Ok folks here's the bottom line: If you do not like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown then why do you like Andy Dalton?

You can bring up all the stats you want on Andy but this is the fact: He is the consummate company man! He does everything Marvin and Mike wants him to do. Without question or controversy!

It wasn't long ago we had a top notch QB that had enough of the coaching in Cincinnati that he made a stand! Mike chose Marvin. Carson chose retirement. Andy is who he is. He is not gonna change with a new coach, he proved that with Gruden, Hue and Lazor. When you get to the playoffs you play great teams. Usually games are decided not by what stats you post for the game but that ONE great play you made to win it

I find it funny that everyone is already to throw Jeff Driskel on the scrap heap. I'm excited to see what he does the rest of the year. I think already he has helped with the running game! Opposing defenses are having to respect the RPO now more than ever. DE have to stay home and LBer's cant just crash the line of scrimmage in fear of the QB keeping and running the ball. I think it has helped Mixon find a ton of more running room!

It's funny watching what some other teams do sometimes isn't it? John Harbaugh has decided if he's gonna make the playoffs and make a run he had to set Flacco on the bench and roll with Jackson. Andy Reid decided that Alex Smith wasn't gonna get him to where he needed to be so he drafted, then traded his starter, and inserted Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes your starter isn't a bad quarterback but you realize he just isn't the guy that you need to get you where you want to be! Here in Cincinnati! Just tow the company line!

(12-13-2018, 11:18 PM)Fullrock Wrote: When you have a career QB rating below the NFL average, it aint rocket science. Some of you need a lesson in common sense. 

Dalton's career QB rating is like 16th in NFL history. I don't see how tha'ts below the NFL average

(12-14-2018, 10:38 AM)Wyche Wrote: Yep, great performance.  I was there.  Too bad the game plan was complete shit and let Butt Fumble beat us one week after we played them.  Too bad we went away from Law Firm in the SD playoff game when his career average against them was around 5 YPC.  Too bad our coaching staff decided to use AJ Green as a decoy in game one against Houston.  Too bad Rey Maualuga made Owen Daniel look like the clone of Kellen Winslow, SR ('member when the game was out of hand, and they put Skuta on him, and he actually covered him?).  Too bad "rational folks" think Mediocre Merv is infallible in all of these stupid ass bullshit coaching moves, and that they must have been the QB's decision.


Also, by contrast, surefire HOFer, Pig Pen, has posted the following stats in playoff WINS:

17/30 181 yds, 2 INTs, 1 TD, 57.8 rating

(14/24 226 yds, 3 INTs, 78.1 rating lost the next week)

9/21 123 yds, 2 INTs, 0 TDs, 22.1 rating......WON THE SUPERBOWL

10/19 133 yds, 2 INTs, 0 TDs, 33.5 rating

20/31 224 ydsm 1 INT, 0 TDs, 72.5 rating

These were all wins, there were losses with comparable numbers, and a whole lot of 70s ratings that I didn't post.  Gee, I wonder how they won in a TEAM sport with such PISS POOR numbers.....much worse than our QBs have lost posting.  Couldn't be that the team rallied around the QB and picked up his slack, could it?  Couldn't be that the coaching staff actually had some answers for the opponent, instead of staring blankly across the field while breathing through their mouth, could it?  Nah.....no way.....couldn't be.  

Also, Peyton Manning posted the following ratings in playoff games:

62.3, 31.3, 35.5, 69.3, 71.9, 56.6......the last being a Super Bowl victory.

Clearly, Ben Roethlisberger and Peyton Manning are shitty QBs and need replaced.

(12-14-2018, 12:20 PM)falsestart Wrote: Ok folks here's the bottom line: If you do not like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown then why do you like Andy Dalton?

You can bring up all the stats you want on Andy but this is the fact: He is the consummate company man! He does everything Marvin and Mike wants him to do. Without question or controversy!

It wasn't long ago we had a top notch QB that had enough of the coaching in Cincinnati that he made a stand! Mike chose Marvin. Carson chose retirement. Andy is who he is. He is not gonna change with a new coach, he proved that with Gruden, Hue and Lazor. When you get to the playoffs you play great teams. Usually games are decided not by what stats you post for the game but that ONE great play you made to win it

I find it funny that everyone is already to throw Jeff Driskel on the scrap heap. I'm excited to see what he does the rest of the year. I think already he has helped with the running game! Opposing defenses are having to respect the RPO now more than ever. DE have to stay home and LBer's cant just crash the line of scrimmage in fear of the QB keeping and running the ball. I think it has helped Mixon find a ton of more running room!

