(11-26-2018, 02:44 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We don't need to over haul the roster completely. I would only consider trading 3 players Vontaz, Boyd, and if a spectacular deal comes for him Green. Other than that no. Sign a free agent LB, Draft a LB, s Draft a RT, and Draft a TE. You can do that  in one cycle. It's not a 4 or 5 year build like you're claiming it to be.

The 'magnitude' of that plan of action over one off season would give Mikey headaches and convulsions. The tree sloth cannot move that fast!

(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know this will be unpopular, but we might need to start trading these guys rather than lose them in free agency.

My favorite player AJ Green...trade him to the Patriots for a 1st and 3rd Round pick. He's starting to rack up injuries and is going to be a free agent soon and he's over 30 years old.

Guys like Atkins and Dunlap should be traded too if we can find a taker willing to give 1st Round picks.

We're looking at a 2-3-4 year rebuild...and unfortunately our stars are 30 years old and won't be productive at a high level when that completes.

I don't have a problem with this. The stars are over 30 and the recent drafts have been horrible.

But as others have said, the coaching staff must also change.

(11-26-2018, 01:29 PM)2MinutesHate Wrote: I would support this if a complete overhaul of the coaching staff took place and quite possibly a GM put into place even though that's a big wish list.
This staff cannot bring us a winner as has been evidenced since Paul Brown died so many years ago.

This.  Until the head is cut off.....moving players is the equivalent of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

As to the OP....if you gut the staff, then yeah, go for it.

Mike Brown needs to fire the entire coaching staff then hire a GM to run the franchise then just sign the checks and enjoy the games from his owners box.

The GM hires a Head Coach then both will hire the Coordinators. Then all get together and hire the rest of the staff then they all start evaluating the players and which players will fit the new Head Coachs scheme and trade or cut the ones that don't. Then they go out and get the players that will fit the new scheme and that buy into the new direction of the team.

Then the GM hires a complete Scouting Department because coaches evaluating talent at the college level during bowl games and Walter Football just isn't cutting it anymore.

Mike Brown gives them all 5-7 years to get to or win a Super Bowl. If they don't make it, all fired and start over.

(11-26-2018, 02:55 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The 'magnitude' of that plan of action over one off season would give Mikey headaches and convulsions. The tree sloth cannot move that fast!

I don't get why he can't though it's simple. 

(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know this will be unpopular, but we might need to start trading these guys rather than lose them in free agency.

My favorite player AJ Green...trade him to the Patriots for a 1st and 3rd Round pick. He's starting to rack up injuries and is going to be a free agent soon and he's over 30 years old.

Guys like Atkins and Dunlap should be traded too if we can find a taker willing to give 1st Round picks.

We're looking at a 2-3-4 year rebuild...and unfortunately our stars are 30 years old and won't be productive at a high level when that completes.

Two things:

1. I'd love to see this core group of good to really good to great players given one more real shot.

2. You know Mike Brown isn't going to go out and sign the free agents (real ones), make the trades, draft the right guys, and roll the heads that need rolled to get it done.

So I'm not so sure it isn't the right thing to do ? Give em a chance before it's to late !

There's no way in hell you can fix this team in one draft, probably not even two ! And Dalton, AJ, Carlos, and Geno don't have the time to fix it thru the draft.

Dalton is what he is. It doesn't take a genius to figure out without a good to really good Oline he's not going to be able to rise above yet they let the Oline just keep going downhill and tried to patch and band aid it back together (The Mike Brown way).

Sorry I just don't see any light at the end of this tunnel.

(11-26-2018, 02:44 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We don't need to over haul the roster completely. I would only consider trading 3 players Vontaz, Boyd, and if a spectacular deal comes for him Green. Other than that no. Sign a free agent LB, Draft a LB, s Draft a RT, and Draft a TE. You can do that  in one cycle. It's not a 4 or 5 year build like you're claiming it to be.

I agree with LBs, RT, and TE. However, you forgot to mention plan for RG and slot CB.
For RG, are you moving Westerman or Price to RG? Because all other guards are set to become FAs and frankly not worth starting at that spot. If you're moving Price to RG, you have to figure out what to do with C.
For slot CB, Dennard becomes a FA after this year. Are you re-signing him or no? If you don't re-sign him, how are you addressing that position?

(11-26-2018, 03:45 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I don't get why he can't though it's simple. 

He either can't or won't. It is in his nature to not be rash (and he would see this as such). Any 'drastic' plan would affect peoples lives and families, etc. this is how he thinks. 

(11-26-2018, 04:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I agree with LBs, RT, and TE. However, you forgot to mention plan for RG and slot CB.
For RG, are you moving Westerman or Price to RG? Because all other guards are set to become FAs and frankly not worth starting at that spot. If you're moving Price to RG, you have to figure out what to do with C.
For slot CB, Dennard becomes a FA after this year. Are you re-signing him or no? If you don't re-sign him, how are you addressing that position?

