(12-17-2018, 04:43 PM)Synric Wrote: It's inconsistent footwork. 

Andy has one of the fastest releases in the NFL, accurate, great ball placement, and one of the better prepared snap QBs.

But...he will rush his footwork in the pocket especially if he's getting pressured consistently.

I can agree with that. Then again, after watching Driskel, I feel like Dalton could be a ballet performer with his feet.

I think some of that can be blamed on the offensive line. Something Romo pointed out. Dalton has lost trust in his offensive line.

(12-17-2018, 04:43 PM)Synric Wrote: It's inconsistent footwork. 

Andy has one of the fastest releases in the NFL, accurate, great ball placement, and one of the better prepared snap QBs.

But...he will rush his footwork in the pocket especially if he's getting pressured consistently.

Happy feet. I’d say that’s spot on. He’s also not great throwing outside the numbers.

(12-17-2018, 04:36 PM)Synric Wrote: You didn't answer the question.

Saying he has to have top talent doesn't explain what part of Andy Dalton game keeps him from being a top 5 QB. Every Quarterback is better with more talent around them.

What part of Andy Dalton game keeps him out of that top 5 QB conversation?

What do you think does. He's not very good. He is inaccurate with a lot of throws, sailing them high or under throwing them, he's inconsistent, he doesn't go throw his progressions like a top qb, his deep ball is questionable , he has panic tendencies when he's pressured, he's not a big game qb as evidenced by his four bad playoff games. 

He can be good if he's in a groove. The problem is he needs all his weapons and a good offensive line. His inconsistency is his biggest problem. One good game. One bad game. If Dalton could string together mostly good games then he'd be in the top 10.

He's below average and that probably won't change considering he's going to be 32 and had 8 years in the league. 

(12-17-2018, 04:44 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: AJ Green has a long ways to go before his stats are HOF worthy.

Calling him "first ballot" is homerism at best.

14,000 yards seems to be the current threshold, and there are guys with 15,000 yards who have waited many years. AJ Green is currently at 8,904 yards and will turn 31 years old before next year. Not only is he a long shot for 14k yards, it's no lock that he breaks Chad's franchise record of 10,783 yards. Especially if he keeps getting hurt.

AJ will play until he's in his late 30's. He's got 5 more years as a good wide out. Plus a couple years past his prime. That's at least another 7 thousand yards. That would put him at around 16 thousand yards when hes finished. 

(12-17-2018, 04:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: AJ will play until he's in his late 30's. He's got 5 more years as a good wide out. Plus a couple years past his prime. That's at least another 7 thousand yards. That would put him at around 16 thousand yards when hes finished. 

Let the guy wake up in the morning. Sheesh. 

(12-17-2018, 04:45 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: What do you think does. He's not very good. He is inaccurate with a lot of throws, sailing them high or under throwing them, he's inconsistent, he doesn't go throw his progressions like a top qb, his deep ball is questionable , he has panic tendencies when he's pressured, he's not a big game qb as evidenced by his four bad playoff games. 

He can be good if he's in a groove. The problem is he needs all his weapons and a good offensive line. His inconsistency is his biggest problem. One good game. One bad game. If Dalton could string together mostly good games then he'd be in the top 10.

He's below average and that probably won't change considering hes 32 and had 8 years in the league. 

Driskel is a third year QB and he sucks. That probably won’t change, either.

(12-17-2018, 04:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: AJ will play until he's in his late 30's. He's got 5 more years as a good wide out. Plus a couple years past his prime. That's at least another 7 thousand yards. That would put him at around 16 thousand yards when hes finished. 

Ok.

(12-17-2018, 04:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: AJ will play until he's in his late 30's. He's got 5 more years as a good wide out. Plus a couple years past his prime. That's at least another 7 thousand yards. That would put him at around 16 thousand yards when hes finished. 

That would put him behind only Jerry Rice and Larry Fitzgerald lol

(12-17-2018, 04:24 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote:  Dalton is below average.

No he is not.

His passer rating is 17th among 44 active QBs with at least 750 attempts.

If you lower the threshold to 500 attempts then he is 19th out of 50.

He is 13th among active QBs in career passing yards and tds.

Since he entered the league in 2011 he is second among all QBs in rushing tds, 4th quarter comebacks, and 4th quarter game winning drives.

And among those 44 active QBs with at least 750 attempts Dalton's "Fumble Percentage" (fumbles/pass att + rush att + sacks) was third lowest (at the beginning of this season)


There is no way you can say he is below average by any measure.

(12-17-2018, 04:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he is not.

His passer rating is 17th among 44 active QBs with at least 750 attempts.

If you lower the threshold to 500 attempts then he is 19th out of 50.

He is 13th among active QBs in career passing yards and tds.

Since he entered the league in 2011 he is second among all QBs in rushing tds, 4th quarter comebacks, and 4th quarter game winning drives.

And among those 44 active QBs with at least 750 attempts Dalton's "Fumble Percentage" (fumbles/pass att + rush att + sacks) was third lowest (at the beginning of this season)


There is no way you can say he is below average by any measure.

Stop using only active qb's. Use all qb's in the last 8 years. Some of those qb's you are counting are back up qb's . Were talking starters only who have thrown over 750 times, and have played in the past 8 years. 

He's got an average ranking of 17 out of 32 among starters in the past 8 years. His playoff games drops his ranking to about 22 out of 32. 

He's had 4 horrid playoff games with his rankings in the 50's. 