It's funny watching what some other teams do sometimes isn't it? John Harbaugh has decided if he's gonna make the playoffs and make a run he had to set Flacco on the bench and roll with Jackson. Andy Reid decided that Alex Smith wasn't gonna get him to where he needed to be so he drafted, then traded his starter, and inserted Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes your starter isn't a bad quarterback but you realize he just isn't the guy that you need to get you where you want to be! Here in Cincinnati! Just tow the company line!

Jackson was inserted as the starter because Flacco got hurt, not really a tough decision is it.......

(12-14-2018, 12:34 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Jackson was inserted as the starter because Flacco got hurt, not really a tough decision is it.......

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/12/12/john-harbaugh-confirms-lamar-jackson-will-start-joe-flacco-no-2/

(12-14-2018, 11:49 AM)PhilHos Wrote: 2 things:
1) There are lamer excuses
2) Considering the ENTIRE team - including our supposedly ELITE defense - has shit the bed in every playoff game, I don't see how anyone can blame someone OTHER than the HC. (Case-in-point: the gameplan in one of those games was to avoid going to AJ for the entire first half)

Yeah, the playoff games really have been a complete fustercluck all the way around.

The offenses have been held to 300 or less total yards 5 times and the offensive lines gave up 22 sacks.

The defenses allowed 144 or more yards rushing 6 times and allowed opposing QB's to complete 69% of their passes.

The team failed to score a point for a complete half 5 different times (4 times in the 2nd, once in the 1st).

There are individual players here and there who played well, but as a whole, these teams have looked unprepared and overmatched. There have been different QB's, different coordinators, different backs, receivers, etc...but only one HC, and under his direction the results have been consistently and embarrassingly bad. That's not a coincidence, it's a failure of leadership and coaching ability.

(12-14-2018, 01:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the playoff games really have been a complete fustercluck all the way around.

The offenses have been held to 300 or less total yards 5 times and the offensive lines gave up 22 sacks.

The defenses allowed 144 or more yards rushing 6 times and allowed opposing QB's to complete 69% of their passes.

The team failed to score a point for a complete half 5 different times (4 times in the 2nd, once in the 1st).

There are individual players here and there played well, but as a whole, these teams have looked unprepared and overmatched. There have been different QB's, different coordinators, different backs, receivers, etc...but only one HC, and under his direction the results have been consistently and embarrassingly bad. That's not a coincidence, it's a failure of leadership and coaching ability.

According to bfine, you're being irrational.

(12-14-2018, 12:20 PM)falsestart Wrote: Ok folks here's the bottom line: If you do not like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown then why do you like Andy Dalton?

You can bring up all the stats you want on Andy but this is the fact: He is the consummate company man! He does everything Marvin and Mike wants him to do. Without question or controversy!

It wasn't long ago we had a top notch QB that had enough of the coaching in Cincinnati that he made a stand! Mike chose Marvin. Carson chose retirement. Andy is who he is. He is not gonna change with a new coach, he proved that with Gruden, Hue and Lazor. When you get to the playoffs you play great teams. Usually games are decided not by what stats you post for the game but that ONE great play you made to win it

I find it funny that everyone is already to throw Jeff Driskel on the scrap heap. I'm excited to see what he does the rest of the year. I think already he has helped with the running game! Opposing defenses are having to respect the RPO now more than ever. DE have to stay home and LBer's cant just crash the line of scrimmage in fear of the QB keeping and running the ball. I think it has helped Mixon find a ton of more running room!

It's funny watching what some other teams do sometimes isn't it? John Harbaugh has decided if he's gonna make the playoffs and make a run he had to set Flacco on the bench and roll with Jackson. Andy Reid decided that Alex Smith wasn't gonna get him to where he needed to be so he drafted, then traded his starter, and inserted Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes your starter isn't a bad quarterback but you realize he just isn't the guy that you need to get you where you want to be! Here in Cincinnati! Just tow the company line!

Lots of good points....but Palmer's beef was with Mikey, according to his "A Football Life" story.  The first thing we gotta do is overhaul the coaching staff.  I mean, these Stooler, primetime, playoff losses across 16 years aren't coincidences.  I have maintained for years that there is no way we've just been unlucky to CONSTANTLY draft, sign, and trade for choke artists across essentially three different rosters.

As for Dalton?  I think he had a pretty damn good run under Hue as OC.

As for Driskel?  I'm not ready to put him on the scrap heap, I'd like to see him used even if Dalton is starting with both of them on the field at times.  Get creative.  But we don't do creative in Cincinnati.  We'll have none of that "journalistic jargon" in these parts!

