I know everyone is unhappy with the way the defence has been playing lately and want Austin gone but for me shouldn't Tobin's coat be on a shaky peg?

Everyone knows or O line was needing a drastic overhaul in the last draft and the only notable guy we picked up was Price, I know people will say that we also got Glen for that pick but that hasn't exactly made a big difference.
Marvin even commented in his interview after the draft that Pollock was wanting another couple of guys but we didn't get any.
for the last number of years all we hear is that we get the BPA but there is no point in keep signing players for a position when we are in desperate need somewhere else

The draft can only bring so many players, and to count on it to consistently fill a roster is foolish. This team has had trouble drafting OL and LB for sure but overall it drafts very well. Given how Mikey operates, you are unlikely to find a better guy than Tobin in that position.

(11-12-2018, 12:29 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: I know everyone is unhappy with the way the defence has been playing lately and want Austin gone but for me shouldn't Tobin's coat be on a shaky peg?

Everyone knows or O line was needing a drastic overhaul in the last draft and the only notable guy we picked up was Price, I know people will say that we also got Glen for that pick but that hasn't exactly made a big difference.
Marvin even commented in his interview after the draft that Pollock was wanting another couple of guys but we didn't get any.
for the last number of years all we hear is that we get the BPA but there is no point in keep signing players for a position when we are in desperate need somewhere else

What's interesting is that I think Duke does a pretty good job, and I blame some of it on our team not maximizing the talent of the players we have here.

But.. it seems where we fail in the draft is at 2 of the most key positions in the NFL. We aren't good at scouting O-line talent, and absolutely horrid at LB talent. With the inability to hit on these 2 positions, the reality is that you will have an extremely tough time being a contender.

We definitely should have drafted more OL help as Pollack requested and was screaming myself about the same thing.

Not sure if Tobin makes that call or not though.

(11-12-2018, 12:29 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: I know everyone is unhappy with the way the defence has been playing lately and want Austin gone but for me shouldn't Tobin's coat be on a shaky peg?

Everyone knows or O line was needing a drastic overhaul in the last draft and the only notable guy we picked up was Price, I know people will say that we also got Glen for that pick but that hasn't exactly made a big difference.
Marvin even commented in his interview after the draft that Pollock was wanting another couple of guys but we didn't get any.
for the last number of years all we hear is that we get the BPA but there is no point in keep signing players for a position when we are in desperate need somewhere else

You are forgetting that Mike Brown has final say on draft day and when he exerts his viewpoint into the draft we f it up.

I don't think we fully understand or know who and how the picks are actually made. It is clear that coaches and scouts advocate for certain players, same as in any organization, but how much that influences the final decision is not known. Did PA have heavy influence simply because of his tenure? Does Mikey still decide on guys like Ross and over rule others in the room?

End of the day, Tobin and his staff put together the prospect reports and from what we have gathered the coaches do have some input into the final ranking of these players.

I think Tobin has a bigger say in who we draft, He has been the main focal point at the combines and is already running the draft war room as confirmed by Marv.
As I said I just don't think its enough to go for the BPA if we already have 2 or 3 good players in the same position when we are crying out for decent players in the OL.

(11-12-2018, 04:34 PM)JWW1971 Wrote: I think Tobin has a bigger say in who we draft, He has been the main focal point at the combines and is already running the draft war room as confirmed by Marv.
As I said I just don't think its enough to go for the BPA if we already have 2 or 3 good players in the same position when we are crying out for decent players in the OL.

The hybrid to this would be to still use BPA but target players which would mean being more active in trading up and down. If we say we need 3 OL in the next draft then target the players you are after and find a way to get them. We usually sit back and let BPA players fall to us but given the number of picks we have had over the last 2 years one could argue they could have moved up several times to grab a targeted player. 

They need to get away with BPA unless they strongly look at position of highest need, rank the accordingly and then go BPA at those positions. This can be done from the first to final pick.

(11-12-2018, 04:52 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: They need to get away with BPA unless they strongly look at position of highest need, rank the accordingly and then go BPA at those positions. This can be done from the first to final pick.

I can agree with that idea.  Who determines if taking a player of need, over a player perceived to be more valuable, is indeed a "reach"?  Hell, it seems that half of the time, the talent judged to be at the top of their position class end up being busts or otherwise underachieving for whatever reason.  

When dealing with a team with as many holes as the Bengals have at various position groups, you can't go wrong with stocking up on a bunch of what I call "film giants".  Those are the players that maybe don't have those "elite measurables" that so many seem to covet, but they are fundamentally air-tight and have football I.Q.'s that are off the chart.  

Sure, every year there are a few obvious standouts that will obviously be instant NFL stars, and you do need a couple of them on your team.  However the emphasis of judgement should go on the fundamentals of the game, blocking and tackling.  If your team as a whole can block and tackle better than the guys across from you?  Chances are you will win most of your games.

The draft is 1 of 3 main areas to build a team. The 2nd is players via non-draft sources (free agents, udfa, trades ) and the 3rd is coaching.

We do well at 1 and below average in the other two. This dooms the team to never really get anywhere.

(11-12-2018, 12:44 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The draft can only bring so many players, and to count on it to consistently fill a roster is foolish. This team has had trouble drafting OL and LB for sure but overall it drafts very well. Given how Mikey operates, you are unlikely to find a better guy than Tobin in that position.

Exactly. With needing to find essentially four new starters, it was never going to be realistic to fill all those in one offseason.
The RT FA class last year was not very good, so the only option would have been the draft. There also weren't a lot of great options for RT last year. Perhaps they could have pulled the trigger on Orlando Brown instead of Malik Jefferson in Rd 3, but he's only just been "meh" with the Ravens so far. And the Bengals likely wouldn't have started him anyway.

Hopefully the team addresses RT and RG this coming offseason because it doesn't seem like they want to give Westerman a chance on the right side.