If were looking at this years starters he's 25th out of 32. 

If youre looking at career yards then lets see in 5 years where he ranks with all the young good qb's in the league who will be putting up huge numbers.

Your numbers don't look at past qb's like Peyton Manning or current good qb's like Mahomes. You cherry pick those stats to fit your argument. 

(12-17-2018, 05:01 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Stop using only active qb's. Use all qb's in the last 8 years. Some of those qb's you are counting are back up qb's . Were talking starters only who have thrown over 750 times, and have played in the past 8 years. 

He's got an average ranking of 17 out of 32 among starters in the past 8 years. His playoff games drops his ranking to about 22 out of 32. 

If were looking at this years starters he's 25th out of 32. 

Right.

Forgot 750 attempts isn't a lot.

(12-17-2018, 04:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Happy feet. I’d say that’s spot on. He’s also not great throwing outside the numbers.

Agree.  The happy feet seemed to have vanished in 2015, and a good part into 2016, it has returned, although it was a little better this year. At least early on.

As to the 2nd part, that is clearly his weakness on deep throws.  He is strong deep up the seams, yet we quit attacking them the minute Eifert goes down, and try to hit John Ross or AJ deep down the sidelines.  Makes no sense.  Coach to your players' strengths.

ADs inconsistency turns him into average QB. Much like Cousins, who can light a team up one week, then step on his d*** the next.

(12-17-2018, 05:04 PM)Wyche Wrote: Agree.  The happy feet seemed to have vanished in 2015, and a good part into 2016, it has returned, although it was a little better this year. At least early on.

As to the 2nd part, that is clearly his weakness on deep throws.  He is strong deep up the seams, yet we quit attacking them the minute Eifert goes down, and try to hit John Ross or AJ deep down the sidelines.  Makes no sense.  Coach to your players' strengths.

Coach.

Keyword here.

Coach. 

(12-17-2018, 05:06 PM)SladeX Wrote: ADs inconsistency turns him into average QB. Much like Cousins, who can light a team up one week, then step on his d*** the next.

Who is also paid 12 million more.

And yet put up one more win that Dalton.

With a more complete unit. Better defense. Better passing attack. Etc. 

Cousins is my favorite comparison and a good reason why I stand behind Dalton. 

(12-17-2018, 04:45 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: , he doesn't go throw his progressions like a top qb, 

Yes he does

(12-17-2018, 04:45 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote:  his deep ball is questionable , 

wrong again

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

Dalton’s 2017 deep passer rating clocked in at a 90. That may not register as impressive or not until I tell you that only seven quarterbacks had better ratings in 2017

Dalton’s deep passer rating rank from 2006-2016 was a 95.3, which should be shocking for fans who badmouthed him that whole time. Only nine current quarterbacks had a better deep passer rating over that same span, including Roethlisberger who beat him by 0.5.

(12-17-2018, 04:45 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: What do you think does. He's not very good. He is inaccurate with a lot of throws, sailing them high or under throwing them, he's inconsistent, he doesn't go throw his progressions like a top qb, his deep ball is questionable , he has panic tendencies when he's pressured, he's not a big game qb as evidenced by his four bad playoff games. 

He can be good if he's in a groove. The problem is he needs all his weapons and a good offensive line. His inconsistency is his biggest problem. One good game. One bad game. If Dalton could string together mostly good games then he'd be in the top 10.

He's below average and that probably won't change considering he's going to be 32 and had 8 years in the league. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2017

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2017/11/22/andy-dalton-is-one-of-nfls-best-when-pressured/

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2018/10/09/pff-dive-daltons-pressure-points-roethlisbergers-deep-dip/1581728002/

The last article shows that may have been true early in his career, but lately, it's just another narrative debunked.

(12-17-2018, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes he does



wrong again

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize

Dalton’s 2017 deep passer rating clocked in at a 90. That may not register as impressive or not until I tell you that only seven quarterbacks had better ratings in 2017

Dalton’s deep passer rating rank from 2006-2016 was a 95.3, which should be shocking for fans who badmouthed him that whole time. Only nine current quarterbacks had a better deep passer rating over that same span, including Roethlisberger who beat him by 0.5.

Do I have to explain this again. Number one, his deep ball rating  is inflated because of Green. 

Number two, it should not be used because it puts heavy emphasis on where it is thrown. He went 3 for 16 with 2 Td one year and the deep ball rating was 105. 

Three, there isn't enough data on deep throws, if you add them all up it's maybe 4 games worth of deep throws 

(12-17-2018, 05:17 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Do I have to explain this again. Number one, his deep ball rating  is inflated because of Green. 

Number two, it should not be used because it puts heavy emphasis on where it is thrown. He went 3 for 16 with 2 Td one year and the deep ball rating was 105. 

Three, there isn't enough data on deep throws, if you add them all up it's maybe 4 games worth of deep throws 

AJ is a great deep ball receiver....but Andy still has to accurately throw it to him.

You can't have one without the other.

(12-17-2018, 05:17 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Do I have to explain this again. Number one, his deep ball rating  is inflated because of Green. 

Number two, it should not be used because it puts heavy emphasis on where it is thrown. He went 3 for 16 with 2 Td one year and the deep ball rating was 105. 

Three, there isn't enough data on deep throws, if you add them all up it's maybe 4 games worth of deep throws 

Do you have the numbers to prove it is all AJ Green?

Also, do you watch the Bengals play? How many deep balls do we throw a game?