(12-14-2018, 12:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Dalton's career QB rating is like 16th in NFL history. I don't see how tha'ts below the NFL average

It's actually 20th, but you simply cannot compare QB rating between different eras with the evolvement of the passing game and rule changes that have benefited the offense and made passing the football easier over the years. For example, Dalton ranks ahead of Dan Marino in career QB rating. Ha, right? Nearly all of the QB's ahead of Dalton are still playing. Those that aren't still playing at least played recently with the exception of Steve Young.

Dalton's career rating is 88.8. The average rating in 2017 was 89.8. 

(12-14-2018, 12:20 PM)falsestart Wrote: Ok folks here's the bottom line: If you do not like Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown then why do you like Andy Dalton?

You can bring up all the stats you want on Andy but this is the fact: He is the consummate company man! He does everything Marvin and Mike wants him to do. Without question or controversy!

It wasn't long ago we had a top notch QB that had enough of the coaching in Cincinnati that he made a stand! Mike chose Marvin. Carson chose retirement. Andy is who he is. He is not gonna change with a new coach, he proved that with Gruden, Hue and Lazor. When you get to the playoffs you play great teams. Usually games are decided not by what stats you post for the game but that ONE great play you made to win it

I find it funny that everyone is already to throw Jeff Driskel on the scrap heap. I'm excited to see what he does the rest of the year. I think already he has helped with the running game! Opposing defenses are having to respect the RPO now more than ever. DE have to stay home and LBer's cant just crash the line of scrimmage in fear of the QB keeping and running the ball. I think it has helped Mixon find a ton of more running room!

It's funny watching what some other teams do sometimes isn't it? John Harbaugh has decided if he's gonna make the playoffs and make a run he had to set Flacco on the bench and roll with Jackson. Andy Reid decided that Alex Smith wasn't gonna get him to where he needed to be so he drafted, then traded his starter, and inserted Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes your starter isn't a bad quarterback but you realize he just isn't the guy that you need to get you where you want to be! Here in Cincinnati! Just tow the company line!

B-I-N-G-O!!

(12-14-2018, 01:34 PM)Wyche Wrote:   But we don't do creative in Cincinnati.  We'll have none of that "journalistic jargon" in these parts!

Dalton is #1 in the league in td receptions by a QB since he has been a starter (8 seasons).








1/2

(12-14-2018, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is #1 in the league in td receptions by a QB since he has been a starter (8 seasons).








1/2

If Dalton were better on special teams, Cody Core would be out of a job.

(12-13-2018, 10:46 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: This explains a lot.

Yep, explains that I have worked with his foundation and see that he's actually a quality human being. 

And a solid Football player 

He was drafted in the second round as a player that needs assets around him. He was never taken to be a Baker, a Manning or any of those. 

(12-14-2018, 01:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the playoff games really have been a complete fustercluck all the way around.

The offenses have been held to 300 or less total yards 5 times and the offensive lines gave up 22 sacks.

The defenses allowed 144 or more yards rushing 6 times and allowed opposing QB's to complete 69% of their passes.

The team failed to score a point for a complete half 5 different times (4 times in the 2nd, once in the 1st).

There are individual players here and there who played well, but as a whole, these teams have looked unprepared and overmatched. There have been different QB's, different coordinators, different backs, receivers, etc...but only one HC, and under his direction the results have been consistently and embarrassingly bad. That's not a coincidence, it's a failure of leadership and coaching ability.

It's not just PO games. It's all/most prime time games. Hell, it's even a lot of 1pm games because "halftime adjustments" usually shut us down until Dalton makes his miraculous late 4th quarter comeback or we just barely hang on. We hardly ever smoke a opponent.

Hence why " it's never easy with this team" hence "cardiac cats".

With this said i'm not opposed to drafting a QB if it's a smart choice nor am i opposed to open competition. Preferably under a new coach not named Hue.

(12-14-2018, 12:01 AM)jason Wrote: Caped Crusader is Jermaine Gresham...

That would explain my idiocy in important moments. 

(12-14-2018, 01:01 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the playoff games really have been a complete fustercluck all the way around.

The offenses have been held to 300 or less total yards 5 times and the offensive lines gave up 22 sacks.

The defenses allowed 144 or more yards rushing 6 times and allowed opposing QB's to complete 69% of their passes.

The team failed to score a point for a complete half 5 different times (4 times in the 2nd, once in the 1st).

There are individual players here and there who played well, but as a whole, these teams have looked unprepared and overmatched. There have been different QB's, different coordinators, different backs, receivers, etc...but only one HC, and under his direction the results have been consistently and embarrassingly bad. That's not a coincidence, it's a failure of leadership and coaching ability.

