In 70 pass blocking reps he hasn't given up a single pressure...mostly playing left guard. He graded out on PFF at 80.6 in run blocking and 78.6 in pass blocking. Can he just not play well on the right side? I can not believe that he has been considered a worse player than Redmond

(12-11-2018, 12:57 AM)pally Wrote: In 70 pass blocking reps he hasn't given up a single pressure...mostly playing left guard.  He graded out on PFF at 80.6 in run blocking and 78.6 in pass blocking.  Can he just not play well on the right side?  I can not believe that he has been considered a worse player than Redmond

He was 15 pounds under his normal weight at start of the season from food poisoning or something like that. He is most likely just getting back up to par. Would love it if he can lock down LG and keep that spot.

I was rarely get on hype trains such as Westerman, Tate etc. I don’t think Westerman is a great player but I don’t think it’s possible anymore for Westerman to be worse than Redmond. Redmond allows one of the highest pressure rates in the league and has multiple idiotic pentailites evey single game. I have know idea how pff works but from a causal observing standpoint everytime Westerman plays he looks pretty good and grades out well too. It’s honselty brutal watching Redmond and Bobby Hart play football. It’s like they try to out do each other evey week as to who can be more awful at football.

(12-11-2018, 12:57 AM)pally Wrote: In 70 pass blocking reps he hasn't given up a single pressure...mostly playing left guard.  He graded out on PFF at 80.6 in run blocking and 78.6 in pass blocking.  Can he just not play well on the right side?  I can not believe that he has been considered a worse player than Redmond

I have watched the line all year, each time he has played he manned his post well, he had one penalty only in all the games he played.  He has not had any problems  on or off the field.

We've always got to have at least one player or more widely viewed as under used and THE player who could potentially be the game changer to replace one or more other player(s) everyone loves to hate. 
Mark my words. Westerman will want to leave in free agency and become a pro bowler for New England and every fan who ever thought he should play will say in hind sight, "I told you so!"

Every former Bengals player who has ever left in free agency has gone to NE and become the greatest super star ever known. (not really, but it fits a certain narrative popular among certain fans)

(12-11-2018, 05:54 AM)grampahol Wrote: We've always got to have at least one player or more widely viewed as under used and THE player who could potentially be the game changer to replace one or more other player(s) everyone loves to hate. 
Mark my words. Westerman will want to leave in free agency and become a pro bowler for New England and every fan who ever thought he should play will say in hind sight, "I told you so!"

Every former Bengals player who has ever left in free agency has gone to NE and become the greatest super star ever known. (not really, but it fits a certain narrative popular among certain fans)

I understand you are exaggerating to make the point ...and some do mistakenly believe the coaches are sitting on an undiscovered treasure chest of players not being utilized.

With Westerman I really do not see the down side of giving him a go at this stage.

He played at the end of last regular season and looked good (better than redmond in my opinion) , it has been a problem area for 3 years now , we've lost our starting QB and the season is heading south anyway..

The main annoying thing for me with the OLine for the last 2-3 years is not that there is an all pro in waiting on the bench but that we seem to have a fixed view of the line pre-season , it then stinks the place out, yet we only do something when we are forced to with injuries and stumble on a more effective line.

Pick the best 5 players and get them on the field...I do not care if Boling is listed as OG, if he is the best option at LT play him there. If Westerman is one of the two best guards get him on the field and I do not care if that LG or RG.  I don't care where Ced or Fish were drafted if they are not the best 5 OL they don't get game time

Didn't Westerman miss the block on the extra point attempt?

(12-11-2018, 10:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Didn't Westerman miss the block on the extra point attempt?

Pretty sure it was him.....but other than that, I think he played well.

I said before the season started that if Westerman doesn't end up a starter at OG, something went wrong with the season.
I don't know why he can't carve out time at RG, but perhaps this team needs to consider just keeping him at LG then and putting Boling elsewhere. If Boling is at LT, perhaps Glenn goes to RG or RT. He's big enough and used to play OG in college (albeit LG).

