

(11-09-2018, 03:12 PM)Wyche Wrote: Would love any of all of that.  Can you go spike Mikey's drink when it comes time to sign/draft and take over his rolodex and word processor and get that done?

Somebody get ahold of Mikey on his flip phone, or try his pager ?

(11-09-2018, 03:04 PM)ochocincos Wrote: If it's me, I target Daryl Williams or Rob Havenstein (likely more expensive but even better) as my top priority FA and look to draft a mid-round OT to be a backup.

I also look for an off-ball LB in FA that would be in the $5-8 mill a year range. This LB needs to be fluid enough to handle coverage duties effectively.

Based on how FA goes, I then look to prioritize RG and/or TE in the first two days of the draft.

Generally speaking, this is the direction we need to see them head toward. It will take a combination of a committed participation in free agency plus a successful draft. And that might still be short of the goal of getting it done next off season. Had we seen this in recent years though, we might not be having such discussions. Why this team hangs on to 3rd and 4th year players (and coaches) while they produce next to nothing is beyond me. It has become less than satisfying to think/say that it's all on Mike Brown or Marvin, especially if it's 100% true. We're stymied as fans, I guess. 

(11-09-2018, 01:37 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Hart has been an improvement, but still isn't the long-term fix we need (something I think you recognize too). Once he is replaced, I don't even want him as a backup if at all possible. I'm not even sure Glenn is better than a good backup T, which may be overly harsh to say. But Hell, when the entire unit isn't as good as needed, everything is subject for improvement. Upgrades at backups across the board are needed imo, but that's probably being greedy. Then again, you usually won't get it unless you ask for it.   

The LB group needs new leadership ala what Frank Pollack has done for the Oline. Give me a LB coach version of Pollack, and let him sort out personnel, and see where it all lands after that.  Whether that means Burfict or Brown remains is something I really don't care to invest time in tbh. What once was or could have been doesn't matter. We need production now. Give us modern day schemes with competent players who consistently execute what they're being coached, and move on to the next area of need.

This is so spot on! The position coaches on D are not very good, especially at LB. I know we can say Haslet hasn't had the talent, but these guys were studs in college and now it looks like they have never played LB before. Evans was a freak at OU, same with Vigil. 

I agree we need help on the o-line and that will take sometime, but I think our record would be way better if we had a competent defense.

(11-09-2018, 03:22 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Somebody get ahold of Mikey on his flip phone, or try his pager ?

I think his bag phone is out right now....best bet is prolly the pager.

(11-09-2018, 11:27 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: HOF QB’s don’t grow on trees. We just have to wait the fat bastard out.

Yep.  They caught lightning in a bottle with Ben.  They were pretty mediocre before he came along.
Remember Kordell Stewart and Tommy Maddox?