Spot on !

There's a giant mountain of evidence to the fact that ML led teams get out coached, out schemed, and out play called when it matters most. It's not just this player or that player. This season or that game, this OC that DC. It repeats itself over and over and over again across 16 seasons now.

We come in poorly prepared with bad game plans and little to no innovation. We look unsure and over matched and fold at the slightest adversity. ML wants to play every game in his safe zone where we got out and line up and run our plan no matter what, we either out execute them or fail. No adjusting, no plan B, do it or die !

But people still want to blame the QB, the owner, the weather, the injuries, you name it ?

And the answer is right there for all to see..........The head coach is the constant to the failure.

(12-14-2018, 12:20 PM)falsestart Wrote: It's funny watching what some other teams do sometimes isn't it? John Harbaugh has decided if he's gonna make the playoffs and make a run he had to set Flacco on the bench and roll with Jackson. Andy Reid decided that Alex Smith wasn't gonna get him to where he needed to be so he drafted, then traded his starter, and inserted Patrick Mahomes. Sometimes your starter isn't a bad quarterback but you realize he just isn't the guy that you need to get you where you want to be! Here in Cincinnati! Just tow the company line!

Its funny watching the entire NFL for years instead of just picking random situations that back up your point.

John Harbaugh decided to go with Flacco as his starter until an injury forced his hand.  And Flacco has not been a good QB in years.  Since 2015 he has an 82.7 passer rating with only 64 tds in 51 games.  To compare him to Dalton I will just go back to '16 so no one will accuse me of cherry picking Dalton's best season.  Flacco had a 82.6 passer rating and only 50 tds in 41 games.  In just 2 more games (43) Dalton had 14 more tds (64) and a 89.4 passer rating.


And anyone who can provide a quote from 2 years ago saying Mahomes will throw 50 tds in 2018 can step forward and crow about what Reid has done, but the fact is many highly rated QBs flop.  Especially if they are forced to play behind a leaky offensive line.


Here is a number I will probably be bringing up a lot....Since the 2011 draft when we got Dalton there have been 25 QBs taken in the first round.  Only five of those 25 have a career passer rating higher than Andy Dalton.  Close to half of them (11 of 25) have career passer ratings in the 60 and 70's.  It is not going to be near as easy to replace him as some people seem to think.

(12-14-2018, 03:22 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Yep, explains that I have worked with his foundation and see that he's actually a quality human being. 

And a solid Football player 

He was drafted in the second round as a player that needs assets around him. He was never taken to be a Baker, a Manning or any of those. 

I believe you are correct that you will not find more of a quality human being than Andy Dalton. I also believe Andy has been a solid football player. I also believe that Andy was drafted with that same intent. I also believe that team Andy needed was in 2015. That team is no longer here! 

(12-14-2018, 02:53 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton is #1 in the league in td receptions by a QB since he has been a starter (8 seasons).








1/2

LOL.....I do recall that.  I will say that I am in the minority around here wanting Hue for OC.  We were quite creative under him, I felt.  As you noted, he was really creative the year AJ, MLJ, Eifert, and others went down and we still managed a 10-6 record.  Of course, the defense was pretty good that year too.....until we got to Indy.

In fact, let's go here in respect to Passer rating

2011 - Dalton 80.4, NFL Average 84.3
2012 - Dalton 87.4, NFL Average 85.6
2013 - Dalton 88.8, NFL Average 86.0
2014 - Dalton 83.5, NFL Average 88.9
2015 - Dalton 106.2, NFL Average 90.2
2016 - Dalton 91.8, NFL Average 89.3
2017 - Dalton 86.6, NFL Average 89.8
2018 - Dalton 89.6, NFL Average 93.8

4 years above average. 4 years below average. About as average as one can get.

In 2.5 games Driskel's rating is 89.8, .2 better than Dalton this year, though he has played no games with AJ Green.
Driskel also brings better escapability and adds a running threat which passer rating doesn't factor in to the rating number.

But this kid is garbage as so many want to say? He threw for less than 200 yards blah blah blah. News flash, your beloved Dalton threw for less than 200 yards 9 times as a rookie in 2011. This kid has played 2.5 games. He has the size, arm strength, and athleticism to give defenses problems. Measurables aren't everything, but they certainly do matter.

If after 8 years of Dalton you don't know what you are going to get from him, then I don't know what to tell you. You're going to get AVERAGE, and I am sick of that around here. This team is going to have to take a step back to go forward. Let Driskel play next year and see if you can develop him. He has the tools.