(12-11-2018, 12:30 PM)Fullrock Wrote: So now we're comparing Driskel to Jamarcus Russell? LOL. Russell was a freak athlete but also a complete turd. There was a story published recently wherr Raiders coaches suspected he was not studying film so they have him blank tapes to take home. The next day he showed up at practice and said he had studied blitz packages.The tapes had nothing on them. Russell was also dumber than a rock. 

Driskel is an intelligent kid. Listen to him talk. And by all accounts he works hard. He's the anti-Jamarcus Russell.

Nope...."we're" not.  No more than I was comparing him to AJM.  The point was, lots of physical specimens have flamed out, the worst being Jamarcus Russell, and QBs from college that have "it", have flamed out.

Right now, Dalton gives us our best shot at being competitive while looking for a future QB at the same time.  Unless they ink a FA QB that is better, that is.  He has a very team friendly contract that allows us to pursue improvement at other positions, and still be competitive while we look for a future QB.  I don't think Driskel is that future, nor do I think he's a starting caliber QB at this level.  Agree to disagree, I guess.

That being said, if they keep them both, then I wouldn't mind an open competition for the starter.  I may very well be wrong, but I think you'll find that 14 would be your starter, regardless of HC.

(12-10-2018, 04:55 PM)Fullrock Wrote: In his second start against one of the best teams in the AFC on the road, Driskel put up what should have been 27 points if you count the 4 points that got taken off the board with a BS non TD call and the 2 extra points that would have been kicked. He did it without AJ, Eifert, Kroft, and a makeshift offensive line. Build the offense around this kid and use his athleticism. Incorporate some zone reads and some run/pass options. He has all the tools to develop into a top tier QB.

Umm, no. He is a good backup and his althleticism is great to have behind a REAL starting QB. His numbers show he is basically the same guys as Andy, which quite frankly isnt cutting it anymore. I dont want another QB that we need the stars to align and surround him with Marvel Comic characters in order for him to be able to function. I want a guy that can carry the team if needed. Not to mention, once defenses scheme for Driskel he will look less than average i can promise you that.

(12-11-2018, 10:43 AM)Fullrock Wrote: The lack of football knowledge in this thread is comical.


Dalton posted less than a 65 QB rating 3 times this year against bad defenses (Carolona, KC, NO), and posted a 70.4 rating in a half against a terrible Browns defense.

Ironic.

The Saints have the 14th ranked defense and the Panthers have the 17th ranked defense. Saints also have the 10th best defense when it comes to PPG. So really wouldn't call those defenses "bad"
Also, if you watched the Carolina game you would know that quite a few of those INTs aren't his fault; including one that was a hail mary.
I get it, you wouldn't know how those INTs happened if you didn't watch the game.

But.
Andy Dalton posted a 100+ QB rating against the Ravens (2nd) and Colts (11th).
Also had above 90+ QB rating aganst the Steelers (7th).

Against the #1 scoring defense and #3 passing defense, Andy Dalton is 48 of 76, with 476 yards, 6 TDs, and 0 INTs.
Oh, and in one of those games he also had the most rushing yards out of everyone on the team.
The Bengals averaged 63.5 yards per game (excluding Dalton). Averaging 3 YPC.

(12-11-2018, 03:23 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Ironic.

The Saints have the 14th ranked defense and the Panthers have the 17th ranked defense. Saints also have the 10th best defense when it comes to PPG. So really wouldn't call those defenses "bad"
Also, if you watched the Carolina game you would know that quite a few of those INTs aren't his fault; including one that was a hail mary.
I get it, you wouldn't know how those INTs happened if you didn't watch the game.

But.
Andy Dalton posted a 100+ QB rating against the Ravens (2nd) and Colts (11th).
Also had above 90+ QB rating aganst the Steelers (7th).

Against the #1 scoring defense and #3 passing defense, Andy Dalton is 48 of 76, with 476 yards, 6 TDs, and 0 INTs.
Oh, and in one of those games he also had the most rushing yards out of everyone on the team.
The Bengals averaged 63.5 yards per game (excluding Dalton). Averaging 3 YPC.

It could be argued that none were his fault, but 3 definitely weren't.  Malone was hit between the numbers, and it was picked off from the deflection.  Two involved John Ross.....one being him quitting on a route, and two being him not putting up much of a fight on a contested ball, which you could say was an errant throw.

