(12-03-2018, 12:38 PM)thillan Wrote: Yep. I think what has taken me too long to realize is that you need to be a freak of nature to stand out here.

Guys like AJ Green stand out to me because they are so freakishly talented, they can overcome coaching. It's like Whitworth. Blue chip guys who can make it happen anywhere.

The key to REALLY good teams is to make average to "good" players play above their level. We just don't do that. If you are on this team, and you aren't a special talent, you probably will play exactly to your level, or lower. 

Guys like Ross to me, would still be used so much differently with better coaching. I still think he has talent. Maybe not #9 overall talent, but I think he's a really dangerous weapon. 

I considered Ross to be in that mid-to-late teens range in terms of prospects. I felt the same with Mike Williams. That draft class hasn't been great for WRs outside of JJSS.

With turf toe ending the careers of some of the greatest players in the league, I'm not sure we can consider Green apart of the core moving forward. He may never finish a year again and there's fear he may never get back 100%.

Boyd is the future, and we need to extend him and look for Greens replacement and quick.

At 31 with his toe issue, his career may be over. That turf toe is like the dreaded "deep bone bruise".

(12-03-2018, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: With turf toe ending the careers of some of the greatest players in the league, I'm not sure we can consider Green apart of the core moving forward. He may never finish a year again and there's fear he may never get back 100%.

Boyd is the future, and we need to extend him and look for Greens replacement and quick.

At 31 with his toe issue, his career may be over. That turf toe is like the dreaded "deep bone bruise".

No one is saying is career is over! Also how many players have been forced to retire because of this injury? He will be back probably in better shape than he has ever been.

Just cut the fin toe off and let’s go!

(12-03-2018, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: With turf toe ending the careers of some of the greatest players in the league, I'm not sure we can consider Green apart of the core moving forward. He may never finish a year again and there's fear he may never get back 100%.

Boyd is the future, and we need to extend him and look for Greens replacement and quick.

At 31 with his toe issue, his career may be over. That turf toe is like the dreaded "deep bone bruise".

I think he plays more...but he's only played more than 13 games in 2 of the past 5 games.

This year he'll play 9. 2 years ago he played 10.

I think we need to accept that he's likely to be injured each year...atleast some percentage of the games.

(12-02-2018, 08:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: There are a lot of holes to fill not counting the front office and coaching staff.  

Who would you identify as the core group players to move forward?

I would say that Green, Atkins, Dunlap, Boyd, and Mixon are the core.  Who would be your picks?

Bates, Jackson (who played well under a real DC), Lawson, Hubbard.

I know Lawson and Hubbard are role players at this point, but they bring a spark.

I thought about not keeping Green in the core group due to injury history but the guy is a freak of nature in talent. Ross is not the answer and I am still pissed the team drafted Ross over O.J. Howard TE. I think when the team drafts a new QB after replacing the HC and hopefully Mike Steps down, they will need another awesome WR.

(12-03-2018, 02:18 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: I thought about not keeping Green in the core group due to injury history but the guy is a freak of nature in talent.  Ross is not the answer and I am still pissed the team drafted Ross over O.J. Howard TE.  I think when the team drafts a new QB after replacing the HC and hopefully Mike Steps down, they will need another awesome WR.

The Bengals like shiny objects. When Ross was projected to be a 2nd Round pick then ran the fast 40 time...it was pretty obvious the Bengals would take him at 8!

(12-03-2018, 02:20 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Bengals like shiny objects. When Ross was projected to be a 2nd Round pick then ran the fast 40 time...it was pretty obvious the Bengals would take him at 8!

The plan for Ross was to send him deep and let Dalton let it loose.  But that all changed when the O-Line went to hell. Dalton has one of the quickest releases in the NFL.  Not enough time to really use Ross at his fullest potential.  But Still, Howard was there so was Foster.  Thank God they didn't take Foster.  

(12-03-2018, 02:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The plan for Ross was to send him deep and let Dalton let it loose.  But that all changed when the O-Line went to hell. Dalton has one of the quickest releases in the NFL.  Not enough time to really use Ross at his fullest potential.  But Still, Howard was there so was Foster.  Thank God they didn't take Foster.  

Well...they try to use Ross like Green...but Ross is a lot shorter and the deep passes are easier to defend on him than a guy like Green who can go up and get it.

Plus, Ross's combine speed doesn't seem to translate to the NFL.

(12-03-2018, 02:38 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well...they try to use Ross like Green...but Ross is a lot shorter and the deep passes are easier to defend on him than a guy like Green who can go up and get it.

Plus, Ross's combine speed doesn't seem to translate to the NFL.

