I did some research on qbs that were backups that became starters and good success and the list is quite long. This debunks the theory " well!! Well!! If he was any good he'd be starting!!", or " well!! Well!! Every team passed on him in the draft!!".

Qbs that were backups

Tom Brady- had to take an injury from bledsoe to play him
Kurt Warner- bagging groceries at one point
Nick Foles- nobody knew of him when he took over for vick
Brett Favre- got released from Atl and was 2nd string for the pack.
Randall Cunningham- vikings afc championship 35 years old
Frank Reich- played in a playoff game and blew them out
Steve Young- had to wait 4 years for his opportunity because of injury
Jeff Garcia- i remember him winning a playoff game in mid 2000s
Jake Delhomme- took an injury to play went on to the superbowl to barely lose
Ken Stabler- Oakland raiders, had to wait a long time to get a opportunity then was qb for 6 years.
Chad Pennington- won a playoff game
Jim Plunket- 2 superbowl wins
Doug Williams- redskins , started 2 regular season games and lost but won every playoff game and beat Elway in the SB
Doug Flutie - came in and went to the playoffs
Tim Tebow - came in later in the season.
Trent Dilfer - came in on marvins 2000 ravens team mid season, went to the superbowl.

The point im trying to make is our fanbase always dogs the backup qb, like a driskall or Mccaron or anyone else saying if they were that good they would be starting, nope wrong proven by history. A qb really needs a full season to be evaluated snd that might even be a fluke our fanbase automatically gave dalton 3 years from jump street. and depending on draft status qbs might get no opportunity like a higher guy. It actually seems like the dalton die hards would rather lose with dalton then to win with anyone else. And im not saying Dalton is the main problem but in a game like yesterday where the offense was horrid, you can see where he lacks talent that we might need. Our fanbase needs to be more open minded when it comes to the Qb spot. No its not easy to find a good qb. But you got to atleast scout and try to be better if need be.

Andy and Marvin should have been ran out years ago. We had a replacement for Marvin, but let Mike Zimmer leave. We had Andy's replacement with McCarron. Mike Brown doesn't give a shit if the Bengals win 15 games, or just one.

This is bullshit.

Nobody wants to "lose with.Dalton".

This just sounds like another thump your chest about the unknown and try to act like you're right and everyone else is blind type of thread.

And for what it's worth I've seen far more impressive play out of Driskle than McCarron... but that's usually in garbage time.

AJ Mac has looked like crap and can't stay healthy anyway.

You'd be watching his backup play because he's made of glass.

Ummm you forgot Ben Roethelisberger only became a starter because Tommy Maddox was injured.

Are we having this conversation because Jeff Driskel scored a TD in garbage time against a team that already had the win locked up?

First, everyone needs to pick a narrative and stay with it. Either the loss was on Andy yesterday because Andy or missing our top offensive weapon hurt and the other receivers didn't step up in his place. I know, I know, it obviously can't be the second one because that would take some heat off of Andy.

Next, as someone who has been labeled as "Andy's Army", a "Dalton lover", a "Dalton apologist", and whatever other stupid names get made up, I have no problem moving on from Dalton. I just want it to be an upgrade or at least have the appearance of upgrade. Not just get rid of Dalton for the sake of getting rid of him. Driskel has played well in the preseason against 3rd stringers and has played well in garbage time when the outcome of the game was already decided. That's just not enough for me to proclaim Driskel should be the starter. Though Bengals fan hate their QB, he's actually played well over the course of his career. He's a better than average QB. So yeah, before we toss him in the trash pile, I'd like to think it's for someone who would be an upgrade and not just because the next QB isn't Andy Dalton.

Somehow this team has had success with Andy. Though we have many fans that seem to think he's a scrub, these last 8 years have produced the most success in franchise history. No, they haven't won a playoff game but this team has won. Fans don't just wallow in pity because they're Bengals fans now, they wallow in pity because they don't win playoff games. This is a franchise where the potential to make the playoffs was exciting. Now, it's expected. Winning has certainly became a lot more common these last 8 years. Andy Dalton is a contributor to that success. A pretty big one too.