(12-10-2018, 04:55 PM)Fullrock Wrote: In his second start against one of the best teams in the AFC on the road, Driskel put up what should have been 27 points if you count the 4 points that got taken off the board with a BS non TD call and the 2 extra points that would have been kicked. He did it without AJ, Eifert, Kroft, and a makeshift offensive line. Build the offense around this kid and use his athleticism. Incorporate some zone reads and some run/pass options. He has all the tools to develop into a top tier QB.

Driskel has talent and maybe used right he could be a top tier QB, but Mixon had a lot to do with scoring those points.

Same with Bullock. I am all for starting the best players, always have been, if Driskel is the best QB next year so be it.

But he is going to have a hard time beating out Dalton regardless who was playing his best season this year before the injury.

The only way Driskel should be the starter next year is if a rookie is brought in and allowed to sit for a year. Lose out, draft a QB top 10, trade Andy for a second (hopefully), and let Dirskel manage the team while the rookie takes a year to learn (and get some better o-linemen in front of him).

Oh the Army gets defensive. Nowhere have I said anyone on this team the last few years should be starting over Andy; I simply recognize when a QB has a good game. The NFL uses passer rating as the tool to rate QBs, so folks will have excuse me if I use it as well.

Driskell has proven the game is not too big for him and he had a fine start (passer rating over 90), with a make shift oline, depleted WR corp against a quality opponents. Folks do realize these are only "excuses" if there is something to excuse, but no excuses need be made for his outing.

Now if Jeff were coming off a playoff game with a rating around 40 then, these facts would be excuses for his poor play. Does anyone see the difference?

Well, we've seen numbers like that and losses that were blamed on the QB against good teams on the road (like NE a few years back, 21/30 254 1/0 RTG 103.4....or 15/24 204 2/0 RTG 117.3), because "reasons".  If anything was mentioned, they were "excuses" then, so by that rationale, they're "excuses" now.  No Army, no cavalry, just noting hypocrisy. 

(12-11-2018, 06:00 PM)Wyche Wrote: Well, we've seen numbers like that and losses that were blamed on the QB against good teams on the road (like NE a few years back, 21/30 254 1/0 RTG 103.4....or 15/24 204 2/0 RTG 117.3), because "reasons".  If anything was mentioned, they were "excuses" then, so by that rationale, they're "excuses" now.  No Army, no cavalry, just noting hypocrisy. 

And I've seen folks in this very thread who are belittling Jeff's performance make excuses for far worse games from a much more seasoned QB.

I suppose the hypocrisy is in the eye of the beholder.

Andy Dalton had similar numbers as Jeff's in his 2nd ever start and I don't recall anyone looking for "reasons" to downplay it. Hell personally I was stoked

(12-11-2018, 04:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: It could be argued that none were his fault, but 3 definitely weren't.  Malone was hit between the numbers, and it was picked off from the deflection.  Two involved John Ross.....one being him quitting on a route, and two being him not putting up much of a fight on a contested ball, which you could say was an errant throw.

PFF actually did numbers on this category. 

Dalton was tied first with Brady and Rodgers for actual interceptions (deflections, batted balls or dropped aren't taken into consideration) with 6.

My biggest hit with Dalton is the lack of risk, but this man has always done a relatively good job at keeping the ball safe. 

(12-11-2018, 08:11 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: Jesus .... i know its pretty bad around here, okay ... really really bad, but is this really the level we are sinking to? Fans getting all thirsty for Driskel .... please cmon people we are better than that.

Reminds me of the AJ McCarron nonsense. All the fans begging for that bum to start, and even Cincinnati media types saying he is gonna get big money in free agency. What a joke.

Sure does and some of the ones who were saying this about AJM are very vocal here as well. 

Now I like Driskell and always said he was plenty good enough to make AJM tradable. Many Driskell lovers now disagreed completely then. Some seem more like Dalton haters now looking back.

Think Dalton is going to be fine (rhymes with one of the former naysayers) but OL was injured and had not developed chemistry yet. Believe most knew they should get better as year went along. 

But for those that say Dalton is not tradable ? Disagree with that as well, somebody will quickly make move. Not certain that is in our best interest unless we are blowing it up and starting over. Think we are closer to becoming good again than that, even as bad as we have looked. 

What I would do is draft a back up QB in 4th or 5th round with potential of becoming good or grab a solid back up in FA. 

Start Dalton and use Driskell like the Saints use Taysom Hill in a "do it all role". Driskell is a way better athlete than Hill and could become a really nice extra weapon immediately. 

Why choose ? Use all our weapons instead and go for the gold for once in our lifetime. 