Ross has not learned to go for the ball.  Green is a freak in the way he catches throws.  Ross stops on routes and doesn't help his QB out.  I don't think he grasps the expectations at his position well which led him to Lewis's dog house early in his tenure with the Bengals.  Ross is too small for crossing routes and could get killed if Dalton throws the ball high over the middle.  

(12-03-2018, 02:42 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Ross has not learned to go for the ball.  Green is a freak in the way he catches throws.  Ross stops on routes and doesn't help his QB out.  I don't think he grasps the expectations at his position well which led him to Lewis's dog house early in his tenure with the Bengals.  Ross is too small for crossing routes and could get killed if Dalton throws the ball high over the middle.  

I think that's part of it...but I think another part of it is that 4.2 speed in college is a game change. CB's generally don't cover you that tight there. You may be 2 yards open. With that speed 3-5 yards open.

In the Pro's they're fast too and they can get physical to negate that speed and they can bring a safety over top. The DB's in the Pro's are 6 foot 1 also or 6 foot 2. So they're bigger than Ross.

I think it's a huge transition and I don't think he's able to mentally handle it.

(12-03-2018, 02:45 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I think that's part of it...but I think another part of it is that 4.2 speed in college is a game change. CB's generally don't cover you that tight there. You may be 2 yards open. With that speed 3-5 yards open.

In the Pro's they're fast too and they can get physical to negate that speed and they can bring a safety over top. The DB's in the Pro's are 6 foot 1 also or 6 foot 2. So they're bigger than Ross.

I think it's a huge transition and I don't think he's able to mentally handle it.

Ross has had issues but the single biggest issue is the pathetic way they have used him.  Hell, if they used him like Gruden used to use Baby Hawk, he'd have way more production. 

And how shocking it is that a five ten guy isn't leaping up and snagging overthrown deep balls out of the sky.  

(12-03-2018, 02:58 PM)McC Wrote: Ross has had issues but the single biggest issue is the pathetic way they have used him.  Hell, if they used him like Gruden used to use Baby Hawk, he'd have way more production. 

And how shocking it is that a five ten guy isn't leaping up and snagging overthrown deep balls out of the sky.  

Without a doubt !

In fact this applies to a bunch of players/things on this team.

(12-03-2018, 02:23 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: The plan for Ross was to send him deep and let Dalton let it loose.  But that all changed when the O-Line went to hell. Dalton has one of the quickest releases in the NFL.  Not enough time to really use Ross at his fullest potential.  But Still, Howard was there so was Foster.  Thank God they didn't take Foster.  

To be clear. the OL did not 'go to hell'. The OL was mismanaged. As much as there was a 'plan' for Ross there was a lack of plan to sustain the OL.

But this is typical of a Mike Brown team - never has all the pieces just some. And by the time one area has the pieces another area is shot.

(12-02-2018, 09:06 PM)jason Wrote: Helluva catch and run today...

.....coupled with another crucial drop.

(12-03-2018, 02:05 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: No one is saying is career is over! Also how many players have been forced to retire because of this injury? He will be back probably in better shape than he has ever been.

It was being discussed yesterday on the radio. His turf toe issue won't ever fully heal. It's a matter of how much pain he can tolerate, and by the looks of yesterday there's not much left in that foot.

Turf toe has shortened many careers. Nothing they said seemed outrageous.

(12-03-2018, 04:00 PM)jj22 Wrote: It was being discussed yesterday on the radio. His turf toe issue won't ever fully heal. It's a matter of how much pain he can tolerate, and by the looks of yesterday there's not much left in that foot.

Turf toe has shortened many careers. Nothing they said seemed outrageous.

We're they talking to a doctor?

(12-03-2018, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: With turf toe ending the careers of some of the greatest players in the league, I'm not sure we can consider Green apart of the core moving forward. He may never finish a year again and there's fear he may never get back 100%.

Boyd is the future, and we need to extend him and look for Greens replacement and quick.

At 31 with his toe issue, his career may be over. That turf toe is like the dreaded "deep bone bruise".

I hate to say it but I agree.  At 15 million next year and 12mill against the cap it may be time to move on and free up space for new blood.  Weather we like it or not it may be time for a complete rebuild.  And Mixon and Boyd would be at the heart of it.

(12-03-2018, 01:10 PM)jj22 Wrote: With turf toe ending the careers of some of the greatest players in the league, I'm not sure we can consider Green apart of the core moving forward. He may never finish a year again and there's fear he may never get back 100%.

Boyd is the future, and we need to extend him and look for Greens replacement and quick.

At 31 with his toe issue, his career may be over. That turf toe is like the dreaded "deep bone bruise".

I can only find Jack Lambert and that happened in the early 80's, before laser scanning and orthotics.  His injury is not career threatening.