Finally, a lot of fans just never like Andy. He wasn't who they wanted the team to draft. He gets more hate than John Ross but Andy has actually performed and produced. From Gradkowski to Johnson to McCarron to Driskel, whoever holds the clipboard is the best QB on the team according to half the fan base or more. Someone will oversimplify this, but every damn season fans want the backup to start over Dalton. It's ridiculous. Yes, QBs get the heat, but Bengals fans take it to a whole new level; dumping trash on their yard, booing them at celebrity events, hanging banners at training camp. Other fan bases don't do that shit. I may be wrong about Driskel, but no Dalton back up QB has went on to produce better than Dalton.

So if you stuck around reading this long, moving on from Andy is fine. I would say we would want to draft his replacement high. Maybe even let Andy groom him for a season and then make the switch. If we should ever get a new head coach, he should be able to pick his QB. Constantly pretending that we have a worldbeater holding the clipboard is preposterous though.

(11-12-2018, 06:48 AM)zygrot24 Wrote: Andy and Marvin should have been ran out years ago. We had a replacement for Marvin, but let Mike Zimmer leave. We had Andy's replacement  with McCarron.  Mike Brown doesn't give a shit if the Bengals win 15 games, or just one.

McCarron isn't good. No NFL team wanted him as more than a backup. Then Buffalo signed him and let him compete for a job...and traded him. Now Matt Barkley is starting there.

(11-12-2018, 09:44 AM)Tomkat Wrote: Ummm you forgot Ben Roethelisberger only became a starter because Tommy Maddox was injured.

Ben was a #11 overall pick who was drafted while the Steelers were starting a 34 year old QB they got from the XFL.  Saying Ben was the backup QB there is like saying Darnold/Allen/Rosen/Mayfield are all backup QBs because they spent a week behind McCown/Peterman/Bradford/Taylor.

Maybe if we started Bruce Gradkowski for a week in 2011 you'd be in love with Dalton because he was a "backup QB" who got his chance to start and proved himself.  Hell, Palmer was a backup to Kitna before he got his start. Anderson was behind Virgil Carter, and Boomer was behind Anderson. Geez, Dalton is the only actual starting QB we've had! Everyone else was a backup.


At any rate, Dalton was a 2nd round pick like Joe Montana, so check mate.

(11-12-2018, 08:35 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: This is bullshit.

Nobody wants to "lose with.Dalton".

This just sounds like another thump your chest about the unknown and try to act like you're right and everyone else is blind type of thread.

And for what it's worth I've seen far more impressive play out of Driskle than McCarron...  but that's usually in garbage time.

AJ Mac has looked like crap and can't stay healthy anyway.

You'd be watching his backup play because he's made of glass.

Look how upset yall get about dalton lol you guys still dont listen..you dont know what mccarron or driskel could do unless given a real chance. You guys gave dalton 3 seasons right off the bat,then say every year well the team has other issues.

(11-12-2018, 12:14 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Ben was a #11 overall pick who was drafted while the Steelers were starting a 34 year old QB they got from the XFL.  Saying Ben was the backup QB there is like saying Darnold/Allen/Rosen/Mayfield are all backup QBs because they spent a week behind McCown/Peterman/Bradford/Taylor.

Maybe if we started Bruce Gradkowski for a week in 2011 you'd be in love with Dalton because he was a "backup QB" who got his chance to start and proved himself.  Hell, Palmer was a backup to Kitna before he got his start.  Anderson was behind Virgil Carter, and Boomer was behind Anderson.  Geez, Dalton is the only actual starting QB we've had!  Everyone else was a backup.


At any rate, Dalton was a 2nd round pick like Joe Montana, so check mate.

Yeah there was many cases like that too, where they got somebody already but still drafted a qb. Bengals never do that..it would be considered a wasted pick.

(11-12-2018, 11:03 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: First, everyone needs to pick a narrative and stay with it. Either the loss was on Andy yesterday because Andy or missing our top offensive weapon hurt and the other receivers didn't step up in his place. I know, I know, it obviously can't be the second one because that would take some heat off of Andy.

Next, as someone who has been labeled as "Andy's Army", a "Dalton lover", a "Dalton apologist", and whatever other stupid names get made up, I have no problem moving on from Dalton. I just want it to be an upgrade or at least have the appearance of upgrade. Not just get rid of Dalton for the sake of getting rid of him. Driskel has played well in the preseason against 3rd stringers and has played well in garbage time when the outcome of the game was already decided. That's just not enough for me to proclaim Driskel should be the starter. Though Bengals fan hate their QB, he's actually played well over the course of his career. He's a better than average QB. So yeah, before we toss him in the trash pile, I'd like to think it's for someone who would be an upgrade and not just because the next QB isn't Andy Dalton.