(12-11-2018, 08:11 AM)Bengalboy Wrote: Jesus .... i know its pretty bad around here, okay ... really really bad, but is this really the level we are sinking to? Fans getting all thirsty for Driskel .... please cmon people we are better than that.

Reminds me of the AJ McCarron nonsense. All the fans begging for that bum to start, and even Cincinnati media types saying he is gonna get big money in free agency. What a joke.

This has been going on since the dawn of time. It's frustrating. Did it with AJM. He's on the bench behind a horrific Oakland team and couldn't even start in Buffalo.

They did it with Palmer. 

I'm so sick of arguing with people. I swear this fan base might be more aggravatingng than most opposing ones. 

(12-11-2018, 10:43 AM)Fullrock Wrote: The lack of football knowledge in this thread is comical.

Driskel is a 6'4/230 pound freak athlete. He does things on the football field that Dalton simply can't.

Are you serious?  Dalton has shown that he's more than capable as a runner.  The coaching staff just doesn't want Andy to run, because all we have behind him are guys like Jeff Driskell..
But since you brought up talents.  Andy has one of the quickest releases in the league, you don't get that way by not being able to see the field and know where to put the ball, and have the ability to get it there.  Why was Driskell running for his life?  Because he's not smart enough and skilled enough to complete passes in 2.0 seconds or less.
Driskell is a nice guy, and moves well for a big man.  But other than that, he's a lesser talent.  A career backup, you might say.

(12-11-2018, 01:23 PM)Fullrock Wrote: I've been a Dalton supporter, but he just is what he is. Good enough that mediocrity is his ceiling. 

There are a lot of things that can be said in criticism of Dalton, but this is not one of them.

Since 2011 when Dalton entered the league only 10 QBs have posted a single season rating higher than Dalton's 106.2 in 2015.

And only 6 active QBs have more games (min. 20 attempts) with a 125+ rating than Dalton's 14.

Dalton has a high ceiling.

(12-11-2018, 07:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: There are a lot of things that can be said in criticism of Dalton, but this is not one of them.

Since 2011 when Dalton entered the league only 10 QBs have posted a single season rating higher than Dalton's 106.2 in 2015.

And only 6 active QBs have more games (min. 20 attempts) with a 125+ rating than Dalton's 14.

Dalton has a high ceiling.

Andy Dalton is also 45-1-2 when the Bengals score 25+ points.

Andy Dalton also ranks 17th in 4th quarter comebacks all time. Among starters, he ranks 7th. No one drafted after 2009 has as many or more than Dalton. And only two players ahead of Dalton were drafted after 2004. And Dalton came into the league in 2011.

Dalton has more 4th quarter comebacks than: Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, Cam Newton, Alex Smith, and Joe Flacco.

Andy Dalton is also the quickest player to reach 20 fourth quarter comebacks in less than 7 seasons. No one else has come close.

(12-11-2018, 07:24 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Andy Dalton is also 45-1-2 when the Bengals score 25+ points.

Andy Dalton also ranks 17th in 4th quarter comebacks all time. Among starters, he ranks 7th. No one drafted after 2009 has as many or more than Dalton. And only two players ahead of Dalton were drafted after 2004. And Dalton came into the league in 2011.

Dalton has more 4th quarter comebacks than: Aaron Rodgers, Russel Wilson, Cam Newton, Alex Smith, and Joe Flacco.

Andy Dalton is also the quickest player to reach 20 fourth quarter comebacks in less than 7 seasons. No one else has come close.

You guys just don't know Football. 

(12-11-2018, 07:29 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: You guys just don't know Football. 

No argument here, they know regular season Andy very well. 

(12-11-2018, 07:32 PM)Millhouse Wrote: No argument here, they know regular season Andy very well. 

I bet.

I know the regular and post season Bengals well.

Two different animals. 

As I always point to those who READILY blame Dalton for our issues, Golden Boy Palmer had same issues. He left here, played around for a few seasons and was just short of a SB.

But....I digress.

(12-11-2018, 07:34 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I bet.

I know the regular and post season Bengals well.

Two different animals. 

As I always point to those who READILY blame Dalton for our issues, Golden Boy Palmer had same issues. He left here, played around for a few seasons and was just short of a SB.

But....I digress.

Driskel is helping his stock...  But definitely needs more time before id give up Dalton to roll with him unless next year is a gut rebuild and get a great draft pick year.

(12-11-2018, 07:29 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: You guys just don't know Football. 

I may not know football, but I do know Andy's 4th quarter passer ratings over the last 3 years have been:

73.3

76.7
78.7



But what I do know is time and 2015 was a long time ago.