With all that’s going on in Cincinnati this week, I would like to take a chance to thank the Front Office for having a sense of urgency. This is highly unusual and countercultural to Bengal history. Still, I like it, I appreciate it, and I want to see more of it. To make changes like this, you know, big wholesale changes during a winning season and a playoff run, is highly unusual. This takes guts, vision, and risk.

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Brown wants to win. I haven’t seen this sort of out of the box thinking since Sam Wyche was the head coach. Let’s hope Marvin Lewis can take the Cincinnati defense several levels higher than it currently performs.

This season isn’t lost.

(11-13-2018, 06:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: With all that’s going on in Cincinnati this week, I would like to take a chance to thank the Front Office for having a sense of urgency. This is highly unusual and countercultural to Bengal history. Still, I like it, I appreciate it, and I want to see more of it. To make changes like this, you know, big wholesale changes during a winning season and a playoff run, is highly unusual. This takes guts, vision, and risk.  

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Brown wants to win.  I haven’t seen this sort of out of the box thinking since Sam Wyche was the head coach.  Let’s hope Marvin Lewis can take the Cincinnati defense several levels higher than it currently performs.  

This season isn’t lost.

Is the recycling of Hue Jackson -- for yet another go round -- really to be considered a counter cultural move for Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis? It seems rather par for the course, as it were. 

The firing of Mr. Austin took neither guts, vision or risk as you state. He oversaw a unit that was destined to claim it's place as the worst defense in the storied history of the NFL. They were forced -- by the reality of the situation -- to make the change. 

Although I don't agree that the changes were in any way "outside the box thinking", I most certainly hope they work out in way that helps this team right the ship and get back on course.

(11-13-2018, 06:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: With all that’s going on in Cincinnati this week, I would like to take a chance to thank the Front Office for having a sense of urgency. This is highly unusual and countercultural to Bengal history. Still, I like it, I appreciate it, and I want to see more of it. To make changes like this, you know, big wholesale changes during a winning season and a playoff run, is highly unusual. This takes guts, vision, and risk.  

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Brown wants to win.  I haven’t seen this sort of out of the box thinking since Sam Wyche was the head coach.  Let’s hope Marvin Lewis can take the Cincinnati defense several levels higher than it currently performs.  

This season isn’t lost.

No offense, but this was textbook Mike Brown. A safe, familiar, cheap solution.

(11-13-2018, 06:42 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Is the recycling of Hue Jackson -- for yet another go round -- really to be considered a counter cultural move for Mike Brown and Marvin Lewis. It seems rather par for the course, as it were. 

The firing of Mr. Austin took neither guts, vision or risk as you state. He oversaw a unit that was destined to claim it's place as the worst defense in the storied history of the NFL. They were forced -- by the reality of the situation -- to make the change. 

i think perhaps for other organizations it may be a logical step faced with the reality of the situation...

..but for the Bengals , specifically for Mike Brown who is exceptionally loyal (blinkered/cheap/conservative...delete as per your viewpoint) the fact is this type of move at all, and especially mid season is rare.

You can rip them for hiring the wrong guy in the first place, but you can't rip them in this instance for sitting on the problem and fixing it end of season ...by which time its too late for this years playoff opportunity

The cheap solution would be to fire one guy and hire no one.

Hue was good enough here to earn a HC spot off of it. He got canned in Cleveland. So did Bill Belichick. If Hue had a kicker he'd probably still be coaching.

As it is we at least bring in a guy with serious insight into two of our remaining seven opponents.

The right guy was canned. At this point in the season there is no one else to bring in. Folks thinking this is Mike Brown 101, I can't remember a time the Bengals brought in a coach mid season. When Leslie Frazier got canned Marvin took over and no one was brought in.. or am I misremembering?

(11-13-2018, 06:42 PM)Lucidus Wrote: The firing of Mr. Austin took neither guts, vision or risk as you state. He oversaw a unit that was destined to claim it's place as the worst defense in the storied history of the NFL. They were forced -- by the reality of the situation -- to make the change. 

Hogwash, the traditional Mike Brown that we've all come to know and despise would certainly NOT have been alright with the firing of Coordinators in mid-season, especially in consecutive years.  There ain't no way in hell that he'd go along with having to pay a man to not work.  Maybe it's time that you open your eyes, and take notice that the team is changing the way they do things, compared to how they have traditionally done things?

(11-13-2018, 06:55 PM)Wilikn Wrote: The cheap solution would be to fire one guy and hire no one.

Hue was good enough here to earn a HC spot off of it.  He got canned in Cleveland.  So did Bill Belichick.  If Hue had a kicker he'd probably still be coaching.

As it is we at least bring in a guy with serious insight into two of our remaining seven opponents.  

The right guy was canned.  At this point in the season there is no one else to bring in.  Folks thinking this is Mike Brown 101, I can't remember a time the Bengals brought in a coach mid season.  When Leslie Frazier got canned Marvin took over and no one was brought in.. or am I misremembering?

