So I have a theory shared by some others like Shake...that if Ross and Hill were swapped that Ross would be putting up huge numbers and Hill wouldn't be.

The Bengals run Ross deep a lot like AJ Green. The problem is, he's not tall enough to battle CB's for the ball and his speed doesn't equate to him being wide open.

He should be used on slants and quick passes underneath that allow him to run with the ball. He might get matched up on LB's for some of those.

He has 18 receptions for 200 yards, but 6 TD's.

Most of his TD catches are short. Which shows he can get open on short passes. Throw to him short and let him get YAC.

Line him up at RB and put him in motion so the DB's can't jam him.

Be creative!

(12-11-2018, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I have a theory shared by some others like Shake...that if Ross and Hill were swapped that Ross would be putting up huge numbers and Hill wouldn't be.

The Bengals run Ross deep a lot like AJ Green. The problem is, he's not tall enough to battle CB's for the ball and his speed doesn't equate to him being wide open.

He should be used on slants and quick passes underneath that allow him to run with the ball. He might get matched up on LB's for some of those.

He has 18 receptions for 200 yards, but 6 TD's.

Most of his TD catches are short. Which shows he can get open on short passes. Throw to him short and let him get YAC.

Line him up at RB and put him in motion so the DB's can't jam him.

Be creative!

I agree with what you say but also think your last statement is a basis for answering your own question. I don’t believe Lazor is a creative coach. His sets, and play calls are very vanilla and old school. Our coaches and their schemes are not evolving with the way the game is being played. Sad waste of talent

(12-11-2018, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I have a theory shared by some others like Shake...that if Ross and Hill were swapped that Ross would be putting up huge numbers and Hill wouldn't be.

The Bengals run Ross deep a lot like AJ Green. The problem is, he's not tall enough to battle CB's for the ball and his speed doesn't equate to him being wide open.

He should be used on slants and quick passes underneath that allow him to run with the ball. He might get matched up on LB's for some of those.

He has 18 receptions for 200 yards, but 6 TD's.

Most of his TD catches are short. Which shows he can get open on short passes. Throw to him short and let him get YAC.

Line him up at RB and put him in motion so the DB's can't jam him.

Be creative!

I've been saying this since before he was drafted when defending that he's more than just a deep threat. The dude caught 17 TDs his final year at Washington, most were inside the red zone. He has elite agility and it's being underutilized.

(12-11-2018, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I have a theory shared by some others like Shake...that if Ross and Hill were swapped that Ross would be putting up huge numbers and Hill wouldn't be.

The Bengals run Ross deep a lot like AJ Green. The problem is, he's not tall enough to battle CB's for the ball and his speed doesn't equate to him being wide open.

He should be used on slants and quick passes underneath that allow him to run with the ball. He might get matched up on LB's for some of those.

He has 18 receptions for 200 yards, but 6 TD's.

Most of his TD catches are short. Which shows he can get open on short passes. Throw to him short and let him get YAC.

Line him up at RB and put him in motion so the DB's can't jam him.

Be creative!

  Most anybody on this board could watch 10 minutes of video of 3-4 teams in this league that have world-class speedsters on their team let alone one that drafted the kid high in the 1st round and find some schematic to implement Ross in to take advantage of his strengths and create mismatches...

Completely agree. It’s crazy how much of a disparity there with him between the 20’s than in the RZ. Kid obviously has a lot of talent. When it’s not being fully utilized that’s coaching.

Ain't no mystery !

This coaching staffs ineptitude defies any logic.

(12-11-2018, 11:27 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So I have a theory shared by some others like Shake...that if Ross and Hill were swapped that Ross would be putting up huge numbers and Hill wouldn't be.

The Bengals run Ross deep a lot like AJ Green. The problem is, he's not tall enough to battle CB's for the ball and his speed doesn't equate to him being wide open.

He should be used on slants and quick passes underneath that allow him to run with the ball. He might get matched up on LB's for some of those.

He has 18 receptions for 200 yards, but 6 TD's.

Most of his TD catches are short. Which shows he can get open on short passes. Throw to him short and let him get YAC.

Line him up at RB and put him in motion so the DB's can't jam him.

Be creative!

You are right Pistons. They have tried a couple of times to get him going on the short routes underneath but either he screws it up by stopping or not getting to where he needs to be.

Ross and Hill are different players. If we were to swap Ross for Hill it would be a noticeable upgrade for us. I also believe Ross would be more productive in KC than he has been here but that is mostly a product of playing in a better offense.

Keep in mind that misuse never explains dogging it on routes, or outright quitting them. Also doesn't explain not fighting for footballs and watching them intercepted.

Far too often do mediocre/slow CBs seem to be in blanket coverage on Ross on deep routes.

(12-11-2018, 01:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Keep in mind that misuse never explains dogging it on routes, or outright quitting them. Also doesn't explain not fighting for footballs and watching them intercepted.

