(12-16-2018, 09:05 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: People believed that because the stats backed it up. And the heart and soul stuff, general of the defense, etc, mostly came from his coaches and teammates. Not fans.

But I guess you guys got your wish. Nick Vigil is now our best LB...

His stats were great, of course. But our defense rarely completely fell apart without him, nor did they become an unstoppable force with him.

My wish was to cut/trade Burfict years ago and sign an accomplished vet, as well and draft his replacement at some point.

Trust me, I did not get my wish.

(12-16-2018, 09:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yes you were.

This season proved otherwise but sure, whatever you say

(12-16-2018, 09:09 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: His stats were great, of course. But our defense rarely completely fell apart without him, nor did they become an unstoppable force with him.

My wish was to cut/trade Burfict years ago and sign an accomplished vet, as well and draft his replacement at some point.

Trust me, I did not get my wish.

I meant the stats of yds and points difference between with or without him. In his prime, for a few years there, he made everyone around him better.

(12-16-2018, 09:12 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I meant the stats of yds and points difference between with or without him. In his prime, for a few years there, he made everyone around him better.

Yes, but not since 2015

(12-16-2018, 09:12 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: This season proved otherwise but sure, whatever you say

Prime Ray Lewis wouldn’t have fixed Austin’s d earlier this year.

As a person that has been a huge fan and proponent of The Super Destroyer through the years, even I must admit that it's time to put him down. Still, to this day, I don't think the hit on AB in the playoff game was a penalty, but I digress.. Vontaze has played the game with all of the heart and enthusiasm that it's founders intended it to be. Unfortunately, this guy has literally beat himself up, in an attempt to make this team great.

He's lost "it", though if you ask him, he'd likely deny that until he dies.

It's time to move forward, and hopefully VB sees it too and knows that it's time to retire.

(12-16-2018, 09:14 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Yes, but not since 2015

He was still playing well under Guenther as recently as last year.

(12-16-2018, 09:14 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Prime Ray Lewis wouldn’t have fixed Austin’s d earlier this year.

Austin had little to do with Burfict falling apart, missing games due to suspensions or being overrated by this fanbase

(12-16-2018, 09:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was still playing well under Guenther as recently as last year.

Well, yes. But he wasn’t some invincible game changer that many make him out to be.

He’s overrated and not worth the baggage IMO.

(12-16-2018, 09:24 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Austin had little to do with Burfict falling apart, missing games due to suspensions or being overrated by this fanbase

Definitely not blaming Austin for Burfict’s game falling off, just pointing out it was unrealistic to expect one guy to fix such a terrible defense. Even if he had come back playing well.

(12-16-2018, 09:24 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Austin had little to do with Burfict falling apart, missing games due to suspensions or being overrated by this fanbase

(12-16-2018, 09:27 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Well, yes. But he wasn’t some invincible game changer that many make him out to be.

He’s overrated and not worth the baggage IMO.

Sounds to me like you never really liked him that well, to begin with.  Maybe fishing is a better sport for you?  

(12-16-2018, 10:20 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sounds to me like you never really liked him that well, to begin with.  Maybe fishing is a better sport for you?  

Actually no. I was a HUGE Burfict fan and defender prior to his 2015 playoff debacle. He was pretty much the only player on this team that wasn’t intimidated the Steelers or their BS. But I’ll freely admit, that playoff game did it for me. I was done with him then and I was surprised many didn’t share the same sentiment. I was tired of his antics, I was tired of him constantly earning his reputation, and I was tired of the negative publicity (as if we didn’t have enough of it already ). I didn’t see many positives to keeping him around with all that baggage.

Meanwhile, Burfict has played in less games than he could/should have since. Be it for one reason or another (fair suspension or not): he has been unreliable. I saw no real benefit to making an unreliable player the cornerstone of our defense.

Fast forward a few years and it turns out me and a few others were on to something.

Although yes, I do enjoy fishing (but I wouldn’t go and call that a sport )

(12-16-2018, 09:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Definitely not blaming Austin for Burfict’s game falling off, just pointing out it was unrealistic to expect one guy to fix such a terrible defense. Even if he had come back playing well.

I never expected him to

(12-16-2018, 10:31 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Actually no. I was a HUGE Burfict fan and defender prior to his 2015 playoff debacle. He was pretty much the only player on this team that wasn’t intimidated the Steelers or their BS. But I’ll freely admit, that playoff game did it for me. I was done with him then and I was surprised many didn’t share the same sentiment. I was tired of his antics, I was tired of him constantly earning his reputation, and I was tired of the negative publicity (as if we didn’t have enough of it already ). I didn’t see many positives to keeping him around with all that baggage.

Meanwhile, Burfict has played in less games than he could/should have since. Be it for one reason or another (fair suspension or not): he has been unreliable. I saw no real benefit to making an unreliable player the cornerstone of our defense.

Fast forward a few years and it turns out me and a few others were on to something.

Although yes, I do enjoy fishing (but I wouldn’t go and call that a sport )

AJ Green's been pretty unreliable the last 3 seasons too. You and the others ready to move off of him too.

Yeah Burfict has fallen off THIS year. Until this year he's been the best LB on the team since he arrived, and it's not even close. I don't pay close enough attention to who posts what about who, and when they do it, but if you were wanting to move on from him in 2016, that was silly... It's like someone saying that the Patriots should've moved on from Brady in 2016 because his play has slipped this year.