Best line might be....
Boling - Westerman - Hopkins/Price - Glenn - Smith

(12-11-2018, 12:57 AM)pally Wrote: In 70 pass blocking reps he hasn't given up a single pressure...mostly playing left guard.  He graded out on PFF at 80.6 in run blocking and 78.6 in pass blocking.  Can he just not play well on the right side?  I can not believe that he has been considered a worse player than Redmond

Don't forget it was Redmond's false start penalty that killed a possible TD against SD on 4th and goal at the 1.... 

(12-11-2018, 02:22 AM)lone bengal Wrote: I was rarely get on hype trains such as Westerman, Tate etc. I don’t think Westerman is a great player  but I don’t think it’s possible anymore for Westerman to be worse than Redmond. Redmond allows one of the highest pressure rates in the league and has multiple idiotic pentailites evey single game. I have know idea how pff works but from a causal observing standpoint every time Westerman plays he looks pretty good and grades out well too. It’s honselty brutal watching Redmond and Bobby Hart play football. It’s like they try to out do each other evey week as to who can be more awful at football.

I'm not saying he i going to be a star or anything but considering how he has performed when in a game situation, I simply have a hard time believing he is not one of the 5 best OL players.  Especially when penalty machine Redmond is the starting RG. 

I truly wonder if part of the problem is that he can't play the right side.

Well i would assume he has not been effective on right side and he did have a terrible preseason with health and got behind right off the bat. I dont buy into PFF as much as others since we never totally know the schemes and calls and still a limited number of snaps to justify overall rating but if he starts the last three games against 2 good defense lines in Cleveland Pittsburgh and performs well, it does give you a bit more depth next year at Guard and possible move of Bolin to tackle on a longer term basis

(12-11-2018, 12:57 AM)pally Wrote: In 70 pass blocking reps he hasn't given up a single pressure...mostly playing left guard.  He graded out on PFF at 80.6 in run blocking and 78.6 in pass blocking.  Can he just not play well on the right side?  I can not believe that he has been considered a worse player than Redmond

Preach Pally, preach. Only thing i can think of is Westerman cannot play RG for some reason and is considered
only a LG. Played good everytime i have watched him, think we should go to a line of this now the that season
is essentially done...

LT - Boling
LG - Westerman
C - Price
RG - Redmond or Hopkins
RT - Glenn (if he is healthy enough) otherwise Hart

Still like the idea of putting Price at RG and have Hopkins play Center where he clearly looks better. This might
actually get Redmond off the field and we might be much better.

(12-11-2018, 02:43 PM)pally Wrote: I'm not saying he i going to be a star or anything but considering how he has performed when in a game situation, I simply have a hard time believing he is not one of the 5 best OL players.  Especially when penalty machine Redmond is the starting RG. 

I truly wonder if part of the problem is that he can't play the right side.

That may be the case.   We have no idea how he looks in practice.   But I doubt this, and get the idea that they haven't given him any reps there.

The Bengals seem to have a habit of being very rigid in their thinking.   In this case it seems like their thinking:

• Westerman has been designated as the backup left guard.  That's where all his reps are
• Redmond has been tantalizing with his strength and nastiness in the running game (though he has had major problems with penalties and pressures).  If he just gets a few more reps there his shortcomings will go away.
• Hopkins has been the backup right guard so they're reluctant to play Westerman there
• Hopkins is the more experienced player.  Ergo he is the logical choice to put at left guard in place of Westerman, though I think they finally  saw that Westerman was better there.
  

What frustrates me is that Westerman - with few exceptions - has looked really good when he has played.   A mistake for him results in his being black balled.   Consistent mistakes by other players are always excused - especially Redmond.

And I have the feeling that the decision-maker here isn't Pollack but Lewis.

Could be wrong.   But this is my take.

