Lapham made a very good point after the Brownies crammed it down our throats the opening drive.....quit deferring the opening kickoff.  You KNOW your defense is struggling, and it's almost guaranteed your offense is going to have to start out playing from behind.  Shake things up, give the offense a chance to dictate what they WANT to do, maybe get a score, and play with a lead instead of coming back the entire game. Who knows, it may establish some momentum.  If you want change, you have to MAKE change.  This should be common sense......

It's an interesting point.

Remember in the mid-2000's when the defense would jump offside and Palmer would take a knee. For some reason I thought about that yesterday. I told my wife about it and she was like, why would they do that?

I had no explanation.

(11-26-2018, 01:17 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's an interesting point.

Remember in the mid-2000's when the defense would jump offside and Palmer would take a knee. For some reason I thought about that yesterday. I told my wife about it and she was like, why would they do that?

I had no explanation.

Damn.....I had forgotten about that little interesting nugget....it was infuriating.

Yep, conventional wisdom dictates you put your strongest group on the field first. That used to be the defense for us. Someone needs to tell Marvin that isn't the case anymore. Preferably as he's cleaning out his office.

I heard Al Michaels last night during SNF say that 95% of teams defer the coin toss as Zimmer didn't defer.

p.s. not arguing or anything, but it just struck me odd that % is that high

(11-26-2018, 01:20 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Yep, conventional wisdom dictates you put your strongest group on the field first. The used to be the defense for us. Someone needs to tell Marvin that isn't the case anymore. As he's cleaning out his office preferably.

Since AJ has been out, the offense has been downright bad too. I feel like the repeat contenders don't have their offense completely sputter if their top 1-2 receivers are out. They just seem to have no-name guys continually stepping up.

(11-26-2018, 01:21 PM)Millhouse Wrote: I heard Al Michaels last night during SNF say that 95% of teams defer the coin toss as Zimmer didn't defer.

p.s. not arguing or anything, but it just struck me odd that % is that high

That is very interesting.....I would not have guessed it that high either.  That said, in our case, it makes some sense.  I get why you defer it, it's nice to get the ball in the 2nd half.  Even yesterday, we scored to end the half, and could have cut the lead to 14 had we scored coming out.  I also get what Lap is saying.....your defense is like a sieve, shake it up.

Agree 100%. When we keep giving up opening TD drives it sets the tone for the game. Maybe for once try and grab the lead early and play from there. You know our O is sitting on the sideline watching the other team seamlessly drive down the field and thinking “here we go again”.

(11-26-2018, 01:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Since AJ has been out, the offense has been downright bad too. I feel like the repeat contenders don't have their offense completely sputter if their top 1-2 receivers are out. They just seem to have no-name guys continually stepping up.

You think we're too vanilla?

(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: You think we're too vanilla?

I think our offense doesn't attack the opponents well. The Saints throw TD's to undrafted guys.

Our offense is based on AJ's athleticism.

Our plays aren't draft up well enough and aren't called at the right time. Get Ross the ball on short throws and let him run, etc.

(11-26-2018, 01:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Since AJ has been out, the offense has been downright bad too. I feel like the repeat contenders don't have their offense completely sputter if their top 1-2 receivers are out. They just seem to have no-name guys continually stepping up.

Picking which is our strongest group these days is tricky, but as much as our offense has struggled, our defense is just worse. It's bad football period.

(11-26-2018, 01:28 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think our offense doesn't attack the opponents well. The Saints throw TD's to undrafted guys.

Our offense is based on AJ's athleticism.

Our plays aren't draft up well enough and aren't called at the right time. Get Ross the ball on short throws and let him run, etc.

This is what I was driving at.  We just don't scheme well enough it seems.  Is it a byproduct of a bad coordinator, a bad line dictating what you can and can't do, or both?

(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)Wyche Wrote: You think we're too vanilla?

Could be. I think the team relies on Green's size + skill set too much and practically no one can match that.
And I don't think Lazor/Marvin is creative enough to adjust the playcalling based on which players are out due to injury.

(11-26-2018, 01:39 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Could be. I think the team relies on Green's size + skill set too much and practically no one can match that.
And I don't think Lazor/Marvin is creative enough to adjust the playcalling based on which players are out due to injury.

Huge part of it in my opinion.....Merv adjust?

(11-26-2018, 01:43 PM)Wyche Wrote: Huge part of it in my opinion.....Merv adjust?

I honestly don't believe this team knows how to cater/change a game plan based on the strengths of its personnel.
They really seem to try to just put whichever player(s) into the planned scheme regardless of who that player is.
Not all players are interchangeable.

(11-26-2018, 01:20 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: Yep, conventional wisdom dictates you put your strongest group on the field first. 

So your suggesting we put the cheerleaders on first?

(11-26-2018, 02:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I honestly don't believe this team knows how to cater/change a game plan based on the strengths of its personnel.
They really seem to try to just put whichever player(s) into the planned scheme regardless of who that player is.
Not all players are interchangeable.

Yep. Remember Chase Coffman? They drafted a dynamic pass catching TE but didn't use him much because the coaches expect their TEs to be good blockers too.

(11-26-2018, 01:25 PM)Wyche Wrote: That is very interesting.....I would not have guessed it that high either.  That said, in our case, it makes some sense.  I get why you defer it, it's nice to get the ball in the 2nd half.  Even yesterday, we scored to end the half, and could have cut the lead to 14 had we scored coming out.  I also get what Lap is saying.....your defense is like a sieve, shake it up.

Next man up is a joke,as they are backups for a reason.When you lose starting players,you are going to struggle maybe except for the top teams,which coach their backups to practice like the starters,which superbowl teams do just that,instead of just forgetting about them.This organization needs to clean house from top to bottom,no one in this franchise should have a job,and Mike Brown needs to fire himself.Until fans start not going to games,nothing will change.

I think they defer it because it takes a series or two for our offense to get cranking. If they go out there and go 3 and out, then not only have they set a bad tone for the game, they don't get the ball to start the 2nd half, which in and of itself  can be a huge momentum changer.

(11-26-2018, 01:37 PM)Wyche Wrote: This is what I was driving at.  We just don't scheme well enough it seems.  Is it a byproduct of a bad coordinator, a bad line dictating what you can and can't do, or both?

My theory: I think Eifert drew some focus from defenses early in the year, then losing him hurt. But the main thing is our offensive line is bad so Lazor called plays to hide it. Early in the year that worked, then defenses got tape on us and it was fairly easy to stop.

So he didn't adjust and we couldn't adjust because the line was so bad. We can't just get physical and run the ball. Take away the passing game and we're done.

Even when the offense was rolling in some 1st halfs...how many times did we come out and score 3 in the entire 2nd half? It's not like the opponent's personnel got better.