My only complaint was waiting until the time they did choose to can Austin.  After the KC debacle would have been fine, heck even after nearly blowing the lead versus Tampa would have been good, then Marvin would have had two weeks to work closely with the defensive personnel.

(11-13-2018, 06:49 PM)sonofstat Wrote: i think perhaps for other organizations it may be a logical step faced with the reality of the situation...

..but for the Bengals , specifically for Mike Brown who is exceptionally loyal (blinkered/cheap/conservative...delete as per your viewpoint) the fact is this type of move at all, and especially mid season is rare.

You can rip them for hiring the wrong guy in the first place, but you can't rip them in this instance for sitting on the problem and fixing it end of season ...by which time its too late for this years playoff opportunity

It was not my intent to "rip" them at all. My only point was to say that the situation with Austin was so incredibly abhorrent and obvious that it forced their hand and left them with literally no other real alternative other than his dismissal.

In the case of Jackson, it could very well end up being beneficial to bring him on board once again. However, it is in no way outside the box for Brown and Lewis to reunite with him yet again, as suggested by the OP.

Just as I thought. SOME OF the same people who whine and cry about the Bengals not doing anything still whine and cry when they do something.

Marvin could win 3 Super Bowls in a row and some people here would be just be whining and crying about why he waited so long and how "a real coach" would have won 6 in a row.

(11-13-2018, 06:23 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: With all that’s going on in Cincinnati this week, I would like to take a chance to thank the Front Office for having a sense of urgency. This is highly unusual and countercultural to Bengal history. Still, I like it, I appreciate it, and I want to see more of it. To make changes like this, you know, big wholesale changes during a winning season and a playoff run, is highly unusual. This takes guts, vision, and risk.  

Maybe, just maybe, Mike Brown wants to win.  I haven’t seen this sort of out of the box thinking since Sam Wyche was the head coach.  Let’s hope Marvin Lewis can take the Cincinnati defense several levels higher than it currently performs.  

This season isn’t lost.

Rep.  

Many years the coordinator of the worst defense in the league makes it through the full season before he is fired, but it had to happen here.  Iloka is the only "loss" from 2017 and he is a back up in Minnesota.  We were not great last year, but having the worst offense in the entire league will drag down a defense's numbers because they are on the field more.  Yet we still finished 18th in points and 16th in yards.  Before that we had a top 10 scoring defense 5 of 6 years.  We have way too much talent to be this bad.

(11-13-2018, 07:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hogwash, the traditional Mike Brown that we've all come to know and despise would certainly NOT have been alright with the firing of Coordinators in mid-season, especially in consecutive years.  There ain't no way in hell that he'd go along with having to pay a man to not work.  Maybe it's time that you open your eyes, and take notice that the team is changing the way they do things, compared to how they have traditionally done things?

Again, the situation with Austin was simply unsustainable, even on the Mike Brown scale. It had gotten to the point where things had become so incredibly bad that Brown and Lewis had no other alternative. 

I also fail to understand the need for the "open your eyes" comment. We can have a different opinion of things without implying that the other is somehow not seeing things correctly because of said differing opinion.

It’s not that things were bad, it’s that they were so bad that the media was beginning to focus on it. The shame game had to play apart of it. I’ll give Mike credit that a lot of times the shaming doesn’t even work but he did make a move this time. I guess that’s a plus.

(11-13-2018, 07:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Just as I thought.  SOME OF the same people who whine and cry about the Bengals not doing anything still whine and cry when they do something.

Marvin could win 3 Super Bowls in a row and some people here would be just be whining and crying about why he waited so long and how "a real coach" would have won 6 in a row.

I wish we were having those discussions my friend. It is most unfortunate that we're not even able to debate a playoff win or two.

I do agree with the OP that the season is not lost. There are many issues that need addressing by both coaches and players in order to get them back to where they want to be, but I do believe it can be done. Health is a factor as well, and hopefully, as they start correcting course -- which I believe they will -- they get healthier and increasingly stronger for what should be a very competitive final stretch.

(11-13-2018, 07:14 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: My only complaint was waiting until the time they did choose to can Austin.  After the KC debacle would have been fine, heck even after nearly blowing the lead versus Tampa would have been good, then Marvin would have had two weeks to work closely with the defensive personnel.

Agree,

To little to late should be on Marvin's training camp t shirts next season. They should have done it so the bye week could have been used to get things together.

Having said that Mike Brown doesn't fire people, MB doesn't ever fire people in season no matter how bad they deserve it. Now we've seen the OC fired last year and the DC fired this year. Add in the uncharacteristically active (for the Bengals) offseason and any long time fan can't miss the winds of change, albeit a mild wind.

On the one hand I'm hoping this move will help this season, but on the other hand I don't like how this smells. Another basically in house hire that reeks of MB/Bengals stay in the safe zone at all costs philosophy. 