Somehow this team has had success with Andy. Though we have many fans that seem to think he's a scrub, these last 8 years have produced the most success in franchise history. No, they haven't won a playoff game but this team has won. Fans don't just wallow in pity because they're Bengals fans now, they wallow in pity because they don't win playoff games. This is a franchise where the potential to make the playoffs was exciting. Now, it's expected. Winning has certainly became a lot more common these last 8 years. Andy Dalton is a contributor to that success. A pretty big one too.

Finally, a lot of fans just never like Andy. He wasn't who they wanted the team to draft. He gets more hate than John Ross but Andy has actually performed and produced. From Gradkowski to Johnson to McCarron to Driskel, whoever holds the clipboard is the best QB on the team according to half the fan base or more. Someone will oversimplify this, but every damn season fans want the backup to start over Dalton. It's ridiculous. Yes, QBs get the heat, but Bengals fans take it to a whole new level; dumping trash on their yard, booing them at celebrity events, hanging banners at training camp. Other fan bases don't do that shit. I may be wrong about Driskel, but no Dalton back up QB has went on to produce better than Dalton.

So if you stuck around reading this long, moving on from Andy is fine. I would say we would want to draft his replacement high. Maybe even let Andy groom him for a season and then make the switch. If we should ever get a new head coach, he should be able to pick his QB. Constantly pretending that we have a worldbeater holding the clipboard is preposterous though.

Success with andy, we beat the bad teams and losed to the good teams and cant win a playoff game or even primetime game. 

My point of my post is bengals fans laugh at the thought of our backup like driskel. But its been proven backups have made a name for theirselves before.

(11-12-2018, 12:28 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Look how upset yall get about dalton lol you guys still dont listen..you dont know what mccarron or driskel could do unless given a real chance. You guys gave dalton 3 seasons right off the bat,then say every year well the team has other issues.

Not really.  I don't have a problem with them taking a high round draft pick at QB.

Just look at my response in the blowup thread.  

I have some faith in Driskel as a decent NFL QB.

McCarron... not so much.

Dude you really don't follow football if you haven't heard the phrase "everybody loves the backup".

It's not just a Dalton/Bengals thing.

It's an anomaly.  Teams can get lucky every once in a while.

You're a Bengals fan... right?  

Is good luck something that happens to this franchise?

I have no problem moving on from Dalton with a high round pick and letting Driskel battle it out.

So now whadda ya think?  

You just keep grasping at the unknown and proclaiming yourself a genuis.

Epic!

(11-12-2018, 12:30 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah there was many cases like that too, where they got somebody already but still drafted a qb. Bengals never do that..it would be considered a wasted pick.

Well, QBs are high priced commodities so once you have a decent QB in place (as in Palmer/Dalton) you can use picks to get other necessary pieces at cost, rather than overpaying for a QB you might not need.  You can take any good player (and even some bad ones) we've had in the past 15 years and replace him with an available QB.

AJ Green or Jake Locker/Christian Ponder/Blame Gabbert?

We could have taken Ryan Mallett instead of Dontay Moch

Kirkpatrick and Zietler or Brandon Weeden and Brock Osweiller?

Eifert and Gio or Geno Smith and Mike Glennon?

Darquzueuzeze Dennart or Derek Carr/TEddy Bridgewater?

Obeghuhihi or 5 total crap QBs available in 2015?

WJIII and Tyler Boyd or Paxton Lynch/Christian Hackenberg/Dak Prescott/Cardale Jones/Jacoby Brissett?

And a big one...John Ross or Pat Mahommes.  Oof!  That one hurts now...might hurt forever


Anyways, I could go on.  The thing is, we could have swapped most of our players for a slew of QBs, but most teams can say the same thing.  We haven't had many high picks in the Dalton era, but the Ross one over Mahommes/Watson...well, that looks like it could have been a blown one.  Otherwise?  A veritable collage of crapola.

Yep for sure, yesterday's loss falls squarely on Dalton....... Can it get any dumber in here??

(11-12-2018, 01:27 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Yep for sure, yesterday's loss falls squarely on Dalton....... Can it get any dumber in here??

Yeah it can by your comment,because nobody is claiming its squarely on dalton..why is that your guys conclusion everytime. 