Far too often do mediocre/slow CBs seem to be in blanket coverage on Ross on deep routes.

Correct as he's now been officially Bungle-ized...

(12-11-2018, 01:16 PM)higgy100 Wrote: Correct as he's now been officially Bungle-ized...

The very first route he ran (or was it the first pass sent his way?) his rookie season he gave up on.

That has nothing to do with Bungle-izing. At that point it was something he showed up with.

(12-11-2018, 01:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Keep in mind that misuse never explains dogging it on routes, or outright quitting them. Also doesn't explain not fighting for footballs and watching them intercepted.

Far too often do mediocre/slow CBs seem to be in blanket coverage on Ross on deep routes.

The low effort plays can be a couple of different things.  Ross is basically used to be a decoy on outside fly routes to open things up inside between the 20's.  It can either be frustration with his role or he simply gasses from running so many deep fly patterns that he has to take plays off.

The way Ross is used, he's supposed to draw the S to the boundry.  That makes it easy for the CB to wall him off against the sideline and neutralize his speed.   In college, his main success came on deep posts and flag routes.  Those don't enable the defender to use the sideline and allow Ross to use his quick feet to generate separation on his break.  It also doesn't narrow the QB's throwing window like the sideline fly routes do.

I never got why we don't run jet sweeps, reverses and screens for him. You would think he would want him to have the ball in his hands more often.

I agree. I think there is an issue with low confidence in his play, but he has shown the ability to consistently get open in red zone and goal line situations, which is arguably the hardest part of the field to get open in.

I think he is a fine receiver, but the routes he runs outside of the red zone seem to only focus on his speed. He has a full route tree and good YAC skills. Get him the ball on shorter passes and let him work. I’d be interested to see what his production looks like.

(12-11-2018, 12:11 PM)sandwedge Wrote: You are right Pistons. They have tried a couple of times to get him going on the short routes underneath but either he screws it up by stopping or not getting to where he needs to be.

(12-11-2018, 01:13 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Keep in mind that misuse never explains dogging it on routes, or outright quitting them. Also doesn't explain not fighting for footballs and watching them intercepted.

Far too often do mediocre/slow CBs seem to be in blanket coverage on Ross on deep routes.

Yep, and he quit on another one Sunday.  I want to root for the kid, but the more I watch, the more I want to move on.

Normally, I'd be all over the coaches.....but I really can't blame them for not trusting him at this point.

(12-11-2018, 01:46 PM)Whatever Wrote: The low effort plays can be a couple of different things.  Ross is basically used to be a decoy on outside fly routes to open things up inside between the 20's.  It can either be frustration with his role or he simply gasses from running so many deep fly patterns that he has to take plays off.

The way Ross is used, he's supposed to draw the S to the boundry.  That makes it easy for the CB to wall him off against the sideline and neutralize his speed.   In college, his main success came on deep posts and flag routes.  Those don't enable the defender to use the sideline and allow Ross to use his quick feet to generate separation on his break.  It also doesn't narrow the QB's throwing window like the sideline fly routes do.

Be a pro

(12-11-2018, 01:04 PM)HuDey Wrote: Ross and Hill are different players. If we were to swap Ross for Hill it would be a noticeable upgrade for us. I also believe Ross would be more productive in KC than he has been here but that is mostly a product of playing in a better offense.

This is pretty much my opinion as well.

Hill would be better than Ross here for sure as he has shown to be a more all-around player with punt returns.

Ross would be better in KC than has been here, but he would not be as good as Hill is there. He would simply benefit from a better coaching staff, better team, and a better QB this season.

And though Hill would be better than Ross here, Hill would not be better than if he was in KC for those reasons above ie coaching and qb.

(12-11-2018, 12:11 PM)sandwedge Wrote: You are right Pistons. They have tried a couple of times to get him going on the short routes underneath but either he screws it up by stopping or not getting to where he needs to be.

(12-11-2018, 01:30 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The very first route he ran (or was it the first pass sent his way?) his rookie season he gave up on.

That has nothing to do with Bungle-izing. At that point it was something he showed up with.

(12-11-2018, 02:24 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, and he quit on another one Sunday.  I want to root for the kid, but the more I watch, the more I want to move on.

Normally, I'd be all over the coaches.....but I really can't blame them for not trusting him at this point.

Thank you guys.

I am waiting for some people here to blame the bad weather on bengals coaches.  If the coaches were as bad as they claimed then we would have a lot of players become stars when they go to other teams, but that just does not happen very often at all.  Plus therev have been several players who got better when they left another team and came to the Bengals.

Hill has great hands and doesn't give up.

Ross not so much of either trait.

But with Merv has HC who knows what he can really do.

(12-11-2018, 02:27 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: Be a pro

Keep grinding, and do your job.