And I loathe where I believe this is headed. 

(11-13-2018, 07:28 PM)Lucidus Wrote: Again, the situation with Austin was simply unsustainable, even on the Mike Brown scale. It had gotten to the point where things had become so incredibly bad that Brown and Lewis had no other alternative. 

I also fail to understand the need for the "open your eyes" comment. We can have a different opinion of things without implying that the other is somehow not seeing things correctly because of said differing opinion.

Don't you find it just a bit out of the Bengals ordinary to can a Coordinator, in-season, in consecutive seasons?  Also, the firing of Paul Alexander was also way out of the traditional Bengals decision making.  Granted, these are the type of moves that we should have been seeing, since the day Marvin took up the HC position, but any close follower of the Bengals can understand how things progress around here.

I meant nothing personal by the "open your eyes" comment, I hope you're not seriously upset about it.  

(11-13-2018, 07:59 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: On the one hand I'm hoping this move will help this season, but on the other hand I don't like how this smells. Another basically in house hire that reeks of MB/Bengals stay in the safe zone at all costs philosophy. 

Right, because there were so many other quality coaches available to fill a huge hole on our staff.

It is hard to bring in a stranger mid season to hit the ground running knowing exactly what the HC wants/needs.


Hue was just what we needed.  And it has nothing to do with him becoming HC.  We heard that before and it turned out to be BS. 

There sure are a lot of interesting comments on here, pro and con!

In my OP I posit the Front Office’s unusually aggressive — for them — moves are made by using sound strategy. Of course, I’m perfectly willing to entertain the opposite possibility. These moves may have been made out of pure desperation.

However, I don’t think so. Also, I believe it is important to remember that these moves are measures meant to get the team through the season and into the playoffs. I do not for one moment think these are permanent solutions which will extend into 2019 and beyond.

Once the season is over I suspect the Front Office will take a fresh look at things. Obviously, the Bengals need a head coach and offensive coordinator who are not one and the same person. The potential pitfall I see is this: Marvin Lewis may prove to be the best defensive coordinator the Bengals have ever had. If that’s the case, then the Front Office truly has a dilemma. Is Marvin retained as head coach, defensive coordinator, or what?

It would be highly unusual for a head coach to step down and assume a coordinator position in the NFL and in this case, this would be a most unselfish act on behalf of Marvin Lewis.

(11-13-2018, 08:04 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Don't you find it just a bit out of the Bengals ordinary to can a Coordinator, in-season, in consecutive seasons?  Also, the firing of Paul Alexander was also way out of the traditional Bengals decision making.  Granted, these are the type of moves that we should have been seeing, since the day Marvin took up the HC position, but any close follower of the Bengals can understand how things progress around here.

I meant nothing personal by the "open your eyes" comment, I hope you're not seriously upset about it.  

I agree with you about the firing of Alexander to a large extent. I honestly did not think it would happen, yet it did and I was very pleased with that. I think that situation also falls into what I was attempting to say earlier with Austin, in that it had become so blatantly bad that they reached the point of no return and were forced to finally make the move. I was extremely impressed with the signings of Van Pelt and Pollack.

I must admit that the "open your eyes" comment did touch somewhat of a nerve , but only because before joining this forum, I had previously spent time in a Bengals group on Facebook where that was a greatly overused assertion. If you disagreed with some in any way, or offered an alternative view of things, you were deemed as "blind" or needing to "open your eyes".

I am still in the process of feeling this forum out and assessing how different posters approach conversation, but I must say that I'm already enjoying the overall atmosphere here much more than I ever did in my previous home for Bengals discussion. 

(11-13-2018, 08:17 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: There sure are a lot of interesting comments on here, pro and con!

In my OP I posit the Front Office’s unusually aggressive — for them — moves are made by using sound strategy.   Of course, I’m perfectly willing to entertain the opposite possibility.  These moves may have been made out of pure desperation.

However, I don’t think so. Also, I believe it is important to remember that these moves are measures meant to get the team through the season and into the playoffs.   I do not for one moment think these are permanent solutions which will extend into 2019 and beyond.

Once the season is over I suspect the Front Office will take a fresh look at things.  Obviously, the Bengals need a head coach and offensive coordinator who are not one and the same person.   The potential pitfall I see is this: Marvin Lewis may prove to be the best defensive coordinator the Bengals have ever had. If that’s the case, then the Front Office truly has a dilemma. Is Marvin retained as head coach, defensive coordinator, or what?  

It would be highly unusual for a head coach to step down and assume a coordinator position in the NFL  and in this case, this would be a most unselfish act on behalf of Marvin Lewis.

While I see things a bit differently, as I pointed out in my response to your OP, I certainly hope the moves -- whether they were proactive or reactive in nature -- help put this season back on track. If Lewis can get the defense playing closer to their potential and the team can begin to get healthier, I still believe the playoffs are still very much in play.