I would move Boiling to RG and put Westerman at LG. Resign Dennard if not I think Phillips can do the Job for him.

(11-26-2018, 05:42 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would move Boiling to RG and put Westerman at LG. Resign Dennard if not I think Phillips can do the Job for him.

I honestly would like to Cut Dre and move his money to Dennard and let Dennard play on the outside. We'd take a 4.2 million cap hit next year, so roll the remaining 7 million we would have paid Dre to Dennard. That would pay Dennard like a mid level CB 2. 

(11-26-2018, 05:45 PM)Au165 Wrote: I honestly would like to Cut Dre and move his money to Dennard and let Dennard play on the outside. We'd take a 4.2 million cap hit next year, so roll the remaining 7 million we would have paid Dre to Dennard. That would pay Dennard like a mid level CB 2. 

Honestly Dre is an albatross contract I still have no idea why they signed him for that. Dennard is a lot better to him. Also had a thought to move him to SS and move williams to LB.

(11-26-2018, 05:53 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Honestly Dre is an albatross contract I still have no idea why they signed him for that. Dennard is a lot better to him. Also had a thought to move him to SS and move williams to LB.

You can't pay a SS what we are paying him unfortunately, Dre's deal makes absolutely no sense as a CB. All I can think is we over paid him to have some opt out next year and beyond, but he is not playing like a top 10-12 CB but he is getting paid like it. He should be making between 7-8 million a year.

I think Green is wanting out. Did you see how disgusted he looked on the sideline yesterday? Who could blame him though

(11-26-2018, 01:26 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I know this will be unpopular, but we might need to start trading these guys rather than lose them in free agency.

My favorite player AJ Green...trade him to the Patriots for a 1st and 3rd Round pick. He's starting to rack up injuries and is going to be a free agent soon and he's over 30 years old.

Guys like Atkins and Dunlap should be traded too if we can find a taker willing to give 1st Round picks.

We're looking at a 2-3-4 year rebuild...and unfortunately our stars are 30 years old and won't be productive at a high level when that completes.

What the hell good with a number 1 do for us? Look at how much we’ve gained with #1s in the last three years...not a damn thing. So let’s trade away a proven commodity in Green...

A new coaching staff is needed as is a different strategy then Mike Brown has employed in the past. There are a few holes on this team but those can get filled by drafting for need next year by being aggressive and doing what it takes to get the best players in the draft at the position we need. This instead of always taking the second best by letting teams pick our player right before us. Being aggressive early in free agency to fill other key positions and cutting Marvin Lewis type no heart rejects.

elmer fudd and giggles would just eff it all up anyways. If the "star" players are ever going to go anywhere they need to go to other teams that have great owners and gm's.

(11-26-2018, 02:44 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: We don't need to over haul the roster completely. I would only consider trading 3 players Vontaz, Boyd, and if a spectacular deal comes for him Green. Other than that no. Sign a free agent LB, Draft a LB, s Draft a RT, and Draft a TE. You can do that in one cycle. It's not a 4 or 5 year build like you're claiming it to be.

Nobody drafted Vontaze when he was good. He's a shell of himself now. Nobody's trading for him.

(11-26-2018, 07:12 PM)jason Wrote: Nobody drafted Vontaze when he was good. He's a shell of himself now. Nobody's trading for him.

I would argue if motivated the guy could still be what everyone wants him to be. Put him in the right place and he will be great again. The problem with him his motivation not skill.

(11-26-2018, 06:41 PM)Stonyhands Wrote: What the hell good with a number 1 do for us?  Look at how much we’ve gained with #1s in the last three years...not a damn thing. So let’s trade away a proven commodity in Green...

A new coaching staff is needed as is a different strategy then Mike Brown has employed in the past.  There are a few holes on this team but those can get filled by drafting for need next year by being aggressive and doing what it takes to get the best players in the draft at the position we need.  This instead of always taking the second best by letting teams pick our player right before us.  Being aggressive early in free agency to fill other key positions and cutting Marvin Lewis type no heart rejects.

Green is going to be 31 and has 1 year left on his contract. He's also injury prone.

He's going to walk in free agency for nothing.

(11-26-2018, 07:12 PM)jason Wrote: Nobody drafted Vontaze when he was good. He's a shell of himself now. Nobody's trading for him.

He was undrafted because he was undisciplined.

I agree though...no one is trading for him.

(11-26-2018, 10:14 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would argue if motivated the guy could still be what everyone wants him to be. Put him in the right place and he will be great again. The problem with him his motivation not skill.

Well...he's also injured a lot and suspended even more.

He's likely going to get a 1 year suspension eventually. That's a huge burden to build a defense around.