I think Burfict knows that after the hit JU-JU put on him that he will never be the same. The old Burfict would have to be handcuffed to the bench to be kept out of a game no matter how hard the hit. It's sad that he will have to go out like this but maybe he should have walked away a few years back when the concussions started. We fans will find a new gladiator . Hopefully Vontaze will find a new passion that fulfills him. To those who want to crucify him for that 2015 Playoff loss he was the one who almost single handily won the game.

You just compare burfict to Brady?

Well this conversations over cause you crazy.

(12-16-2018, 11:25 PM)jason Wrote: AJ Green's been pretty unreliable the last 3 seasons too. You and the others ready to move off of him too.

Yeah Burfict has fallen off THIS year. Until this year he's been the best LB on the team since he arrived, and it's not even close. I don't pay close enough attention to who posts what about who, and when they do it, but if you were wanting to move on from him in 2016, that was silly... It's like someone saying that the Patriots should've moved on from Brady in 2016 because his play has slipped this year.

.... w.... wow

Well, first off, comparing the likes of Burfict to Brady is beyond asinine. Brady actually is the heart and soul of that team and plays the most important position in the field. Burfict is just a highly talented linebacker. Not even close to the same thing.

Second, I mostly wanted Burfict off the team because he was always attracting trouble and negative publicity. I never had a problem with his skills because obviously he was our best defensive player. But he wasn’t worth all the negativity and bad juju he brought to the team (no pun intended).

The team clearly relied on Burfict and that was a silly mistake IMO. I would much rather the team had looked for his replacement years ago because the writing was always on the wall with Burfict: he’s not a reliable player. Yet they stubbornly refused to acknowledge that.

(12-16-2018, 01:17 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mounting concussions scary aspect of Vontaze Burfict's uncertain future - Paul Dehner, Jr

For the third consecutive December, Vontaze Burfict suffered a concussion and is forced to the sideline as the Bengals play out the string of a sideways season.

The concussion Burfict suffered on Dec. 2 against Denver was the sixth of the controversial linebacker’s career.

Injuries can be random and unpreventable at times, but it’s hard not to spot the trend of three years in a row and what should be a mounting concern over it.

In 2016, Burfict suffered a concussion on Dec. 18 against Pittsburgh and missed the final two weeks.

In 2017, Burfict suffered a concussion on Dec. 4, also against Pittsburgh via a hit from JuJu Smith-Schuster. He did return three weeks later against Detroit but hurt his shoulder to end his season.

He’ll now miss his second consecutive game with a concussion this weekend against Oakland. He didn’t travel to Los Angeles last week. While other players with concussions have worked their way back on the practice fields like Tony McRae and Michael Johnson – both questionable for Sunday -- Burfict is yet to make an appearance out there during a practice as a non-participant in every session since.

It brings up the scary aspect of mounting brain injuries.

“It’s got to be personal with the player,” Marvin Lewis said. “The thing with concussions, it works through the doctors and medical staff and they have to handle it in their protocol. They’ve taken it out of the hands of the coach, which is good. It is where it is right now, it’s not going to go backward.”

Burfict, 28, has played seven NFL seasons and sustained a concussion in five of the last six, including back-to-back weeks at the beginning of 2014. Back then, when asked by Enquirer columnist Paul Daugherty if he’s concerned for Burfict as a person, Lewis pointed out his history with concussions and how things are different with the focus on the issue.

“I coached defenses and linebackers for a long time and concussions didn't linger,” Lewis said then. “Now we have found that because of the media and things they seem to linger longer. There's a lot of attention paid to it. I don't know why they linger longer. I don't remember them lingering like they do now."

He admitted Friday he tries to stay away from wading into those waters, specifically in a question about Burfict.

“I don’t comment on concussions because I played a lot of football and had a lot of concussions and never had one last, so I don’t know,” Lewis said. “I don’t understand. But that’s just my opinion.”

With uncertainty across the organization entering another offseason of potential change in reaction to this disappointing year, Burfict’s future in Cincinnati is a talking point. The 6-foot-1, 255-pound former undrafted free agent saw his play on the field endure a significant dip in production and league philosophy is sprinting away from 250-plus pound linebackers.

Pro Football Focus logged Burfict with 18 made tackles, 12 assisted and 12 missed this season. His career numbers show the stark drop off. 


[*]Year: Total tackles // missed tackles

[*]2012: 114 // 7
[*]2013: 156 // 9
[*]2014: 27 // 5
[*]2015: 72 // 7
[*]2016: 99 // 13
[*]2017: 69 // 8
[*]2018: 30 // 12

Those factors make the suspensions, fines, injuries, penalties and distractions tougher to justify. Burfict is signed through the 2020 season. Letting him go this offseason would apply a hit of $1.8 million in dead money, but save $6.8 million overall against the salary cap.

[*]

He is not reliable to be in shape, and he is not reliable to be on the field.  Time for him to go.  One of the most dominant LBs I have ever seen in his prime, but he simply doesn't prepare his body as needed to stay on top in this league.  

I am betting on at least two LBs drafted next year, and they will also likely look for an outside veteran to sign.  

(12-16-2018, 09:01 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: People were telling me he was “the heart and soul of the defense” and that his presence was crucial to the success of the defense, despite the fact that he seldom played.

Burfict has been unreliable, be it due to injuries or suspensions. I saw no benefit in hanging our hat on a guy like that. He was overrated by fans IMO. Our defense didn’t live and die with Burfict like many believe. He wasn’t worth the baggage.

he feels the same way about all of you winebags that know NOTHING about him or his capabilities! Why not just STFU and root for the team we have with or without Burfict!!!

I think he's done soon. A couple of years ago Mike Brown told someone I know that his body is in as bad a shape as any player he has seen.