(12-11-2018, 03:11 PM)3wt Wrote: That may be the case.   We have no idea how he looks in practice.   But I doubt this, and get the idea that they haven't given him any reps there.

The Bengals seem to have a habit of being very rigid in their thinking.   In this case it seems like their thinking:

• Westerman has been designated as the backup left guard.  That's where all his reps are
• Redmond has been tantalizing with his strength and nastiness in the running game (though he has had major problems with penalties and pressures).  If he just gets a few more reps there his shortcomings will go away.
• Hopkins has been the backup right guard so they're reluctant to play Westerman there
• Hopkins is the more experienced player.  Ergo he is the logical choice to put at left guard in place of Westerman, though I think they finally  saw that Westerman was better there.
  

What frustrates me is that Westerman - with few exceptions - has looked really good when he has played.   A mistake for him results in his being black balled.   Consistent mistakes by other players are always excused - especially Redmond.

And I have the feeling that the decision-maker here isn't Pollack but Lewis.

Could be wrong.   But this is my take.

There are certain guys on this team who can fail miserably with no consequences.  It's always been that way with Marv.  He is a big bellied juvenile.

(12-11-2018, 03:11 PM)3wt Wrote: That may be the case.   We have no idea how he looks in practice.   But I doubt this, and get the idea that they haven't given him any reps there.

The Bengals seem to have a habit of being very rigid in their thinking.   In this case it seems like their thinking:

• Westerman has been designated as the backup left guard.  That's where all his reps are
• Redmond has been tantalizing with his strength and nastiness in the running game (though he has had major problems with penalties and pressures).  If he just gets a few more reps there his shortcomings will go away.
• Hopkins has been the backup right guard so they're reluctant to play Westerman there
• Hopkins is the more experienced player.  Ergo he is the logical choice to put at left guard in place of Westerman, though I think they finally  saw that Westerman was better there.
  

What frustrates me is that Westerman - with few exceptions - has looked really good when he has played.   A mistake for him results in his being black balled.   Consistent mistakes by other players are always excused - especially Redmond.

And I have the feeling that the decision-maker here isn't Pollack but Lewis.

Could be wrong.   But this is my take.

(12-11-2018, 09:31 PM)McC Wrote: There are certain guys on this team who can fail miserably with no consequences.  It's always been that way with Marv.  He is a big bellied juvenile.

This does seem to be the case. Some players can get away with sucking bad, penalties, etc. and nothing is done. Other players spit on the side walk and it's see ya later ! And Merv is the constant in everything mucked up around here.

Never saw why Hopkins was replaced by Westerman Sunday, but I did read where Pollack is quite happy with the current lineup and is considering sticking with it...

(12-11-2018, 02:51 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Preach Pally, preach. Only thing i can think of is Westerman cannot play RG for some reason and is considered
only a LG. Played good everytime i have watched him, think we should go to a line of this now the that season
is essentially done...

LT - Boling
LG - Westerman
C - Price
RG - Redmond or Hopkins
RT - Glenn (if he is healthy enough) otherwise Hart

Still like the idea of putting Price at RG and have Hopkins play Center where he clearly looks better. This might
actually get Redmond off the field and we might be much better.

You know I've been in the same thoughts as well.

They should've brought Price back at RG and kept Hopkins at Center.

If Smith can produce at even an average level for RT they would be able to rush a lot better that side.

Keep Redmond, Hart, and Ced O on the frickin' bench where they belong.

Glen at LT and Boling back to LG.

Westerman is your shuffle player.  Unless Glen is injured keep Boling at LT and Westerman at LG.

When he plays, he plays well. Sure, keep him on the bench. Makes a stripey kind of sense. He must not be winning practice.

(12-11-2018, 11:00 PM)McC Wrote: When he plays, he plays well.   Sure, keep him on the bench.  Makes a stripey kind of sense.  He must not be winning practice.

Bobby Hart must give some great foot rubs and bring donuts.

Dude looks like someone who stole a uniform and ran out onto the field on gameday.