(11-12-2018, 12:42 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Not really.  I don't have a problem with them taking a high round draft pick at QB.

Just look at my response in the blowup thread.  

I have some faith in Driskel as a decent NFL QB.

McCarron... not so much.

Dude you really don't follow football if you haven't heard the phrase "everybody loves the backup".

It's not just a Dalton/Bengals thing.

It's an anomaly.  Teams can get lucky every once in a while.

You're a Bengals fan... right?  

Is good luck something that happens to this franchise?

I have no problem moving on from Dalton with a high round pick and letting Driskel battle it out.

So now whadda ya think?  

You just keep grasping at the unknown and proclaiming yourself a genuis.

Epic!

Never claimed i was a genius. And you are right its not just a bengals thing. But there usually is good reason if fans are enticed by the backup. And it has worked before,thats all im saying. We got fans that say driskel! Haha what a moron you dont know football if you think andy is the problem,if driskel was better hed be starting!! When just like you said its the unknown,they dont know either it would take games and experience to find out. 

Like i said we drafted dalton and automatically they said he atleast gets 3 years right off the bat. Dalton cane into a great opportunity.

(11-12-2018, 05:32 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Nick Foles- nobody knew of him when he took over for vick
Brett Favre- got released from Atl and was 2nd string for the pack.
Randall Cunningham- vikings afc championship 35 years old
Steve Young- had to wait 4 years for his opportunity because of injury
Chad Pennington- won a playoff game
Doug Flutie - came in and went to the playoffs
Tim Tebow - came in later in the season.

Foles was a 2nd round pick, people knew who he was.

Favre was not released by the Falcons, Ron Wolf traded a 1st round pick to them for Favre.

Cunningham was a 3 time Pro Bowler and had retired for a season before coming back to Minnesota.

Young had a $40 million contract in the USFL, was a 1st round pick in the supplemental draft, and failed in Tampa because the 80's Bucs make Mike Brown look like his father in comparison.

Pennington was a 1st round pick and the 2 playoff games he won were in seasons where he was the established starter.

Flutie was a multiple time CFL MVP, Grey Cup MVP and Grey Cup Champion who was largely shunned by the NFL due to his diminutive size.

Tebow was a rookie 1st round pick.

The others, fair enough, but those 7 don't really fit the unknown/underdog coming out of nowhere mold, or in regards to Favre the circumstances of how he got to Green Bay are just outright incorrect.

Edit: Garcia was a 3 time Pro-Bowl QB nearing the end of his career.

Frank Reich led the greatest playoff comeback in NFL history. They were down 28-3 at halftime (in a game Reich started btw) and won 41-38 in OT. The following week they beat an OK Steelers team solidly but Reich didn't set the world on fire in that game (160 yds, 2 TD's)

Not saying Driskell is better than Dalton as that's laughable...but his ability to run really helped the offense. That's a huge threat.

(11-12-2018, 01:54 PM)Ravage Wrote: Foles was a 2nd round pick, people knew who he was.

Favre was not released by the Falcons, Ron Wolf traded a 1st round pick to them for Favre.

Cunningham was a 3 time Pro Bowler and had retired for a season before coming back to Minnesota.

Young had a $40 million contract in the USFL, was a 1st round pick in the supplemental draft, and failed in Tampa because the 80's Bucs make Mike Brown look like his father in comparison.

Pennington was a 1st round pick and the 2 playoff games he won were in seasons where he was the established starter.

Flutie was a multiple time CFL MVP, Grey Cup MVP and Grey Cup Champion who was largely shunned by the NFL due to his diminutive size.

Tebow was a rookie 1st round pick.

The others, fair enough, but those 7 don't really fit the unknown/underdog coming out of nowhere mold, or in regards to Favre the circumstances of how he got to Green Bay are just outright incorrect.

Fair enough ,but it has happened. Teams just invest more time in higher picks. Just the way it works. It doesnt mean the lower guys cant play at all.abd the theory well if he was better he'd be starting is incorrect. I hear it all the time about players. 

(11-12-2018, 12:28 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: .you dont know what mccarron or driskel could do unless given a real chance. 

McCarron got a chance to play with the exact same offense around him that Dalton had.  He clearly was not as good as Dalton.

Please stop with the obvious trolling.  Or at least come up with something that is not clearly made up BS.